John-in-KC

The operating advantage of following the themes is the various Scouting resources which the Council is obliged to furnish under the Charter Agreement: - Boy's Life - Scouting - Roundtable - Program Helps ... all follow the National Program. If your PLC under your mentorship veers away from this, then you are locally responsible for finding the program support, rather than having resources placed at hand. September RT, October Program is Athletics. We happen to have an NFL referee in our district. He's bringing his "show and tell." For our Skill Enhancement, we're bringing in the local cyclery to discuss selecting a bike, a local rider to discuss various bike/camp combinations in a 2 hour drive from our District, and the MB Corner will by Bicycling, to ensure Scouters understand current requirements (since it seems National is doing requirements changes on a 4 year cycle now). All this is backburnered if a Troop decides to do something else in October. My experience is a well-designed unit implementation of the program makes things "not lame," rather cool! One year cooking was the theme. We had three weeks of Patrol Iron Chef competition: One week with backpacking food, one week with Dutch Ovens, and one week with a full patrol kitchen. The more front-end the SM can do as the program officer in helping seed ideas to the PLC, the better the program will go. I guess my point is if you choose not to use the resources BSA gives the unit serving Scouter, don't complain that your District and Council are not supporting you! (Backstory: We just did District Roundtable annual program implementation meeting. We looked at the surveys: Waaayyy too many said "why did you do special cooking in November. Our Troop theme for December was..." SMs were somewhat chagrined when the DC told them his job was to furnish 1 sample program not 58 (yes, we have 58 Troops in our District).(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Google on "topographic map symbols" You'll get several excellent results for standard lists, USGS and University of Wisconsin Stevens Point are both represented. Enlarge the graphic as needed, print and paste to 5 x 8 cards. As an aside, the BSA National theme for this September is Fishing. Orienteering is scheduled for next May. Any reason you're not using the National Program?

Scouting Mom, If the DE is allowing anything less than the National standards for a new unit, sooner or later that Council is going to be in the news... in a very bad way. My only dispute with what Scoutldr and you wrote is that the COR MAY BE co-chartered as the CC. In other words... There must be a COR. There must be a CC. COR/CC may be same person, or there may be a COR and a CC. There must be 2 other members of Committee. HTH. YIS.

One technique I've seen work: The visitor's gallery. Scouts not members of the PLC may attend, but they do not sit at the table and they do not have a voice.

Sheesh. I really should get back on a day based circadian rhythm before I try serious writing. I meant to say The larger point is, though, I believe embedded in what you asked. It brings me full circle: I um a gud spuler and butter grimmarian. John

AvidSM wrote: "At COH's only. We have one every 3 months. Can't give them out immediately, because we don't have them. We have to submit advancment paperwork in order to get badges at Council." HUH? How far away is the NEAREST Council Office and Scout Shop (note I didn't say your own, the nearest... Council Registrars are supposed to share information). We have the worst of all worlds at our Council: A Supply Corporation Regional Scout Shop. On the weekends, they are quite delighted to accept an advancement report and sell rank, merit badges, and cards. I'm sorry. I've been an Advancement Coordinator. I'm able to update Troopmaster and cut an Advancement Report within two hours of the end of a Troop Meeting. We have a guy who works about 7 miles from the Council Office. I email the report to him, he takes it in. Internet advancement is supposed to be even easier. I submit your Troop CAN give some form of recognition certainly within two weeks, and almost certainly the very next week.

Trev, I will answer you with Paul's words from First Corinthians... 12 But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? 13 If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14 And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15 More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16 For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. 17 And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18 Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19 If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The larger point is, though, I believe embedded in what ask. It brings me full circle: As a SCOUTER, I am committed that our children grow up inside a faith tradition. I believe that to be a reasonable expectation of those joining Boy Scouts and Venturing in particular. I believe our Scout Camps should provide for worship opportunities. I believe those should be reasonably specific to a young mans' faith. Don't ask a young Muslim to Shabbat. Don't ask a young Orthodox Hebrew to worship in the general Protestant Christian chapel. If a Scout or Scouter asks me what my personal faith is, I will share, as I have here. As to my own worship, the Triune Almighty God has given me guidance in His Word. Please do not ask me to personally accepting of the things God tells me "don't do." I have enough problems with my own sin (and trust me, I truly believe church is a hospital for sinners). Does that make sense? John

SWScouter, That sounds to me like an issue to push up through Commissioner and DE channels. Does anyone know if Learning For Life has a module equivalent to DARE???

NC, I will agree with you up to the point of prayers to a universal god. In discussions with my Pastor, that is anathema. Had a talk with a Philmont Chaplain a few years back. His position was, when all are inside Christendom, he led Christian worship. When there were folks who self-identified as non-Christians, he set worship aside, discussed some things, and then dismissed the session. Those who wanted to pray in their own tradition were then in position to so do.

What's the problem??? When I recertified as BSA Lifeguard after many years break, I was being taught by young men. They were current, I wasn't. If the young person has the expertise, then give him the tools (instructional techniques) to teach. Depending on the youth, it might be a good thing to have a "ringer" in the training audience... someone who will set an example of showing deference.

SSScout, IMO, your TG and SM (course director) are full of excremental matter and stinketh. I guess they've forgotten that Cubbing is the seed corn of Boy Scouting. Funny. At the time, I was registered at unit level on the Boy side and at District level (still am there) as a Boy Scout RT staff). Neither my TG nor my SM had any problem with me serving as a Bear Council Resident Camp Commissioner! You can always make your service part of the "lifetime" tickets!!!

Barry, Don't let Jambo's ad hominem attacks get to you. I know I appreciate your input and feedback! John

Unit approach in the Pack I served? Real simple. Den Leaders and the Pack Committee Activities Coordinator break events (den or pack level as needed) down into the various bite-size chunks. Nicely ask a parent, based on their skills and desires, to do one chunk of one event. Thank the parents effusively after the event. Repeat as needed. It really is that simple.

The Eagle Board is the one puzzling me. By the time most young men are arriving at Eagle, they've developed special relationships with people. If you ask the Scout himself for input, I would hope he has plenty of folks who meet qualifications to sit an EBOR in his mind as special people! I guess this is why some districts use district level EBORs. As far as the other circumstance goes, I'd honor the request in a different way: I'd send over an experienced Scouter who runs a good BOR to train the unit leaders. The new unit has to learn sometime, now is better than later.

The first weekend is designed to stress you in time. It's supposed to be an allegory for the lack of knowledge an 11-18 year old has. They can't undo your mind, but they can put it under pressure. Couple that with late summer heat, and ... it happens. We had something like 3 meetings (might even have been 4) between sessions. We definitely worked pieces of the patrol flag, we also worked on developing ticket items. To me, the ticket item is designed to relate you and your skills/interests to Scouting jobs which need doing. If the items you propose do not matter to you, they do not get done, or at best get done with extra effort to overcome your own resistance. OTOH, things you like to do...?... you spend time on them because you are passionate about them. You get more done with less energy than the items you were resistant about! Keep asking questions or venting; it's why we are all here

A few verses from Scripture, to get to my point of "As a Christian I am supposed to be relatively in-tolerant of other gods." John 14:5-14: 5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?" 6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him." 8 Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us." 9 Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10 Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Revelation 3: 14-16 14"To the angel of the church in Laodicea write: These are the words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the ruler of God's creation. 15I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! 16 So, because you are lukewarmneither hot nor coldI am about to spit you out of my mouth. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Ephesians 2:1-10 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressionsit is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faithand this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I quote these sections of Scripture not to evangelize, but to demonstrate my point: God does not will it that His people embrace other gods. As a Scouter, though, my duty is to allow families the latitude to choose and practice a faith tradition. We provide Catholic, Protestant Christian, Community of Christ, and Episcopal chaplain coverage at our Scout Camp. When one of the area Synagogues comes to camp, they adjust fire and do their Shabbat service Sunday morning (as I recall, someone in the Troops serves as cantor, and I believe they have deployed a rabbi to cover the unit. I do not think it unreasonable to ask that the less common faith traditions, whatever they be, provide for their Scouts in long term camp. Of course, on the trail, that's a different story... the young men need some form of small prayerbook/songbook, and will need to do it themselves. To conclude this I need to point out two camp practices in my area: One of our Reservations runs 6 10 day sessions of Scout Camp. Typically one Sunday is part of the session. Yes, it's a "deal with the majority attending", but we use Sunday for worship and Visitor's Day. Our other Scout Reservation runs a more modern 7 day session. Wednesday afternoon and evening is Visitor's time with chapel, campfire, and such. At that camp, that is when I'd expect non-Christian communities to provide faith support to their Scouts. After all, that when we Christians do worship. Peace be with you in all you do John

I forgot the ultimate principle of Cub Leadership last night. It's a six letter acronym: Keep It Simple, Make It Fun!!! KISMIF!

PUSH OUT ONE OF THOSE HS KIDS TO BE A DEN CHIEF TO THAT ONE BOY!!! MAKE HIM FEEL THE MOST SPECIAL 10 YEAR OLD IN THE WORLD!! Yes, I'm shouting

Some hats the Scoutmaster wears: Mentor. I don't know of too many 14 year olds who can run an effective meeting, they have to learn how, and the SM is a guy to give feedback and coaching. Moral Compass: The Troop wants to do something that is explicitly outside the G2SS. He's the last one to ask "Is that really the right thing to do?" Appetite suppressor: The Troop wants to do X. X costs $N per boy, and T time per Scouter. "Where is the money going to come from, boys?" "Are there enough adults who can give vacation to cover a seven day outing and 3 days each way in transit?" ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Scout led means the young men are already thinking about all the things above. Boy led means the SM may have to step in. Adult led is when an inadequate program with inappropriate events and events which are not supportable with leader/parent time are presented to the Committee, and it has to be the bearer of bad news: The program is not supportable. To me, the ultimate tests of Scout led are: - The annual program presented by the SPL/SM to the Committee can be resourced. - The SPL, Warranted Offices, and PLC are able to execute the program with appropriate adult support.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

WElcome home. First, get a good nights' sleep!!! We know you're tired. Been there, done that. Every Patrol dynamic is different. Ours basically bypassed forming and storming, and went to norming. We dropped back to storming over one young man, and then charged to performing for weekend 2. Now, the ticket is fairly simple: Why is what you want to do important to Scouting, yourself, your units, and/or the greater good? That's your VISION. What are the big things you expect to have to do to meet your vision? Those are your GOALS. How do you break down your goals into bite size, measurable chunks? That's the SMART acronym: Specific Measurable Attainable Relevant Time based PM me with your email addy, I have a format I used to communicate ticket items with my TG.

While I absolutely agree with OGE, Beavah, and LisaBob, just in case we are dealing with a "stick in the mud" SM, does anyone have the appropriate words from "Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures?"

Where to begin... m2It01... welcome!!! OK, going forward: Everyone now needs TRAINING: - Fast Start for Cub Scouting (online) - Youth Protection for Scouting (online) - New Leader Essentials for Scouting ... in person. - Leader Specific Training for: -- Cubmasters -- Tiger Den Leader -- Cub Den Leader -- Webelos Den Leader ... depending on the postion. Someone needs BALOO, which is an orientation to the outdoors. Print off Lisa's post!!! She has great advice. Now, if Beavah weighs in here, he'll comment about "random selection of leaders." Let me point you to some information, going forward, on how to put the right person in the right job. It is kinda important. Let me give you some webspages from National for some bedtime reading: Role of the Cubmaster: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/cmast.html Role of the Assistant Cubmaster: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/acmas.html Roles of the Pack Committee: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/pcomm.html Role of the Pack Trainer: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/resources/13-152.pdf How to select quality leaders (this is an instructor sylabbus): http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/18-626/18-626.pdf Roles of Den LEaders: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/csden.html ROLE OF THE DEN CHIEF (a Boy Scout position, talk to area Troops to get help here): http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/about/thepack/csdcf.html Your Council should offer training for Den Chiefs. In a perfect world, the DL and the Den Chief should both attend, so they have mutual understanding and set mutual expectations. Here's a tool for self-assessment of a Pack which your Unit Commissioner (if you have one) should give you; it'll help form ideas: http://www.scouting.org/forms/33618/33618-25.pdf Finally, here is a tool the COmmmissioner himself uses to look at your unit as opposed to the theoretical ideal: http://www.scouting.org/forms/34125.pdf Ask lots of questions. Many of us have been here before, and at some point, many Packs roll over leadership every few years, so someone is always on the learning curve. Finally, attend Roundtable. It's for all leaders, not just the Cubmaster and Chairman. Model Pack meetings, model den meetings, introduction of the BSA program for the coming month, all tools to help you serve those young men. Good hunting, and keep asking questions.

I love vaporware. That access to ScoutNet was promised in "Spring 2007." About the 1st of July, someone finally changed the implementation date to "Summer 2007." Well, they have less than 30 in Sumnmer of 2007 days to get it rolled out!!! I love vaporware.

Confirm Gonzo. I'm still getting the activity. John

Gents, This afternoon I'm getting some really strange stuff come in as I load pages here at the Forum. When I look at my internet history, I see pages I've never seen before, such as content.womensforum.com, s108.cnzz.com, and xygaoke.cn. I'm used to seeing google syndication, I know that's how Terry sells ads. I'm concerned Scouter has been infected with "something." You are free to remove this post once you've read it. I'm leaving for work shortly, so I am purging my cache. PM me and I'll try to answer about 0500 tomorrow when I get off shift. YIS John