John-in-KC

Gunny, Each Scout is an individual, and brings different perspectives to a BOR. I'll be honest, though... when I've done 3 BORs in an evening, I have to have a break between the 2d and the last. Done right and well, I invest in the kid, and that's mental work. When a Scout asks for 3 boards in a night, he's getting the same questions over and over again. He doesn't get different adults perspectives, he doesn't have to listen to another adult expresses himself... and responds to his/her question. My thoughts Hope all is well down in your part of the State

SFAICT, anyone S-T-2 has to do the new requirements to advance to T, 2 or 1. Beyond that, well, National Advancement Committee didn't think to bother to change Family Life or Personal Fitness (and either would be a workable place to integrate the new requirements at higher level). My thoughts...

I don't like doing 3 BORs for the same young man in one night. It exhausts both the kids and the BOR members (if I can scratch up 6 other Committee folk on a single evening). I might, as a CC, say... you've successfully completed the BOR for Tenderfoot. Next week, you'll have your BOR for 2d Class... with different folks on it. The week after that, your BOR for 1st Class, again with different folks on it. That's simply a matter of scheduling, so that the Scout gets the full advantage of the Adult Association Method. ... BTW, if I was ever directly confronted with this situation, either the SM or I would be having a cup of coffee with the District Advancement Chairman. (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Barry, I'm glad that Eagle Board came out well. As for me, the best Eagle boards were the ones where the Scout asked to go someplace special to him. We've done several at Scout Camp... out of season... because something happened. It's exciting to hear those stories. I've also seen Boards where the Scout asked the CC for persons X, Y, and Z to sit the board. Guess what? From my experience, those are often the more challenging boards. I've also heard young men debate kind... I heard one young man say every Scout should do both Swimming AND another activity (hiking/cycling) MB, because it was a demonstration of fitness.

Artigas, Congratulations. ACP&P #33088 does say that SM/ASM are prohibited by policy (as opposed to rule and regulation of charter/bylaws) from being a sitting member of the EBOR. It also says non-Scouters may sit, as long as they are trained about what is happening in the process of an EBOR. Have I seen the first rule violated? Yes. This will neither be the first nor the last time a SM sits the EBOR. I suspect there's often a deeper reason. When the Board goes well (and most do, let's be honest), it's a moot point. Most young men approaching their Eagle Board are folks who we want to see as Eagles. If the Board doesn't go well, as BW said, it's one ground for appeal. BTW, turn-around from National has hugely improved in recent years. EagleSon got his in 9 days! If an Eagle packet hasn't shown up in two weeks, then it's time to start asking questions up the line.

As for me, I came up into Boy Scouts before "skill awards." I only have a MB sash. Skill awards came around just as I moved up to Exploring. I think if we re-look the tasks themselves, and the STANDARDS associated with them, we may get what I think is the intended effect: Real learning. Of course, I'm also a product of my enviroment, and for 30 years that was a Taylor-like application of task, condition, and standard.

Sounds to me like the Senate wants to dilute most of the stimulus, strengthen a little bit (I actually think the plug to Food Stamps might not be a bad thing) and delay working on it until mid-February. Harry Reid said so on NPR (at least the mid-Feb part). Meanwhile, the annual fantasy of the budget cycle begins today. Administration appears to propose zero increase in domestic non-defense spending, and cuts in Medicare/Medicaid. Oh, and the war supplemental is off-budget... What are they putting in the air around the Beltway?

I didn't bother to watch until the fourth quarter. I liked the Coca-Cola ad. Pot Roast goes better with Coke!

Stosh, I had my priorities this weekend. Bob's original analogy breaks down imo with the variations in the food item he selected. There's only one rule that I know of for pot roast: It's about the ultimate in moist heat methods. Everything else is variable. If I happen to have to try to make it hamburger, I'll probably end up with a superb meat soup or stew, but heck... you make do with the resources you have That's far closer to Beavah's model of Scouting ... which isn't quite "whatever it takes" to "follow the rules precisely." As for the wine, well, if someone's gonna whine about the wine... leave it out Then you won't have a whimper about the wine. As an aside, I probably won't be around much this coming week. Training trip in my day job to the East Coast.(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Replying to Lisa's request, sorry I'm late, but I was at Scout Camp for workday when she posted it, then I had a priority of EagleSons' Honor Band concert. 3-4 lb chuck roast. 1-2 onions 1 lb baby carrots 1 lb tomatoes (optional) 2 cans beef broth (low sodium) ~ 1 Cup Cabernet Sauvignon or Pinot Noir, the drier the better. Dice and carmelize the onions Preheat oven to 275F Sear the chuck roast on all sides, about 2 minutes per side. Put the carmelized onions and the carrots in the bottom of a large (6 quart minimum) pot (I use a Le Cruseut (sp?) Size E at home). Put roast in oven, covered. Add broth and wine to fill. Cold water can be used, as the juices from the roast will become part of the pot liquour. Cook for 3 hours. NOTE: I've learned to have a underliner of an aluminum turkey roaster or a corningware roasting pan the hard way. HTH, Lisa (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

My personal suspicision is someone perceives "Good Turn For America" isn't getting the Eagle Project hours... and so the remedy is to use the app as a source document... with the folks in Irving posting the data!

OK, folks, Blue Sky period is closed. Now, take a look at someone else's idea. You can simply agree with it, amplify it, OR... IF you choose to critique it, THEN explain why. "It's a stupid idea." doesn't explain why... Let's see what of these ideas made us think... AS FOR ME... I like Ed's comments about mandatory training, but the follow-along is both the content and the trainer have to pass the "not a waste of my time" test. One example: This weekend at Scout Camp workday I sat through a half hour safety class covering ergonomics. The training itself was literally read from the slides. What got us going was the cross-discussion ... between a lot of trades and crafts people who had real stories to tell of unsafe actions and their consequences. Real people with real stories made this training good.

I'm fond of Southern California's beaches in the springtime, having grown up there. Two in particular, both in Santa Barbara County, offer a chance to serve as a base camp, and do some real camping, as well as a base of operations for side trips. Those two beaches are Carpenteria, on the East side of Santa Barbara (the coast here runs not quite true east and west) and El Capitan, on the west side. Three of California's missions (Santa Barbara, Santa Ynez, and La Purisma) are in easy day trip distance. The University of California, Santa Barbara is (to me, even when I was a Scout) a day trip all in itself. The beaches themselves are an attraction (but caution, the water is too cold for swimming at this point), and Santa Barbara has all manner of historic "stuff" associated with it. Now that I've done this with a specific location, use it as a model for your PLC to do research... think of someplace different, then have the Scouts research it to see if there's enough fun/educational side trips to make the expedition worthwhile.

Hi Mr Ploense, Congratulations to your son!!! One of my personal challenges is to leave behind emotional baggage which I no longer need to, and should not, tote. I'll endorse what Beavah said! Celebrate the good. Drop the bad in the dumpster. Storing up bad stuff doesn't help anyone, least of all you Been there, had it happen to me. Again, be a proud Eagle Dad! Your son did it!!!

All, I just got an email from my Council covering all manner of program stuff. Much we've covered already (read: bullying) elsewhere here. This got my attention: The National Council, BSA has revised the Eagle Scout Rank Application. Please review your forms to ensure that form No. 58-728, now shows under Requirement 5, the name of the candidate's Eagle project, as well as the grand total of hours devoted to it. The new application will be required beginning May 1, 2008. http://www.nesa.org/trail/58-728.pdf You want to make sure the Eagle app you use is #58-728A, with a release date of 2008. Here are the words, copied from the new form: REQUIREMENT 5. While a Life Scout, plan, develop, and give leadership to others in a service project helpful to any religious institution, any school, or your community. The project idea must be approved by your Scoutmaster and troop committee and by the council or district before you start. You must use the Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project Workbook, No. 18-927, in meeting this requirement. Project name: ____________________________________________________________ Grand total of hours: __________ (from page 10 of Eagle Scout Leadership Project Workbook) Date project was completed: Month Day Year (key entry data type box) Here's to serving our youth, John(This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Our church, though not a chartered partner, has invited Cub, Boy, and Girl Scouts to attend in uniform. They'll help ushers during the worship services. We also have a couple kids who will get various God and Country awards. They'll get to be at the altar with Pastor. Two of our parish Eagle Scouts won't be there, though. They are the University of Kansas Prairie Winds Honor Band weekend, and their concert is Sunday 1PM (This message has been edited by John-in-KC)

Churches discriminate against atheists as well. We pray for them.

You format your post using the "Format this post" link below the <b>Your Message on the left side of the message input screen.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I took canoeing MB... as an Explorer (Post 7, Reseda, CA). We were doing a trip down the Colorado River, put-in was Needles, we came out someplace in Lake Havasu. Yes, we used a variant of the School Method to get us all trained up... we took American Red Cross Basic Canoeing. Learned in the port waters of Marina Del Rey, CA. When we were ready for the trip, we went out to Needles (a 5 hour drive, but it was Spring vacation as I remember), and we put in. I remember we overnighted near the Santa Fe Topock bridge across the Colorado. Several of us went to a Counselor one night after it was all done; I got the badge. Each badge, each piece of training, each activity... if the youth and the adults use some common sense, what's needed will come to pass. I do remember that standards were different in those days. Coast Guard Class II floatation devices were between our rumps and the thwarts.

Vicki, BINGO!!!! I've used all manner of GUI based form engines. Army's been using them in one form or another for almost 15 years. BSA has simply put blanks for the typewriter on the shelf. What a crock of excrement, it stinks! For three years EagleSon and I have taken the Council staff app, snapshotted it, copied it into the master of a powerpoint slide, and then built text boxes as needed. At least we can save the %%%% form. Tonight I got told a horror story by a SM friend. He's got a kid who has had his name wrong in ScoutNet for 3 years. This year they tried changing it at Internet recharter. Well, yes, you're working with ScoutNet, but apparently the Registrar opens your data in one pane, the existing Troop data in another pane, validates the BSA numbers, selects all on the existing pane and PRINT. I told him (he's a 4 digit family and 5 digit community FOS donor)... hold your donation hostage to getting the name right. It'll happen in about 5 minutes

You mean I can't tell you you're weak worthless and inexcusable? I have my own views of where our forces are... we're riding them hard and putting them away wet, then turning them out for another go before the night is over. The one-year tours are starting to do the same damage they did in Vietnam, the issue is we're doing whole unit replacement vice individual troopers. I'd hate to see the condition of the property books in theater...

Congratulations on both counts. Now, start forming your ticket as SM!

Beavah? Spinster? That has a denotation my friend. Are you stating you are not of the male gender?

Background points: I am overtly Christian; I am laity of a conservative lutheran persuasion. Through an area church, I help counsel the protestant God and Country program sponsored in our District. Our district also has an Ad Altare Dei program for Roman Catholic youth. My in-unit work is with Troops and Crews chartered by community service organizations, not churches, at this time. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ In my two things to change thread, my item "right below the line" was add "Earn the religious award for your faith and age" to the Requirements for Eagle Scout. As I understand the Grand Game, faith is a family matter. That's irrespective of whether we're talking B-P a century ago, or BSA now. Our task is to promote faith in general, not evangelize or prosletyze. Churches which charter Scouting are, of course, free to say to parents: "We support duty to God, expect it to come from the ZZZ context." Parents are then free to make a decision about the program, unit and family fit. The Bible is a good source of Scoutmaster Minute material. Other good sources include the Bhagavad-Gita and the Koran. What's used and how depends to me on the makeup of the unit and the point the SM is trying to make. I am against "mix and match" worship (Christian hymn linked to Koran verse to Jewish prayer). I've heard a Philmont staff chaplain call that anathema. I said above I counsel God and Country... specifically God and Chruch (6-8 grades, roughly Confirmation years). When I'm counseling, I will not hide the message of the Christus. The child is there at his or the parent's request, the task He sets before me is to share the Good News. When I'm in a unit, though, I will help a young person find resources for their own faith. If he's unchurched, I will help him find another Scout who attends, and encourage him to try worship. Go with God!

We've had this thread a couple times Here it is in Advancement Forum: http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=174698 Search on requirements in the advancement forum, there's another short thread as well. Eammonn pointed the Collective to a pretty darn good Scouts UK resource in the thread I listed above.