John-in-KC

ES07... Yep.

Lisa, since you're a BobWhite, you may wear your Gilwell Necker. Of course, if it's as hot in MI as it is in MO, you're probably going to leave the Gilwell necker at home, and just wear the beads. I think 90F approaches an upper limit for choosing to wear the Gilwell...

B, We have a unique challenge in our Council. We have a very strong OA Lodge (we induct on the order of 800 Ordeal members, and we seal membership on about 600 Brotherhood members annually). We also have a very strong honor society for Boy Scouts at the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation (Mic-o-Say). Both are reasons why a relatively small metropolitian area (we are nearly the smallest MLB and NFL market) camps over 10,000 youth and adults just at Boy Scout Camp each year. Our challenge is we don't have something to recognize our young women Venturers who serve on staff at our two camps. They have to wait until they are 21. These young women understand "Cheerful Service" better than most "dues-paying" Arrowmen. The dilemma is how to honor them. Eagle son finished his staff job last week. He then went from one Reservation to the other, from being Staff to being a camper, at our summer Venturing Blast (what a schedule: Up, breakfast, lakefront, lunch, craft work, POOL, dinner, POOL, bed... those are his own words) The Council VOA met at Blast. Working with the volunteer Scouters (an experienced bunch, mind you) who were unit leaders and staffers, the VOA came up with the idea. The youth have already approached our Council Director of Support Services for guidance and support ... and he's agreed to give it. There's the backstory... it's something coming from the young adults, now, as I asked at the beginning of this thread... If you have practical experience in implementing the Corps Of Discovery program within your Crew, District, Council, or higher, please PM me so we can converse offlist.

All, Eagle son's boss at Scout Camp is a Mormon and a District Commissioner in our Council. I will ask her. Give me a few days. Yes, there are LDS adults who participate in traditional Scouting. There are also LDS Scouters who've seen the value of traditional Scouting and work very hard to bring the whole package their youth.

It doesn't matter which book the requirement is in. It doesn't matter what we think of the requirement. The requirement is there. We neither add to, nor take from, the requirements. So... we stop whining, and start training our youth so they can get the requirement done. If you think of it as a tool to help our youth communicate with their peers, it makes a tad of sense. Considering how much time our youth spend on Nintendo, X-Box, myspace and facebook, a bit of mandated oral communication isn't the end of the world! As to BSA Supply Division... well, I've already registered my thoughts on it above.

This is identically posted here in Venturing and at OA. If you have practical experience in implementing the Corps Of Discovery program within your Crew, District, Council, or higher, please PM me so we can converse offlist. Eagle son (also a Venturer) just called me from one of our Scout Reservations ... apparently our Council VOA is contemplating rolling out COD. YIS/ICS/IFAW, John

This is identically posted here in OA and at Venturing. If you have practical experience in implementing the Corps Of Discovery program within your Crew, District, Council, or higher, please PM me so we can converse offlist. Eagle son (also a Venturer) just called me from one of our Scout Reservations ... apparently our Council VOA is contemplating rolling out COD. YIS/ICS/IFAW, John

First, I hope you have a great place for the Eagle Board, great people to have a conversation with on your Eagle Board, and ... A FANTASTIC EAGLE BOARD OF REVIEW. As far as the advancement data goes, what Lisa said. Now, I'd like to have a few moments alone with your unit advancement coordinator. This is exactly the kind of detail you recheck as a Scout becomes an Eagle Candidate and then an Eagle. Visit with your Scoutmaster when you get up. If he believes the effort is worth it, push the conference back a week or so. If not, go forward... you KNOW you've done the work and done it well. Let us know when you're the newest Eagle Scout in BSA!

This is especially sad for me. I know both the Professionals who oversee this camp, as well as several of the Scouters who are on staff. A co-worker of mine (we are both on continuous ops at work) had to give up being on staff this year, to do his day job. These folks love making sure special needs youth (regardless of chronolgical age) get what Scouting delivers. My prayers will go to them privately. If I know our H&S, Camping, and Special Needs folks at all, we'll work very hard to see what we could have done better (note a 2AM bedcheck and a near 1/1 camper to staff ratio in the sleeping facility) to do our best that this won't happen again. As to the facility: The Kansas City area Rotary Clubs provide this camp to many youth-serving activities, to help with their special needs programs. Boy Scouting gets 1 week each year. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ http://www.kansascity.com/115/story/227516.html By KAREN UHLENHUTH The Kansas City Star A mentally challenged man drowned Friday in Lake Jacomo during a Boy Scout outing for members with disabilities. According to the Jackson County sheriffs office, Douglas K. Rogers, 50, of Kansas City wandered into the lake about 3:30 a.m. Rogers was with a group of Scouts at the Rotary camp on Colbern Road, authorities said. The Boy Scouts run one weeklong camp each summer for Scouts of all ages with developmental disabilities. According to the sheriffs office, Rogers walked away from a tent and was heading into the water when a fisherman spotted him. The fisherman yelled, and Rogers shouted back but continued to walk into the water. The fisherman left to summon an overnight security guard. When they returned, Rogers was floating in the lake. They called 911, and deputies responded moments later, said Deputy Ronda Montgomery, spokeswoman for the sheriffs office. They pulled Rogers from the water and brought his body to the dock for emergency workers. He was pronounced dead at the scene. The Scouts hire an extensive staff to look after the campers at Rotary Camp, said Mark Brayer, director of support services for the Heart of America Council. The 77 campers this week were accompanied by 80 to 85 staff members. The campers ages range from 11 to 70. Rogers and eight other campers were sleeping in a shelter with seven staff members. Rogers was present during a bed check just before 2 a.m., Brayer said. This was Rogers fifth year at the camp. He was a member of a Scout troop at the Lees Summit group home where he lived, according to Brayer.

Maybe the issue is to stop calling it a Camporee, and stop pretending it is. Your latest post implies Scouts giving volunteer service to your home city, coupled with having some form of campout. Now, if you have age appropriate service Cubs can do, that's fine. Keep going. If, OTOH, you need the strength and stamina of 11-18 year olds to give this volunteer service, call it a Festival Service Camp, and then get on with doing a proper Camporee... one that gives the Scouts FUN and CHALLENGE. There is room to do both in your district calendar. I'd bank on it!

Lizzy, Allow me to clarify: Tiger Cubs being 1/1 parent to child can be sourced from several places. The age-appropriate guidelines appendix to the Guide to Safe Scouting is a recommendation, not a policy dictum: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/ageguides.pdf Here's another comment to the 1/1 ratio of Tigers to adult partners: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/activities/meetings/den.html "Tiger Cub den meetings are also attended by each Tiger Cub's adult partner." Special needs are a different story, and much depends on the nature of the special need. That's why I stated it as an opinion vice a policy. The Pack leader supervising 5-20 Cubs needs help with his/her charges; if the leader doesn't know how to provide for a special needs child, he/she is going to be tired, frustrated, and burned out before weeks' end. Yes, seeing these children do great things is a joy, but the leader has responsibility for all of them, not just a few of them!

As others have said, follow the list the Course Director gave you. A good camp chair is always useful to have. Check the weather in your area: Rain gear and a tarp are welcome when God decides to water the campsite Of course, your heart should be set upon being an OWL, after all, we rule the night! Finally, HAVE FUN!

CRW, Option A: Let them visit; follow the guidelines. You've already seen them here. Option B: From the G2SS, it is possible to organize at the same site and date a Council opportunity for: Pack Overnighters These are pack-organized overnight events involving more than one family from a single pack, focused on age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at council-approved locations (councils use Pack Overnighter Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In most cases, each youth member will be under the supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is responsible to a specific adult. At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the importance of program intent, youth protection guidelines, health and safety, site selection, age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No. 34426. (Boldface denotes BSA policy sourced to the G2SS from other documents) It means 1/1 environment. It means every Pack has a BALOO trained leader. It means overnighter, not weekend. Can your property for Camporee provide for two co-located, but not co-mingled, events? Are your Packs willing to do what it takes (1/1 evironment) to make this happen? Is the Training Committee ready to put on several iterations of BALOO on short notice? If so, go for it. Have a Council sponsored Pack Overnighter Saturday and Sunday of Camporee Weekend!

OT: Gung-Ho. As I would hope Gunny would tell you, it doesn't stand for enthusiasm (although it's gotten that connotation). It was actually selected by Lt Col Evans Carlson of the Marine Raiders because it meant "All pull together." I do not care whether it's a Pack, Troop, Team, Crew, District, Executive Board, or work group. If the DO folks and the SUPPORT folks don't pull together, whatever you're working on is going to be one bloody mess. I think we have to remember that most of the time, a unit Committee should have no reason whatsoever to vote. It serves to support the Program. The Committee should be sized to support the program of the unit. A Venturing Crew may well require only 3, if most of the work is done by the young people themselves. OTOH, a Pack? 3? You must be kidding. My thoughts. Others may disagree. That's ok

Our District Day Camp builds groups of Packs such that we have about 40 kids at any one program area. Of course, our annual planning factor is 800 Cubs a day for day camp! Two-Deep leadership is an absolute mandate for each Pack. 1/1 for Tigers is an absolute mandate. We design our program areas with sufficient workspace and tools to support the size of our wandering groups. I submit any child with special needs needs a 1/1 ratio to get the most out of camp... be it day or resident! Scott, we encourage newly registered Tigers to come to Day Camp. It helps them get started in Scouting with a burst of FUN!

Fred, I've known you five years now, since Philont 03. You have a good head on your shoulders. Your antennae are indeed twitching as they should be. If the Scout, or Mom and Dad, complained to the District, you'd find the boys advancement being withdrawn from the unit by our District Advancement Chairman. It's a nice theory, but it doesn't pass the common sense or smell tests. What happens if the SM is ill or is working for a campout? YIS

Tribe Of Lone Bear is an Honor Camping Society based at Camp Arrowhead of the Ozark Trails Council. It uses the thematics, program and ceremonies of the Tribe of Mic-o-Say (from the H Roe Bartle Scout Reservation, Heart of America Council AND Camp Geiger, Pony Express Council). However, it is separate from either branch of Mic-o-Say. Gunny, I'll be glad to discuss details of the Tribes with you offlist. Shoot me a PM with your email addy. Like the Order, it uses mystery to aid in attracting the youth. Also like the Order, the Great Secret is THERE ARE NO SECRETS. As to the Brotherhood of Cheerful Service, it inculcates SERVICE to others as an ethic, within the Scouting framework. From a program perspective, it provides substantial leadership opportunity beyond the Troop, through its Chapter (District) and Lodge (Council) structures, let alone the Section (sub-REgion) and Regional leadership. It further provides thespian opportunities far beyond what a single Troop can offer a young man contemplating acting as a vocation or avocation. Beyond these, OA helps to inculcate heritage of the American Indian into our Scouting life. Finally, the Order provides opportunities, at least in my Council, for young men contemplating engineering or construction careers to work directly with one of our Reservation Rangers: In his youth, he was Lodge Chief for a year or two. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ To answer your last question: I undertook my Ordeal in 1970 and my Brotherhood in 1971. I went through the Honorary program to be a Warrior of Mic-o-Say in 2002. I do both, and I enjoy both. Eagle son undertook his Ordeal in 2003 and his Brotherhood in 2004. He was called into the tribe as a Brave in 2004, elevated to Hardway Warrior in 2005, and earned paint responsibilities of Firebuilder and Tom-Tom Beater in 2006 and 2007. He has participated in both branches of Mic-o-Say, and has been active in the Order as well. The evening of his Eagle COH, we went to Lodge Fall Fellowship for steak dinner and ceremony! PM me. John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

OGO, You have the minimum correct. Complete the Ordeal, pay dues. The Order offers much opportunity for an array of teens! It's a great retention tool to Scouting. Encourage your youth to do more than just the minimum!

There is no prohibition from National to having a parent be a childs' own merit badge counselor. Even so, many of us don't want to do it. The appearance of a conflict of interest isn't good, actual conflict is worse. Just because National says you can, doesn't mean you must. What Ed said!

I grew up with Peanuts! A Charlie Brown Christmas rocks.

There are lessons for Scouters to learn here, especially so for body size and strength in relation to the object lifted. Other lessons include site selection for the troop/patrol kitchen!

Easiest way to deal with that is to tell them "OK. You obtain an out-of-Troop counselor who is willing to counsel a whole Troop." I do not know too many MB counselors who are willing to do a whole Troop! Now, THAT SAID!!!! Two years ago a goodly chunk of our Crew and Troop went to Philmont. It was reasonable and proper to do a bunch of First Aid training. We agreed to focus several meetings across the Troop and Crew on First Aid. We Scouters agreed to bring in qualified 1st Aid MB Counselors... they were docs certified to do ARC Standard First Aid (the Venturing program standard). We integrated selected youth to instruct certain tasks, but they had to rehearse them in front of the docs. About halfway through the PLC told us some of the younger Scouts were getting bored. We had discussed this beforehand, and they said they'd deal with it. Well, we held them to account. Bottom line: LOOK AT HOW THE ACTIVITIES OF YOUR UNIT PROGRAM CAN BE LEVERAGED INTO THE MERIT BADGE SYSTEM. Occasionally, it will make sense. Allangr, welcome to the Forums. You will note in MB Counselor training that there should be 2 Scouts going to visit a single MB counselor. You can also deal with the no 1/1 issue by having counseling happen in a public place, such as a local restaurant. Follow the advice given in the National YP video. Don't let MBs in your program be a routine!

Lisa, From having a "paper tiger" UC: The best thing the District can do to help is get a really good Unit Commissioner to the start-up. This needs to be someone who understands both the program and the support side of Scouting. He needs to have the District calendar graven in his eyelids, and be able to recall it at a snap. The UC needs to understand and participate in how the Troop communicates. I had a UC who didn't do email. Guess what: That's how 90% of the support side got done. Needless to say, he was a mushroom. If the startup Troop doesn't have someone who has used Troopmaster or internet advancement/rechartering, this is good technical skill development for a 1/1 environment of District Committe expert to new unit worker. From an advancement perspective: I budget: - a man-hour to load 1 family into Troopmaster when they join. - 1 hour each week outside of meeting for routine updates (blue cards). - 2 man-hours per patrol for Scout book audits and updates. - 4 man-hours before a Court of Honor to summarize all advancements and feed to the activities person to help produce the program. - 4 man-hours per Life Scout to cross-check Eagle Candidate records. HTH.

Jim, welcome to the campfire. I see you've already started contributing by helping out CNYScouter! Thanks!(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

I've been to several funerals recently. No youth, thankfully. With the strength of Scouting here in Kansas City, visitation evenings are often crowded with uniforms. The funeral itself? Suits and ties. OA/MOS lanyards, Beavers, Eagles... but suits and ties.