anarchist

happytot, Ditto on the three hour campfire....way too long...better an hour...if multiple fire rings are available, get the word out that afterwards the dens can do s'mores and cocoa at their own fire campfires (rings!). If your group is large, s'mores and toasted 'mallows tend to lend themselves to 'accidents' and mishaps...better done in small groups ...just be sure they remember to bring wood...(if it's necessary)...in many areas, after a busy summer camping season, many camp-sites have been "picked clean" of "easy firewood". if you have the wonderful luck of having good Den Chiefs ask them to do a few "lead-in" skits...sort of an opening act. It sets the stage and helps the cubs "loosen" up and enjoy doing their own skits. "muffin man" song (when expanded into the 'audience')helps loosen up the adults and gets them in the spirit of the campfire. wind down with an "inspirational"...find a couple of good Scoutmaster minutes ... and as a closing, we always like to do a "scout circle" (scouts arms crossed {right over left..no the other right!}, facing the fire, hands joined )as a closing...Cubmaster will say, "may the great Scoutmaster of all scouts be with you until we meet again, good night scouts" (scouts raise arms and turn about without having to release the hands of their fellow scouts and quietly walk away)...effective and settling if done quietly...'course can be funny if the boys don't understand the technique. have a few large buckets of water and a couple of shovels handy, appoint one or two of your den chiefs or parents as fire marshalls to watch for stray embers and to keep the fire under (watchful) control...garden sprayers (pump type)full of water are excellent for ember control! one small "be prepared" for you; Know the fire regulations!Depending on your area and the rainfall situation. If your area has been dry (like ours has), you may find fire bans in effect...call someone ahead of time! If it is a park -the ranger station can tell you; if it is a commercial campground the operators will know...Sometimes it is an outright ban...some times it "only" requires all fires to be in a container with a steel screen (1/4inch) cover...we've been down that road...If you run into this find someone to cut a fifty-five gallon drum in half length-wise. four pipes welded onto each as legs or even just a couple of rows of cinderblocks can be used to stabilize the "cans". set side by side and covered with steel mesh, makes a fair "campfire"...this can keep you from having to cancel...but you need time to react, so call now if dry weather is an issue. have fun and good luck anarchist

jw_elder77, first the sheer lash is actually easier than tying you own shoes (check it out) a hitch, wrap around a bunch followed by another clove hitch... course you could just pick up two different sized pieces of plastic water pipe and glue a threaded screw coupling on both ends...if you can find the right pipe sizes and a "reducing" coupling you can make it so one pole slides nearly all the way into the first piece...however at "twenty feet" it ain't gonna be terribly stiff...most plastic pipe is fairly flexible in ten foot lengths (at twenty feet it might have a bit of a curve in it... just my $3.25 per gallon worth anarchist

First I would like to apologize to FScouter for mischaracterizing his comment...my using "Value" when he actually wrote "all prices are Fair" (definition as in: Fair-reasonable or just, even handed, adequate)..so I guess I should have said...that his statement on its face was incorrect...not all prices are fair (eg. $1,500 for a coffee pot or a hammer... as in DOD price lists)...just because a sale is made does not mean the price is fair...simply put the price is agreeable to the purchaser for his own needs or reasons (and Yes FScouter my friend I am an antagonist...most anarchists are arn't they? I have a difficult time with Absolutes...its a vision thing, I was never able to see in absolute Black and White) But do accept my apology for a hasty mistake. My three fingers often type faster than my feeble brain can transmit. And Dear old B.W.,In this thread a "fair" question was asked and just because it isn't in lock step with your vision of the BSA world, the other side is tarred with the complainer label. The same old malcontents... Most of us don't give a darning needle about others selling popcorn ...you can have it, bon appetite!... But when councils start withholding appoval of other fund raisers... Say, if your unit does not participate in popcorn sales or when BSA requires units to justify "fair value" for a product to be sold vs. price paid, BUT CAN NOT do the same for its own "private lable" popcorn... let alone allowing boys to wear uniforms for popcorn sales (a poor value to cost ratio) while not letting units wear uniforms to sell... say, meals ( a much better value) all because a unit does not "do" popcorn...the term hypocrisy does come to mind...but perhaps thats too black and white...maybe its just extortion. tossin out another cocktail anarchist

mbscoutmom, EagleInKY... sorta nails it...fiscally you need to determine what the dues pay for (example if dues pay for all the awards and patches and if the boys will earn awards this year (later?) and patches (later?)they should pay now or pay individually for the patches etc.,...if it is for activities they will not take part in, the story changes a bit...but you do need to be fiscally responcible as well as fair in the decision. anarchist

B.W. There you go painting all of us with a wide brush again...Our unit(s) (both troop and pack) have a devil of a time with popcorn...we are rural...winding country roads, no sidewalks, long driveways (mine is 3/4 of a mile long) and hundreds of yards between most houses. Door to door sales are problematic and dangerous Taking popcorn "into town" 'crosses' into other units "territory"... a no-no with our district... and many if not most are self employed or work for small companies. We cannot support our unit with popcorn or any door to door items and that is the major reason we don't like popcorn sales ( that "it" is an over priced, value challenged endeavor ergo an ethical problem is secondary). Seemingly, B.W. (as always?) those in the BSA family with problems...are just whiners ... they just don't belong in your world of scouting...We all can't (thank God) live in wall to wall suburban housing tracts where going door to door is a piece of cake... (one shoe does not fit everone)...But we can have community wide church suppers, sunrise breakfasts, and BBQ dinners to help us get over the "hump"...and not have to compete with the GS cookies, candy from school track teams, Christmas wrap from PTA, discount cards from cross country teams, discount coupons from soccer the team and christmas wreaths, frozen pizzas, bedding plants and candles from several other school clubs...all of whom ask/demand of our boys certain amounts of "selling" time... and FScouter - you definition is incorrect..."Value" is not necessarily what two parties agree to take/pay for an article/item in all transactions. In the arena of "charity sales" a "monitary gift" is implied and understood as the primary reason for the sale and purchase...otherwise, why on earth would anyone in their right mind pay eighteen dollars for thee dollars worth of popcorn... The point most are making here(or trying to make), is the "gift" being requested seems to be getting larger and larger but the produce exchanged remains the same or even of less "value"...not only ethical but a financial problem for some units... anarchist

easier to teach the a shear lashing and give them two long dowels...then take along two three foot sections on re-bar a big hammer and four sections of 1/4 inch rope (plus a line for the pole and a few small carbiners...)

Its Me, there is nothing I know of that says your Webs can't be a patrol...My Web IIs all switched from being den 4 to being the "shark patrol"...I started them with a rotating patrol leader and started on camp cooking and had several family campouts... we were blessed with a real good group of parents who were not afraid of the outdoors...one of the best times the parents had (and they still tell me about it), was the first time their boys cooked a complete dinner for all the adults...start to finish including clean-up...dads (and one mom) all just sat around while my boys did it all...with me hovering in the background... TEACH and PLAY! We hiked, camped, went fishing,learned to clean and cook the fish we caught, started flat water canoeing (7 of eight parents had canoes by the end of WebII year! A great two years, now four of the eight boys are on their way to eagle, two moved away (one is still in scouting) one dropped out, he, literally, became deathly allergic to leaf mold and poison ivy...actually ended up in the hospital after a camping trip with his dad....the last succumbed to the "Fumes"... Don't push too hard, but using your group as guides, give them what they need...and always remember the program is for them not us... we can do 'greater' things on our own.... anarchist

Its Me, ARRRGGGGHHH! Please! How can teaching academics be a waste of time? You don't really want to dumb down our kids, do you? With knowledge more is better! And, if a professional educater has already done a great job and you find you boys already know the material...let them know how proud and surprised you are that they are so smart(they will like that!) and then move on up! Better than feeling like you are wasting your time(that's my rant).... You are just "itching" to get to Boys Scouts aren't you?! Thought so! Slow down take a deep breath and be patient, zen like,... it will come. What is it you want to do? camping, white water canoes, rock climbing caving? it will come...in time... ...but not if you let your guys know what they are doing is boring...or dumb...or a waste of your and their time...they will turn off and drop out...so perhaps to answer the answer to your last question is... It is not the program but the way the program leaders present it that is responcible for the large drop rate between Webs and Boy Scouting? A note here: Our troop recruits from three packs- two very large packs and one small pack..."Webelos to Boyscout" retention in the small pack has been nearly 100% for the last 7 or 8 years...and Web II den leaders almost always cross with their boys and become ASM's. Retention/crossover rates from the large packs is more like 45-60 % and about half of the web leaders have no intention of coming to Boy Scouting with their boys...later (tenderfoot-star)drop out rates for the boys from larger packs also seem to be higher though I am still crunching these numbers...(I would be interested in learning of others experience) Now, Its Me...your turn...what would you do differently? what would you like to see in the Webelos program? Fewer activity pins so more "meat" can be in each remaining activity? More of something else or do we just have them do tenderfoot requirements as 9 and 10 year olds and find something else for the Boy Scouts to do? just asking. anarchist

cdroberts94, on the tackle box: It is a two sided briefcase style box. Much larger than a small first aid kit but still easy to toss into the truck...PM me with an email address and I will take a few digital photos and zing 'em your way anarchist

OGE is dead on here...though ours usually take 25-30 minutes...we do actively encourage several questions from the scout being reviewed(I find I learn as much by what questions are asked as I learn from asking questions)... We have had a couple of Eagle boards recently that took nearly two hours...I was not present at one and out in the hall for the other(my son)...Turned out that in both cases the outcome was not in doubt...the board just couldn't get the scouts to "shut up". Both scouts answered questions with LONNNGGG responces. Think you need to get the committee and the Scoutmaster corps together for a long chat (not yelling), maybe a big pot of decafe, and review what the BoRs are all about...lots of literature out "on the net" to print and hand out...I would think, if you make the meeting a larger grouping (rather than smaller)you stand a better chance of "turning" the AC and CC from... the "dark side"...(sorry, couldn't help myself). Anarchist

Slightly off topic-a history lesson SueM not to nit pick but "THEY" didn't cook the first Thanksgiving dinner...some of my ancestors provided "carry out"...:>) anarchist

cdrobert94, bbng gives good advise...after you get it ironed out you might want to see if your committee wants to establish an "awards store..." My old pack let me do this many moons ago...As a new tiger dad, I got so tired of hearing at the Pack meetings..."jonnie earned his____,...but the awards didn't come in yet" or "the scout shop was out of...", or behind the scenes... "the webelo leader never gets his order in on time and I get the heat for it" That I volunteered to get the awards... we did try the "dead line thing" but it still boiled down to adults screwing things up for the kids...It is not the wolf's fault that his leader didn't send in the paperwork...so what we worked out was that over the course of a few months we purchased a few extras here and there and at the end of that scout year we took some of the surplus (we had one) and I bought a few of this and a few of that....until I had a good supply of most of the regular awards...It is all contained in a neat PLano fishing tackle box that is perfect for this use. At any time I now have at least half of all the rank awards we might need in a year...if there is a 9 boy wolf den I always have 4 or five wolf badges and pins. In addition to Rank awards I have a few of every Webelo activities pin and many bags of belt loops, service stars, I did my best ribbons, a few 1st, second, third, ribbons, wittling chip patches etc. I even have a batch of uniform shirt buttons and small safety pins... How do you organize this? Film canisters! we use markes and for activity pins and rank I made small photo copies of the icons and glued them to the canisters...easy to organize and if I am not available I can send the "box" We still ask that the Den Leaders do their jobs and email me what they need at least a week before the Pack Meeting...but now we have a cushion a small insurance policy against disappointment...and it almost always works... I haven't had a boy in cubs for five + years now and I am still "awards guy" as well as assistant cubmaster and a troop committee member)...but not advancement chair... it does seem to help the pack though. good luck and thanks for what you are doing anarchist

Great posts all, ItsMe seems to be distressed that what we ask of 10 year olds needs to be ...I don't know tougher...earlier in another post it was needed to be "more fun"... with in reason ItsMe, you can introduce the Webs to more...you just can't "require" it for program rank...If your boys want to do more...and parents don't object... go for it! But I think SWScouter and molscouter are leading you correctly...lots of crossover between activities (pins) and Boy Scout ranks...just in understandably more areas...remember WEBELOS is a transition to Boys Scouts and that takes nothing from either program. Do you use the program helps in your Pack??? They can help with ideas and excitment. anarchist

Hey ADLee, how long, how involved do you want to be? You can do a lot of "gimmick" cooking which kids love..."breakfast in a plastic bag" (boiled eggs), breakfast in a paper bag (Eggs and Bacon in a bag on a stick, over a fire), cinnamon bread on a stick, or you can get absolutely nutz...several full meals going at one time all day long...(we did this at Scouting on the national Mall a few years ago...it was great (and filling). If you are looking for quick and painless...pancakes on a D.O. top or griddle, soft taco s'mores in a D.O.- which kids love, dump cobblers, biscuit donuts in a D.O., breakfast burritos are great- sausage and eggs in fried in one pot at same time (after sausage is "done" of course) spooned on soft tacos with all the fixins (we can do this and dirty up only a few tools and one pot and some towels...great for getting on the road early without going the pop tart route. or you could demonstrate a "Troop MAC muffin" assembly line- with 1). english muffins or bagels being handed out- toasted on the open flame of a stove (if wanted)... 2). one patrol kitchen frying eggs,...3). one patrol frying bacon and sausage patties,... 4). a place to pick up a slice of cheese, a drink and a napkin or three...no scout dishes dirty 'cept a cup and only a few pots/skillets dirty "over" the entire troop...another hearty but "quick out" breakfast. D.O. "roast and roots" (meat taters, onions and carrots) is easy to do (but not so fast-2hours)and quick to clean up... D.O. pizzas (english muffins can be used) Cardboard box oven pizzas or biscuits big pot of pinto beans and fatback..er ...forgot these are girl scouts :>) fried squash, bell pepers and onions...add cheeze and bacon dripping to turn it from healthy to hazardous to your health and even more delicious! do you want to get into bread? Most girls love baking bread...(oh my gosh, maybe thats my trouble am I a girl?:>) D.O. baking, Fried bread or Bannocks? corn bread...in a frying pan or a D.O. is wonderful... do demonstrate sanitation, explain wash stations and different methods of sterilizing...boys love to see you "wash" a pot with dirt and or sand...girls???? and do show them how to carry and use spices (in small containers-even film canisters)so they don't need to raid and ruin moms spice rack. when we did the Scouting on the Mall "thing" we had a dad in the restaurant supply industry and his company donated a couple of thousand small "sample size" cups and spoons...we gave away samples as the meals came "on line" there was a long line of folks wanting a taste...we heard comments like; "Everyone said this was the troop to visit", "when is the next meal gonna be ready?", "can we buy a meal?", "This was worth walking accross the Mall for!" "can I have more, please"...(or was that a play I saw???) Anyway the boys cooked and answered questions all day long...And they (our scouts)were extremely proud that a large number of women asked them questions and seemed to be impressed about what scouts could do- cooking outdoors. It was great!...course it did end up costing the troop nearly $500 in food and supplies...but thats what we do, right?!? good luck and eat well anarchist

Isn't this a second post-same subject???

Its Me, Evening tutoring.??..only if you make it so... school work?...perhaps but the Webelos process is one of maturation...moving from "arts and crafts" to more one detailed...to the more independent work of Boy Scouting. Citizenship of the Community, of the Nation and of the World are three important (Eagle required Merit badges) they require a certain amout of self motivation and research...the Webelos program is part of this, sort of the foundation... Much of scouting is a "build upon" structure...topics are repeated each rank level to introduce the boys annually to a deeper level of understanding...not knowing what kind of group or facility are present in each den across the country means BSA can only outline the program...We put the meat on the bones...Our Webelos program did lots of weekend activities (sorry I know its more work). My Webs and My older son's WebIIs treked to Washington D.C. to visit the Vietnam Memorial and Arlington National Cemetery as part of our Citizenship program. We had some vets come in to "tell war stories"...far from boring! We did a flag ceremony...then each boy "designed" his own flag ceremony and rehearsed them and then led the Webs in presenting them for the pack at several meetings.... The program is different, no doubt, but only the presenter can be blamed if it is dull...As with all things, for an exciting program some leaders are better than others...but in the end it usually boils down to drive and motivation...if we are willing to work to make it exciting...we can do it...if we decide the cause is "lost" because its boring...it probably is (both lost and boring) YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE IF YOU STEP UP. look for something more than lesson plans...if you don't want it to be like school then you make it not like school! Make it more fun...it ain't easy but it ain't as hard as you seem to think! good luck Anarchist

Vallium comes to mind...for you that is..cubbies need a stronger prescription! capture the flag can be done with multiple teams (more than two) which makes it even crazier! (large field needed with no traffic "issues") If you have the use of den chiefs they can run some "relays" indoors -if weather is a factor...Iceburg relay(two sheets of paper per team); Ball pass (over under); feather pass; bean bag balence races (on the head...no hands)...crab races...endless stuff. CANDY PRIZES are Fun! Small snacks? Sing along (muffin man is lots of fun...it helps "break the ice" with the parents "brought in" un-expectedly) soft rope= tug-o-war! Might ask some of your new WEBELOS IIs to bring in a couple of their pinewood cars set up a 'display' and "explain" the process to the new cubs and their parents...(each WebII should have 3 or 4 cars at home and it helps build excitement). Just be sure the display area is out of reach and off limits to the younger scouts (post a guard)...you don't want 'mishandled cars'(Webs have been known to cry, too)... this can be used to give you time to have a business meeting with the parents...rope in new den leaders etc... good luck Anarchist(This message has been edited by anarchist)

ASM59, Since I love murdering cliches...remember: There is no "I" in Troop....or Scouts or patrol...(ya gotta love it). Our troop adult leaders (Scouters) motto is "IF A SCOUT CAN DO IT, ADULTS DON'T!". Have your SPL and PLC assign the job to the patrols. Help them, Guide them, but let them "own" this project...as you said "The Scouts of our troop have completed ..." Maybe, putting the brochure together could be used for a communication "project" ...merit badge? With the "power" of some of the publishing software out 'there' I am sure your guys can pull this off! anarchist

Its Me. 85 minutes? Knowledge is not boring...only the teacher or Web leader is boring... each of those topics can be turned into a challenge and a fun activity. But if your attitude is that this stuff is boring...that is what you convey to your kids. One of the things that make a great teacher is the ability to make the 'topic' sound cool, exciting, glamourous, fun, ...("all of the above")... Think about it for a minute...pick your best teacher...(subject is not important)... In almost all cases the "best" teacher has taught the same "stuff" to four or five classes a day, week after week after week... for years! But what makes them great teachers is the ability to excite the students with this "same ol" material... Recently in a poll, 30% of the "population" thought that the three branches of government were the Republicans the Democrats and Independents! It would be in our best interests to make sure these boys understood a little more than that... and if you are planning a Webelos citizenship class for 85 straight minutes ...I pity your boys...These requirements should be done over time... not in one or even two nights! I have not met a scout yet that didn't want to learn a flag ceremony..and so use it! Hold a flag retirement...lots of flags available....do not just sit on your butts...DO IT, make it real. And the fitness section perhaps, should really be called fitness and Health...with thirty percent of the youth population over-weight (dare I say fat?) what is wrong with identifying good food? -plan a camp menu with only health food. And then, helping kids learn that alcohol, drugs and tobacco can kill you is boring? Trust me, you bring in so color glossy prints of brain, lung, stomach or mouth tissue with tobacco damage (adventist hospitals used to have plenty of hand-outs on the subject... and Webs 'eat it up', school work or not... But in the end, whether it is boring or not is up to the leader...the question really is , is the leader up to it???

G'day ASM59, "The Scouts of out troop have completed....where I can find a good resource..." question? When did the "Scouts of our troop" metamorph into "I"? I see a teaching moment (hours more likely) here. What would be wrong with giving each of the "sign posts"to a group of scouts to research and identify the subject species. Local library has several guide books and on line research is also an option...State Ag service, (extention service here in Va) has folks who might even be willing to come out and help on site, might even lead a "class" and they have LOTS of local plant info. This is a great time for plant Identification; you have leaves still attached to trees (no guessing), fruit/nuts hanging or right under on the ground, easy to 'see' tree "form/shape" and bark to assist in the identification. Take lots of pictures for your brochure, color of leaves (now and as they turn?) shape of tree...then edit (use what you want and toss the rest)...but let the guys do this...they will learn more by doing...about every thing not just plants (maybe use for nature merit badge also?) anarchist

In the goodold days your local home town banker just opened and account and got an address for mailing the statement. Now you will be asked to supply a SSN or an employer tax Id number. If your CO is a non profit or church you will use their number- ask them for the number (and their permission of course). Taxes, if you were chartered to a business or a for profit organization would be reported through their P&L statement...Cub Packs belong to the C.O. your money is their money (so to speak)

CNYScouter, OGE and Semper have made a great rcommendation...in addition to a good water front program, this DEL-MAR-VA camp seems to be able to instill in its youth staff a can do attitude and Staff treats you and you scouts like you are valued clients not a bunch a yahoos disturbing their (the staff's) summer vacation. Too often we have seen indifference and boredom from youth staff...but not at Rodney...Call now!... and check...if full for next year book for 2007...then ask them for the phone number of Camp Henson...this is a sister camp and except for the lack of a sailing program is almost as good...It is on a river (Nanicoke)...One year I was called to step in for a "Transport parent" who had an an emergency and the troop needed my truck to drive up and carry gear back... When I arrived at the camp I listened as several of the younger scouts were talking among themselves about what they were going to do the next summer...when they camp back to Henson...they had not even left yet and were talking about going back! Good camps! anarchist

scripter try these? http://www.gohcr.com North Little Rock, AR As seen nationally on HGTV, ESPN2, Midwest Living,Ladies Home Journal and Family Fun magazines, next to the pristine Buffalo National River wilderness near Jasper, Arkansas. Owned and managed by four generations of the Johnson family, HCR offers guests a "Western experience with Southern Hospitality." Six-day week includes meals, lots of riding, cave trip and comfortable, rustic log cabins with spectacular views of rolling meadows and high cliffs. Other activities include pool, hot tub, campfires, canoeing, hiking, rock climbing, elk viewing, cookouts, shooting, line dancing, river swimming, climbing-wall, petting zoo, fishing pond, lodge games and more. Credit cards accepted. We recommend early booking. Riding / Riding Instructions Cattle / Cattle Drives Fishing Childrens Program Adult Weeks River Rafting Swimming Pool Hot Tub/Sauna Cabins - Accommodation Group Meetings Skeet/Trap Shooting Capacity 67 Price category: $ Scott Valley Ranch http://www.scottvalley.com/ Mountain Home, AR For 50 years guests have experienced this never-to-be-forgotten vacation! As a Family Circle "Family Resort of the Year" and featured in travel books and magazines like "Best Bargain Vacations in the USA", "Fodors Travel", "Fantastic Family Gatherings", "GH", "Best Places to Stay in the South", the referrals are boundless! This is a don't miss adventure with world class trout fishing on the famous White and North Fork Rivers, pool, whirlpool, tennis, game room and much more. Superb Missouri Fox Trotting horses raised and trained, not for show, but for our guests to have the finest mounts. Ask about our all Adult Weeks, for some great riding adventures. Riding / Riding Instructions Fishing Adult Weeks Overnight Pack Trips River Rafting Swimming Pool Hot Tub/Sauna Cabins - Accommodation Lodge - Accommodation Group Meetings Capacity 45 Price category: $ or these Wapiti Meadow Ranch http://www.guestranches.com/wapiti Cascade, ID Wapiti Meadow is nestled in a spectacular mountain valley with lush green meadows bordered by heavily timbered slopes and rushing mountain streams, a wilderness retreat with all the amenities of civilization. Our limited number of adult guests allows us to individualize activities. Unlimited trail riding, Orvis Endorsed fly fishing, gold panning, ghost town exploration, stocked trout ponds, wild salmon spawning stream, outdoor spa. Private cabins, "Hearty Gourmet" dining. Awake to elk, deer & moose grazing in the meadow. Drive or fly direct from Boise - 120 miles, Sun Valley - 85 miles. Winter escapes. Brochure available. Contact Diana and Barry Bryant. Visit our web site at http://www.guestranches.com/wapiti. Riding / Riding Instructions Fishing Overnight Pack Trips Hot Tub/Sauna Cabins - Accommodation Group Meetings Capacity 12 Price category: $$$$ Western Pleasure Guest Ranch http://www.westernpleasureranch.com Sandpoint, ID Located on 960 acres of summer pastures with tall pines and breathtaking views of the Selkirk and Cabinet mountain ranges is the Western Pleasure Guest Ranch. A fourth generation cattle ranch that has been operating on the same land since 1940. The ranch is located in Idaho's scenic Panhandle region, about 16 miles northeast of Sandpoint, Idaho. Roley and Janice Schoonover, and her parents, ranchers Jim and Virginia Wood, have transformed this historic ranch into one of Idaho's quality guest ranches. Your hosts Roley and Janice, share their love for their family ranch along with the rich history, beauty and traditions of the area. Western Pleasure is for folks who appreciate sincere, real country hospitality, while enjoying beautiful handcrafted log accommodation. Riding / Riding Instructions Cattle / Cattle Drives Fishing Hot Tub/Sauna Cabins - Accommodation Lodge - Accommodation Capacity 15 Price category: $$ check Ohio also

Hey rpushies, did you hear the one about the DE??? they gave him prune juice and cabbage for supper... and he woke-up the next morning ... a Scout Master anarchist

for a cattle drive in the East, good luck, but I doubt you will find what you are looking for ...heck most of my friends ride flat saddles... really, a "drive" type experience takes an incredable amout of land...something we a rapidly loosing here in the east... and then there is having a herd to drive... you might check the web for "ranches" in the Tennessee, Kentucky, Arksnsas area for a long trail ride experience. whats wrong with going where the couboys did their thing? should be home cleaning stalls anarchist