anarchist

Assumming facts as presented.... First, Scouting like all human endeavors has its good, its bad and its truly ugly...these boys are not all little angels...and perhaps some of what we do is character building from the basement up and we do not always succeed. That said, I would really hope; (open day dream here, folks)...that the night of Mr."Donkeys" Life BoR, as he is standing outside the room, ready to be presented to the Board...the door opens and out walks you followed by the young lady in the wheel chair and your son ...staring him down (while smiling..is that too much dreaming?)... the entire way...At least for a few minutes he would (might, anyway) be feeling like the world may be about to fall in on his head...oh well back to the real world... At the first instance of a repeat of this type of behavior (after the donkey and his friends are back in the lunch room (or anywhere else for that matter)... It would be time to speak to the real authorities...and I would not hesitate to warn the School Board (not the principal), right now, that any repeated bullying is unacceptable...and that the police as well as your law-suit-happy attorney will be getting the next phone calls. Most school boards are finally getting the picture...I know at my wifes school it is a BIG DEAL. Keep in mind, One hour, that while a 'donkey' who "says" he is a scout did the bullying and young man who acts like a Scout did the defending...something is working! anarchist

welilissit, Welcome to the campfire, and dare I say "Fresh Meat"!? Just kidding, though sometimes the folks get a bit "playful" ...but hey, you're well armed...for this anyway. These are good folks with sometimes very strong opinions (stay out of the issues and politics threads unless you have a light heart and a strong stomach) In here you will find "by the bookers" and "free thinkers" with some more creative solutions to almost anything you want to know...and Like your grand daddy taught you (don't believe everything you read) use common sense and a good dose of skepticism you'll do fine...have a cup of "Joe" Anarchist (Lifer for life and proud papa to a new Eagle)

Hey CNYScouter, went by the scout shop today to pick up a couple of star badges and second class badges and checked the shelf they have one in stock now and said they could order more. They are called Hot Pot Tongs, cast alum. $8.55 (ouch) SKU# 7 30176 01215 5. To their knowledge BSA has not discontinued...they mentioned that your shop might not sell enough to keep it on the shelf...but the had not heard about BSA dropping the things... However, in my somewhat frantic search(just in case your info source was right), to find a replacement I found a neat set of "tongs" called campfire tongs by ROME Industries...look sorta interesting, about $10 (up to $15 at some suppliers)...seems to have a better leverage system by way of its design...gonna try to get my hands on one "just" to see if it's good...no, I am not a kitchen gear-head...just like more toys.... anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

Caffine plain or caffine with chemicals and sugar...hummm... Ya'll are forgettn' the most important additives to camp coffee (and the reason we and the boys want to drink the darn stuff), -bits of pine bark, -slivers of old leaves -bugs (types- depending on time of year- I'm partial to the big golf-ball size night beetles, myself but some of my friend prefer drowned skeeters) -egg shells, -grains of sand from the beach trip -bits of old paper towel and the golden light of a new morning... peaking over the top of the next hill, lighting up another day of scouting... nuff said...gotta go find the coffee pot! anarchist -

Ahoy Eamonn, heck, you can sail canoes if you need to! If building is not your forte (and I would NEVER get into a boat I built...at least not on water)... Keep your ear to the ground and eyes open. There are boats out there...Our troop launched our "not so new" 1968 Hawk two weeks ago during of all things, our September flatwater canoe training weekend! It was great! We of course are not Sea Scouts...just a really warped group of "Regular" Boy Scouts (water spaniels?) with even more warped group of Scouters... Our troop was approached by a local engineer who had purchased a beat-up 16 foot sail boat ...for you know, "when he had time to recondition it".... After a few years of watching the boat sitting in his backyard, turning green under a leaky tarp, he decided to offer it to our troop. (Interestingly enough, he had seen our troop canoe carrier loaded with eight bright red boats, tooling back and forth, (following our bright red troop trailer to outings) on the towns main drag many times over the last two years and he decided since we liked water... what the heck...we might want a "free" sail boat..."ADVERTIZING" pays!) The little boat needed a major patch on the bow bilge area, some fiber glass sealing on the centerboard/keel area and new lines, a rudder( he had purchased a new rudder and never installed it), sails were "well patched" but usable, the gelcoat was and is still a mess and the anti-slip deck surfaces needed help. The hull needed lots of fairing work but it is coming along nicely...The trailer needed two new tires and new lights(still not sure on the wheel bearings)...We still have a bunch of work to do (cosmetic) but what a team project and troop asset! ( It also gave me an excuse to get the hugh, space eating "garage tarp" out of our trailer... so that we could have a place to work on the boat. ) And what a funny picture, the Hawk with the Sails hoisted, three green kayaks and a gaggle of bright red canoes following it out of the cove like little ducklings! Keep pounding the net and inquiring at boat yards and dealers...you can do it! Old tired boats are out there waiting for someone to re-energize them (and this is a good time to find them). (oh yes, the engineer even donated $250.00 for hull paint!)...yes Virginia, there is a Santa Clause! Some days it does pay to get out of bed! good luck and steady breezes anarchist (not a sailor but ballast for the boat)(This message has been edited by anarchist)

asm206, Does your troop do any regular hiking? (I hope!?) Between now and the "Main Event" I would suggest a ten miler with day pack or no pack, then couple of ten milers with day/weekend pack on first hike, and a loaded (weeks worth)pack on the second...evaluate and make "changes" as needed. Basics, -water source? carry it or filter it and purify? -Food/ meals, calories per day. -emergency "evac" locations for "drop-outs" -shelter alternatives - first aid at least one or two wilderness first-aid trained 'medics' and many medic kits with lots of mole-skin and tough skin, -back pack stoves and fuel (should be of same type-you can cannibalize).Know how to use. -stove maintenance kits and basic repair skills...several scouts should be able to disassemble and repair your stoves. -transport/shuttles. you didn't say the distance you plan on covering or the terrain, but for your first full week hike you might consider a fifty miler...10 or less miles per day is a pace most "rookies" can handle. good luck and let us know how it goes anarchist

HI all, Came in on the back side of this after reading Eamonns spin-off thread. I have been working with our Troop now for well over 9 years and the associated Pack for over 14 years... Through these forums I have learned a lot of valuable lessons. I now know (and this is NOT a knock on the forums)how to "change" fund raising projects, COs, CCs, SMs, even troops...but just how do you change a SPL? It is clear that so many troops (like this great nation) have had awful experiences with elections. In the troop's case electing really disfunctional SPLs... so what is the answer? I know some of us would blame the failure of a SPL on the Scout Master...some even on the troop committee,the boys who elect the SPL, or the schools, or the society at large,...heck some of us even might blame the boy (SPL). In nine years I have seen the effects of electing really good SPLs, good SPLs, SPLs who are "just going through the motions", "challenged" SPLs, and two really bad SPLs. Interestingly enough, one of the most disappointing SPLs was one who, if our troop did use the much maligned "SM appointed technique", would have been the hands down choice of the entire Troop Program Leadership (SM and ALL ASMs) He was by all appearances the poster boy for the perfect Boy Scout! And he was just awful! I so vividly recall all of our "Super Scouters" gleefully rubbing our hands together in anticipation of an outstanding 'new' scouting year...The kids had given the Leaders (adults) a real winner to work with!...Not! Does a full year under a bad SPL kill a troop, probably not. But it helps to push out scouts and leaders who are marginally discouraged to start with and it helps kill enthusiasm of folks who have worked hard to build the program. In our experience it also appears electing a bad SPL is or can be particularly "hard" on new scout retention...(Perhaps, parents who are not locked into the program see the chaos and disfunction and assist in their sons tactical "retreat" from the disaster scene?). Now my post is not a request for "how do you train/retrain" the SPL, lets take as a given that he is beyond "help", can't or won't be "retrained"... What does a troop do...who fires him? For that matter who fires a non performing PL? Or does the troop just stumble along for a year? (I know shorter terms-six months would be easier to "live through" (we use year "appontments") but the actual "learning curve" means a boy who is succeeding in his position has just started to really shine when he is asked to stand for election again or stand down for others to have a chance and troop "long term" planning is impacted. let the violence begin...(:>0) anarchist (This message has been edited by anarchist)

mdeckerz, not to be a "scab picker" here, but your lovely lady seems really hung up on being forced to give up a weekend for less than minimum wages...have you warned her about the "one hour a week" you will be giving to scouting? anarchist

CNYScouter, I bought seven of them for the troop last month from the council scout shop...dutch oven plyers??? If you want I can check back and "ship you a pair" if they have more instock. Also in another thread from last spring on D.O. cooking one of our lovely lady posters noted a certain store sold the same things for about 40% less than the scout shop..you might want to search the threads. let me know anarchist

OGE, yard sales and flea markets, thrift shops and my favorite -real army surplus stores (OD wool socks $2.00 pair (new) liners $4.00, "Bear jackets" (actually the liners in the cold weather outfit for $30-35.00. good gloves $3.00-$8.00! for outer-wear depending on your neck of the woods there are usually several "ski/snow board swaps" every spring/fall and outer wear in good shape is well priced... and most important as I have "said" before in these forums ...the leadership (adults) in our troop have a standing committment that money will not stand in a deserving scout's way....We are blessed with a group of leaders who are willing and able to reach into their own pockets to see that scouting is available...starting with the uniform... So,We would take the lad off to the 'sales' and outfit him (one way or the other, and make sure he had a plan to "work to earn his way)...just like summer camp... "taking care of our own" means something to the gal and guy Scouters in our troop (like I am sure it does in most troops out there. (so you know we are not running for sainthood here)...if the family's reason for not being able to support their scout is the cost would stop them from sending him to sports camp next summer or they just bought him a new entertainment center...we would be real 'heavy' on the requirement for the lad really earning his own way...no free lunches...but money should not deter a boy either. anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

Hi all, The transition from "boy led" by ADULTS and real BOY LED by BOYS is a long, tough trek...but it is worth it. Our boys do everything but supply the credit card and make the reservations. But it did not happen over night...One tool we have found extremely helpful is a troop-wide scout survey. Years ago it was apparent that "this years" program looked exactly like last years, and the next last year, and on and on. The troop had a good solid outdoor program with some great events but they were the same every year. The SM (at the time) was a great guy but very controling and his SPLs usually deferred to his "wants"...One year an adult committee person asked the SPL if the troop membership had any imput and got a, "yeah, the PLC puts it together". the question was repeated as, "do all the boys really tell you what they would like to do???" This time the answer was, "sort of, I guess, well, probably not, but what do the little kids know". This troop elects its new SPL in the early summer so he gets "practice at Summer Camp" it also gives the SM a chance to work with him "one on one" for several days/evenings in a row. That particular year, the committee member worked up a program survey where the scouts were asked to rate each troop activity they participated in over the last year, why they did or did not participate what they liked about summer camp. Then, what kind of "things" they wanted to try next year. A list of every activity that could be found in the field book and handbook were listed and the scouts were asked to rank these according to what they would like to try. This survey (after 'vetting' by the SM and SPL) was given to the scouts on the bus trip home from summer camp (we charter a bus and find it a great way to help 'bond' the boys into a tight group). having the survey filled out on the return trip from summer camp helps the younger boys "remember" any exciting things the boys were exposed too at camp so we "get it all". The (new) SPL is asked to review and statistically report his findings to the PLC and SM...they can then use this tool to gauge the possible interest in new activities and new places. The SPL, PLC and SM then work on the next years program and present it to the committee in August...each year is a new mixture of the "old" events and some new...There are still a few "traditional" events on the calendar that the "old troop" started and the boys love...and there are a few new traditional outtings. Each year is slightly different and camp sites are rarely the same... No the boys don't "know" all this stuff but the adult leaders feed (suggestions, ideas concepts)...the possibilities to the scouts and they run with it...the boys are shown maps of camp areas and search the web. We take part in district camporees and the SPL swaps information with other SPLs at the cracker barrels. It's cool when a plan finally comes together (but it was three years before we really had the whole troop tracking down the right path. And for the last four years it has been an ongoing struggle, particularly with new parents who want to see everyone quietly sitting on their hands and respectfully listening to the drone of a merit badge or "rank" requirements class, keeping the boys from being lazy, or too crazy... just like herding cats... good luck anarchist

msnowman, modern processed wool is not "scratchy". I have wool hunting shirts that feel better than cotton and wool hunting / winter camp socks that are thick and luxurious. Aided by thermal "wicking' sock liners (again - layers)your feet stay dry and comfortable. The Night-Time advantage-for camping on really cold nights... A wool or thinsulate lined cap or hat is great but remember to have a second one in the "sleep-clothes" bag for the night...a second one-one that is dry is important for a good nights sleep in cold weather. lots of body heat escapes from the head...traping it "in" is important. And fresh, clean, dry socks and fresh, clean, dry sleep wear (thermals are nice), not the clothes he played in and sweated in all day...(a mistake many scouts and scouters alike make). Boys being boys...when it is sack time, they are usually warm from moving around all evening or sitting by the fire and many are reluctant to shuck out of their warm clothes..."electing" to stay warm and sleep in their "warm" clothes...Big Mistake...as the night goes on the lack of body activity combined with the rapidly cooling sweaty clothing means the boys get cold...and miserable. On a multi-day winter camp a goods night rest is very important. Hope it helps. anarchist

Great gobs of goose flesh, horror or horrors, that our boys may be funded by parents (not scouts), not in uniform, basically donating their TIME...selling a legal product at a legal venue...so the troop is well funded...Gad Zooks! As long as the CO is on board I see no ethical issue here...the boys (not as scouts) are selling sodas, parents sell the beer and then 'donate' any remuneration to the troop...???!!! The "friend of" dodge is kind of cheesy...but is it any different than the grocery store donating a bit of cash to your troop (around here they sell beer). Or a large theme park having "scout" days (they sell beer)...Or Scout days at the Ball Park (again with beer sales)...think its time for a reality check. Is beer bad? Is it immoral? It certainly isn't illegal! Maybe money is bad???What is it that is wrong? Should I take a poke at the next Scout exectutive I see at a council big money raising function for having a martini? or a Bub lite? Good gosh, if you have problems with how the troop is funded find a better source of funds and make it known...or maybe, better, find a nice quiet troop with a Southern Baptist church CO (like our troop has) Beer sales (a no-no with our church)...would then be no longer an issue... Then you have only to "find" the money to operate (POPCORN!, let's see how many boxes equal $8,000?)...And then are not conflicted and you don't become a thorn in a well established programs back-side... BTW...any openings?...I'd like a piece of that fund raising action...but then, I'd have to find a new CO...wouldn't I? anarchist

you forgot about the ten of us southern lads who stand around and talk about the "good ol' bulbs".... and the guy who.... flips..... off....the....switch!

cheffy, your approach should be appropriate as long as the boy is on board with it...I have seen many boys have a great time in Boy Scouting...four or five years worth and never advanced above first class...they liked the outdoors program, loved the non competitive nature of many of our offerings and most of all just wanted to "hang" with their friends... Just because a boy is not driven to become an Eagle does not mean he gets nothing from the program...and just because he does not want advancement does not mean we are wasting our time...(nor is he). We have a new eagle in our troop, who refuses to schedule a CoH..."just not interested"...I was asked to "lean" on him...his answer was to cock his head a bit to the side and say, "dad, I didn't earn the Eagle to have a court of honor...I did it to see if I could finish the trail we started 11 years ago, in tiger cubs..." nuff said. anarchist

Neckwear, Several years ago the boys decided that a sharp red neckerchief was the "offical troop" neckwear,( We are a "full uniform" troop (at least we try to be)... excepting that the High adventure boys could from time to time wear "special" neckerchiefs like the northern tier or Sea Base neckerchief...Troop adults wear bolos, but we have an interesting twist/ a tradition if you will...When a boy earns his eagle he is awarded (by the troop ...as part of his Eagle package) an Eagle bolo to wear in place of his troop neckerchief (if he would like)... interestingly, the older scouts are now "Lobbying" the PLC to drop the neckerchief completely...it's not "cool". anarchist

Opinels are WONDERFUL knives! easy to put a edge on, simple twist blade lock... I love mine! (and I think it is really cool...in a minimalist sort of way...And I love my Ka bars, my bucks, my 35 yr old swiss army knife, my leatherman wave, my old timers, my rapallas...quality is hard to beat! there seems to be a common idea here...but heck...you might just fine they are good bait knives to give away on fishing trips.... anarchist

kenk, first...gosh lets have virtual patrol, eat virtual food at a virtual campout around a virtual fire... and the adults can all go fishing! At most troop campouts two boys can effectively function as a patrol but cost of food can be difficult without serious planning work...It's why we like 8 to 10 scout patrols.... usually have at least five boys at any event...At camporees, where patrol competitions are an issue we have been known to do 'merges' for man-power reasons. But two, three, or four boys almost alway equal a functioning patrol. Adults cook for adults only, I view it as a solemn duty to prepare meals for the adults which smell so good they leave scouts sniffing the air and drooling uncontrolably...and thusly encourage them to aim higher next time...But scouts cook for scouts (and any adults they might care to ask to dinner)or go hungry. As to quality of meals...SPL checks menus at planning sessions and "too much junk food" or not enough "real food and real cooking" results in a "do over"... Tents: we generally plant 2 scouts in a two man tent (Timberline 2XTs with vestibule). XTs have two doors and a built in vestibule...sweet! We actually start the NSP on their first patrol campouts in 3 man arrangements to help break them in easy (Timberline 4XTs with built in vestibules). Then they move into 2 man tents. Our three man tents are usually used when we have odd numbers in patrols...say 7 boys...then it is two 2-man and one 3-man tents for that patrol. However, "gear" is generally not permitted in tents... Backpacks are "racked and covered" next to the tents, clothes bags and personal supplies, (NO FOOD OR SNACKS) go into the tent along with sleeping bags, "ground cloths",pads, all purpose paper etc....shoes and boots are left in the vestibule. hope it helps anarchist

KF5WT you need to get a refund on your law degree and your cell phone... and do lots more living or research before issuing shuch a broad-side...negligent homicide? Not all phones are GPS enabled and most are/or maybe non functioning in wilderness areas...Many (most currently?) can only home in on the last cell tower that picked up the signal...not necessarily the phone itself... Ask the search and rescue teams...many many lost souls have cell phones and GPS units...but the "magical tools" didn't work or the lost souls were clueless as to how the GPS worked...and Emerg. prep. says it can be a tool not is or must be...lighten up and put your ego back in place....why the sweat? anarchist

resqman, caution... crappy knives are crappy knives...or, if it looks too good to be true it usually is! Go ahead a flop down twelve bucks and see what they are...inexpensive experiment.... But baving seen the number of truly crappy knives given over the years to boys as "tools" (by their parents even),I can speak to cheap = dangerous. Poor back springs,misaligned spacers, dull blades that need grinders to give them any edge at all, screw driver bits too "coarse" to work in any screw on the planet...and when they compare them to other scouts' blades...instant "PoC" labeling...Have bought some good stuff from "C.T.D." but i would be a bit...ah skeptical...of 'dollar knives". also, I am hesitant to offer knives as a present or prize to scouts (from the troop, anyway)....other things: para cord/rope, camp cups, cheap flash lights, chemical lights, fire starter kits, nylon possibles bags, hiking socks, fishing lures, work gloves, wet stones, emergency (reflective foil) "blankets", hand warmers/toe heaters, eating implement sets, BSA tooth brush/combs/, almost anything seems higher up on my prize/gift list than cheap knives. let us know what you find... Gags, how did your bike hike go? Anarchist

After all attempts to clean back in to respectability...have failed...Put in the closet as a yard/car/bike work shirt. Then, after it is truly reprehensible, wash it clean, cut it into pieces and use as a dust cloth, cleaning cloth, (cotton? gun barrel swabs)etc...a scout is thrifty! Its a shirt... anarchist

I guess communications methods really depend on what you are wanting/trying to do. We have a very active web site with links to many resources, forms, check lists, parents guides, terminology guides, contact names, calendars, and schedules. We actively use email, in fact, we have a "throught the web page address link" with one address sending info only to registered scout leaders and another sending out to all parents in the troop. our adult, event "point of contact" organizers/mentors see that the PLC or SPL send out a constant barage of info on up comming events. Then we put up small posters and info sheets (selling the programs) in the meeting hall and multiple handouts to scouts and parents as the need is "felt" anarchist

Imcniece, Trailers! I love trailers! But Trailers can be a pain in the...neck. First you need to check several things...BSA insurance does not cover the trailer at all. In most states (all?), when the trailer is hooked to a vehicle that vehicles accident and Liability policy are on the "hook" even if you pay for an extra liablility policy the tow vehicles policy is the one that will take the hit...a separate troop policy for "travel liability" would be a waste of money... We had a CO that had "issues" about accepting liability and paying for the extra $50-$100 per year to insure the trailer for other types of losses...(equipment) even though the troop paid for the trailer, the tags, taxes and registration...after a few months of "thought" they sent the title back to the troop leaders...We eventually "fired" them ...(calm down BW) Our new CO had no such "issues"... Now on personal/vehicle property taxes...our State does not recognize a trailer as part of the church's mission or ministry "personal property" and disallowed the "religious exemption " so the troop pays the annual taxes...and repairs and tires and lights and locks and paint and signage...lets face it some time ya just gotta pay for what you want. It might be simply a matter of bringing all of the information to your CO (the lawyers would be a nice touch, a local accountant...etc.) and have a chat about your needs and what the trailer will mean to your program. With all the info you may be surprised by a "better" answer. The 501©3 corporations are an interesting twist but you still end up paying insurance and taxes. Tax exempt does not mean that you (as a corporation) are exempt from paying all taxes...'cause you will find that there are still some taxes to pay... let us know what you end up doing! anarchist

The SPL and His ASPL(s) are troop postions they as BW says can not serve two masters...They do not belong to patrols. Our SPL/ASPL even acting SPL(s) if both leaders are "out of action" run the troop business and eat with the adults and or follow the age old scout tradition of mooching or grazing if one of the patrols can put on a better feed than the adults (hardly)....as on of the "perks" of office the adults feed the SPL for his efforts with the troop...basically he eats for free for a year! (and eats very well I might add). As for multiple ASPLs don't know that I have ever seen either an official statement that there can be multiples nor have I seen any prohibition...depending on the size of the troop more can be better! anarchist

Hi all, Two interesting "bits" for this thread... First, just got back from our troop flat-water training weekend. This is a weekend-long "learn to paddle a canoe" activity with some ultimate, soccer, fishing and this year Small boat sailing in the troops "new" 16 foot "Hawk" sailboat, thrown in for "breaks". Except for the green bars this weekend is primarily aimed at 11,12,and 13 year olds... Many, if not all, of the 13 year olds (6 of them) and 3 of the 12 yr olds have "recieved" the Canoeing Merit badge at Summer Camp (six of these this past summer...just 2 months ago)...ONLY 4 scouts (two boats) out of 14 could propel their canoe forward in a vague appoximation of a "semi-straight" line! NONE of the merit badge holders knew how to correctly enter or exit the canoe and five didn't even know how to hold a paddle correctly let alone "stroke" with it. It was like watching the instructors(I was one) "try to drive a herd of cats"! I expected the challenges of the NSP scouts, but was very disapointed buy the overall lack of knowledge and basic skills exibited by canoing M.B. holders. Of course, I wish there was a way to withdraw those M.B.s but that is water already under the canoe (under the bridge)so to speak... I HOPE SOME CAMP DIRECTORS ARE READING THIS FORUM! Two summer camps are certainly suspect now in my "book" and I will actively discourage the troop from using them... The second bit is more distressing (personally)...My youngest, (star, pretty good scout) has "stopped" working towards rank. Two summer ago (2004), he did Sea Base and had a blast...He finished his year as a troop guide, declined the Scoutmaster's request to run for SPL and this past summer he also declined to go to summercamp. He did participate in our 110 mile canoe trip on the James River so I did not "push" summer camp... Yesterday evening, while I was cleaning-up, unpacking the gear, washing down canoes, having a cold one (you know the drill), I was recounting the weekend canoe "circus" to my wife. Then she told me that the reason "number two son" has stopped working on M.B.s (and thus life rank)is because so many boys are advancing with "bogus" Merit Badges and bogus sign offs! He has told his mother that as far as he is concerned summer camp M.B.s are a sorry joke and he would be embarrassed and rather not stand in front of the CoHs receiving "garbage-worthless" ranks and M.B.s! He told her he has friends in other troops who have recieved major Merit Badges for just going to camp and showing up...who have takedn group first aid classes and never answered a question but recieved credit for it towards rank...boys who couldn't tell a square lash from a shear...but got pioneering for helping drag poles and lifting up the towers! Boys who have used the same three hour service project for two different ranks! He is sorely disillusioned but wouldn't really come out and tell me. He still wants to camp and work service projects but he has lost his desire to "work on give aways". Why should he "do the work"(cause dad does not let him "skate by") when others are given the same badges for going through the motions, playing "magic" or sleeping in M.B. class at summer camp? ...He has a point... I am thinking now that serious consideration (by BSA)should be given to allowing NO Eagle required M.B.s be signed off at summer camps and further I am now rethinking who in a troop should be allowed to sign off on rank accomplishments...this has been rather unsettling and I think I'll be talking at length at our next troop cracker barrel... anarchist