John-in-KC

Have you considered: - Ongoing virtual meetings, using a social utility such as facebook? Our young men know and accept these things far better than we. It allows your Chapter Chief constant communication with his TRs and the Arrowmen "out there." - Unit visits, where the Chapter leaders come and visit the Arrowmen of 1 or more units, bringing program opportunities with them? Yes, it means travel for the young Chief and his program chairman, but face to face can be a good thing. - Special interest activities, some of which may be "out there," but have enough FUN and CHALLENGE in them the youth want to leave town. Truth be told, the business meeting of a chapter meeting can be pretty boring. The more you can jazz it up, the more enthused the young men will be.

Short answer: Yes. Longer answer: The one time you may change positions without a new app is recharter. My council accepts Scouters, with their membership card AND the Merit Badge Counselor application, as MBCs.

First, If the unit is participating in a vended activity at a commercial pool where the vendor provides all support services and assumes the risk, then the need for Scout/Scouter BSA Lifeguards is eliminated. You are giving operational control of the unit to the vendor. Boldface bullet 4 of Safe Swim Defense, and the comments on "pool and surf swimming" do dovetail with each other. Source: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/gss02.html#d Watercraft activities: There is no slack, be the unit under total management of a guide firm and its support services, or it be doing the activity on its own. There are mandates to the minimum acceptable numbers of trained adults and youth. From my experience with my Council, to obtain a watercraft based Tour Permit, you have to concurrently file the Float Plan. This may not be true in other councils.

In my lodge, staff cabins are reserved for cooks, lodge advisers (who are running LEC meetings to 1AM or later) and selected youth (who also tend to be up doing business to 1AM or later). The paying campers (well, we ALL pay, but the troops bringing Arrowmen and Candidates)... get the campgrounds. It makes a bit of sense, actually. I help cook for our Lodge. I''m out of bed and at the kitchen by 0500 to feed hundreds of Arrowmen, Scouts and Scouters at 0715. Staff Village is a designated "quiet area."

Beardad, Welcome to the forums. Self-chartering, since 1910, has been the antithesis of how Scouting goes out into the community. Simply put, SCouting is designed to provide a youth serving program in support of community organizations. In fact, IIRC, this is part of how Congress gave BSA its charter in 1917. (Can one of our Scouting historians validate that last?) One objection I have to self-chartering is that units can and do have bad days, and divide in anger. Too often, I''ve seen a unit that HAS, and a unit that HAS NOTHING. This is wrong. What''s the backstory here?

That Congressman in Louisiana. The ones in California... Ted Stevens maybe up in Alaska. There are some bad actors in Congress, no matter which party we are talking about. Please, I would like to check party discussions at the door. There is nothing which prevents Congress from creating its own rules to implement Article I, Section 6 of the Constitution. What we need are 535 Members to sit down, shut up, decide what the Moral High Road looks like, and enshrine it. Too bad that simple sentence is so complex for those 535 we elect. For many of us, the end of the day is: - Does my Congressman bring home the $$$ to my district? - Does he/she agree with my hot-button issue? - Has he/she done something stupid? There are many honorable Congresspeople. Ike Skelton and Sam Graves, both of Missouri, are Eagle Scouts and continue active in their local Councils. I just wish I had the formula which brought all Congress people to the gut-checks of the Scout Oath, Law, Motto, and Slogan. So much for Walter Mitty today.

Lisa, From a parental POV, your point back to me is entrely worthy!! Gern, US Constitution, Artile I, Section 6: http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-experience/charters/constitution_transcript.html Section. 6. The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States. They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place. Boldface for emphasis only

Mr Anderson, You have three basic options: - Do nothing, let yourself be steamrollered. - Do something within the Pack as an agent of change. This may or may not be high energy working with the adults, diverting energy from the youth. - Do something, such as taking your Den away from this Cubmaster. This is the only Pack in town? I know of very few towns over 2000 population which have only one Pack. Good time on the range to you. Breathe, RELAX, aim and squeeze.

Pack 378, Heavens yes, because with a bit more effort, a Cub goes from a belt loop for one of the Sports and Academics activities to an Activity Pin. A Scout, no matter which program, should get every bit of recognition he (or Venturing she) properly deserves!!!

Aren't clarity and feedback good things Gern!? I see your point, and I will clarify: The community has a legitimate public health (and economic, since the public health costs $$$) interest in minimizing opportunities for unprotected sexual contact and consequent spread of STD. On the proactive side, this includes the use of barrier devices and abstinence. On the reactive and perhaps coercive side, this includes proscribing various forms of "hooking up," including bath-houses and bathrooms. Does that make more sense? You don't have to agree, but is my thesis clearer?

Gern, On one part I'll agree with you: I see no professional ethical issue on Senator Craig's part, and why the Senate is investigating is beyond me. On what he is alleged to have done: Unprotected M/M sex was a tremendous factor in the initial spread of HIV and AIDS. Even now, unprotected sex outside wedlock is a statistically significant factor in the worldwide spread of HIV and AIDS (both homo and hetero sexual activity). Society, at the community or city level, to my mind, has a legitimate public health interest in keeping the spread of a disease that is: - Exceptionally expensive to treat. - Untreated nearly uniformly fatal. - Known to mutate to stronger variants. I still would gladly say to Senator Craig: If you are innocent, you should have fought it. You chose otherwise, face your consequences. This man is a US SENATOR. He is an agent of change in the laws of our land. For him to play yes/no/maybe/I don't like your decision, I want a re-run is anathema to me as a citizen and voter. He's done a fair bit to demonstrate the upper tier of our society have a healthy lack of respect for the rule of law, even more than Paris Hilton. Senator Craig should be thankful I am not a resident of Idaho. He'd be one vote down.

By the way Cubbing does business, the DL has to be the first line of advancement, obtaining info for the Pack committee person. The Pack person consolidates the info into a single Advancement Report for the Program Officer's (Cubmasters) signature. From my experience base, Council Registrars I've met won't accept an Advancement Report over the Den Leaders signature. Anyone know differently?

Yep, saw it again in the activity bar Time is 804PM CDT Wednesday the 5th.

First and foremost, the Tour Permit is a PROCESS AID, not a "check-a-block." It's designed to support the SM, the Committee, and (if they're mature enough to work it) the PLC as you plan events. Much of the information you can archive to a master (such as a driver's file), then you slice out the drivers who will not participate. Ditto making sure you have the right numbers of trained adults. Tour permits cover operations of a unit FROM a gathering place, TO one or more destinations, and final return TO the gathering place. I have seen units put the responsibility on families to get kids TO the activity site, it being the gathering place. I've seen units gather at their meeting site and travel under TP to a site. Beyond the unit, the Tour Permit is an assurance to your Chartered Partner that you have done your homework. Remember, BSA liability insurance protects the Chartered Partner from your actions... it also protects you the leader, but its first purpose is to protect the partner. Tour Permits are definitely an area where a member of the Professional Service (DE, Field Director, or SE) can help you. As a backup, a Commissioner should also be able to help you. Finally, yours or a neighboring Council should offer supplemental training such as "University of Scouting" now and again. Trip planning is a fairly typical class!

Steve, Contact your Lodge Adviser; ask for the contact info for the Dance Team chairman for the Lodge. The worst two things which can happen are "Sorry, we're already booked that night" or "Sorry, there isn't a dance team at the moment." I advocate though, rather than this being just a crossover event, make it the prime program of a B/G banquet.

At least his official bio does not reflect him having been an Eagle Scout... The politicians and the newsies wonder why the American public is so cynical and jaded. All they need to do is look at this tawdry episode (and I don't mean what may have happened in the latrine). In his actions at the Bar of Justice, this guy shows his contempt for our criminal justice system ... and he's one of the agents of change. Unlike you and I, he CAN make a difference. Senator Craig has crossed a boundary with his waffling on resignation. He is now a thief of perfectly good oxygen.

E, Be it band, drama club, or a Sea Scout Ship, youth want a place where there is mutual respect, a bit of competition, and a lot of friendly fun. Take the time to do a full inventory with the folk you have. Set aside your vision; let them develop their collective vision. Allow them to adjust the vision as they need to, year to year. You saw it with OJ on camp staff, as I did with Eagle Son on camp staff... staff becomes family because they are together 24/7 for an extended period of time. You can replicate that through consistent fun and challenging activities, be they nautical related, or be they a road rally. They're almost adults... let them do some of the guiding.. Most of them will surprise you

Scott, Don't worry, you didn't start a war... at least until Brianbuf/Jambo shows his (ahem) again. I've watched my lodge in action now for five years. I've seen great young men enter the Order and do great things. I've seen an array of women selected for membership by their units; I've also seen them step up to the plate and serve an array of associate adviser jobs, at chapter and lodge level. OA belongs to the Boy Scout Division of BSA. It's not going to be opened to young women anytime soon. Finally, to Marktrail... relax and enjoy Scouting as it comes to you now, as an adult supporting the program. It really will be a grand journey. ICS.

Mr Anderson, Please PM me. Somehow, this does not sound like Pack 1, Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Even so, I want to be sure. I'm retired from Mother Army, and have access to other volunteers who are also retired from Mother Army. At the very least, we can co-miserate with you. Depending on where you are stationed, I cannot believe your Pack is the only one in the area. If you have a micromanaging battalion XO who wants to run the whole program, the best thing may be to take your Den and sign on to another Pack. There's also the option of having a quiet word with your Installion DPCA/Youth Activities folks. They're always interested when someone is acting out and not helping kids have great program. PM me, pls.

Has anyone thought of asking the local OA Lodge about their dance team? Many Lodges have great teams, and would deeply appreciate the donation you would have paid a professional entertainer.

Vicki said, "The point being that our society is losing its way across the board. The belief that breaches of trust and honor (using Pack's words, they fit) are irrelevant somehow seems to be gaining hold. The loss of an understanding that without trust and honor, no matter what our core beliefs, we are nothing. In our efforts to promote our own ideologies and defend those who espouse them we are losing sight of the fact that ideology isn't everything." Vicki, thank you! That says an awful lot about us these days, very eloquently. John

Yep. Time is 840AM Monday 3 September 2007 www dot xvgaoke dot cn slash 1 dot htm is the page which tries to open. I'm starting to be glad I don't log in, rather just invoke name and password for each post.

First, I did my first 50 miler when I was 12 years old. That's right, 12. I did my second a year later and my third a year after that. There's nothing that says a properly equipped and conditioned youngster cannot do it, other than Philmont's age restriction. BTW, that appears to be rationing device, just like the draw is! Part of the desire came from other kids and their fantastic slides (real kodachrome and ektachrome (tms)) of the backcountry. Part of it came from not wanting to be bored at Scout Camp. How does the song go? "Anything you can do I can do better?" Challenge them! They just might surprise you.

FScouter, If he's talking to the special needs, as defined by BSA Requirements #33215, then he needs to go back and re-read them, to wit: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/32215/earlyalt.html Boldface denotes policy: A Scout who is unable to complete any or all of the requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank because he is physically or mentally disabled may complete alternative requirements if the following criteria are met: The physical or mental disability must be of a permanent rather than a temporary nature. Note the word permanent. A clear and concise medical statement concerning the Scout's disabilities must be submitted by a physician licensed to practice medicine. In the alternative, an evaluation statement certified by an educational administrator may be submitted. The medical statement must state the doctor's opinion that the Scout cannot complete the requirement(s) because of a permanent disability. The Scout, his parents, or leaders must submit to the council advancement committee, a written request that the Scout be allowed to complete alternate requirements for Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank. The request must explain the suggested alternate requirements in sufficient detail so as to allow the advancement committee to make a decision. The request must also include the medical statement required in paragraph two above. The written request for alternate requirements must be submitted to and approved by the local council prior to completing alternate requirements. The Scout must complete as many of the regular requirements as his ability permits before applying for alternate requirements. The alternate requirements must be of such a nature that they are as demanding of effort as the regular requirements. When alternate requirements involve physical activity, they must be approved by the physician. The unit leader and any board of review must explain that to attain Tenderfoot, Second Class, or First Class rank a candidate is expected to do his best in developing himself to the limit of his resources. The written request must be approved by the council advancement committee, utilizing the expertise of professional persons involved in Scouting for disabled youth. The decision of the council advancement committee should be recorded and delivered to the Scout and his leader. As far as taking them to Fortress Benning, is this a decision of the SM or the PLC? If the SM, we need to talk about why the youth, in the form of the PLC, are not making program decisions under the mentorship of the Scoutmaster. As far as fitness goes, let's work on things that can be FUN. Has anyone thought about the level of effort for Cycling Merit Badge? That will take the boys some work to do! "Physiclly strong" does not mean world class athletes out of 11 year olds. It means using the Outdoors Method of Scouting to give them opportunities for lifelong physical fitness, be they on the HS football team, in the marching band, or hiking the backwoods of Appalachia. Eat the elephant one bite at a time. Let's get the kids through the fitness requirements for Tenderfoot and for 2d/1st Class swimming, then we can worry about other things. BTW, welcome to our campfire, GaHillBilly.

I'll help with one: The Tribe of Mic-O-Say is local to the Heart of America and the Pony Express Councils (KC and St Joe).