Gunny2862

BUT, promoting BSA like that gives the store away. The Scouts aren't supposed to know we're guiding them through that process. I do think it's a great way to explain Scouting to adults who might try to get their Sons to try it though.

We do service projects, in our family, as a matter of course. I find it hard to believe that Scouts can go six months without getting service hours in. My son did six hours the Saturday after his CoH presentation to 2nd class and will certainly have 15-60 more before he is ready for first. Not because we make him but because he still see's it as fun. Now if I can get his internal mindset across to the other Scouts...

My experience with web content delivery is that when organizations take that route they tend to drop deadlines that are hard fixtures in the print publishing process quality tends to suffer and the content itself gets watered down. Unless there is a real commitment to maintain the content I can see this being a very bad thing. That said, I also prefer the paper copy for reasons stated above, it's great bathroom reading and I haven't installed my laptop swing arm over the porcelain fixture yet.

Welcome aboard!

concur. Welcome!

Let's let the other thread run its religious debate. Any other "Politicos" out there?

I(and the wife) only register with a party to be able to vote in primaries. My wife and I are issues and ability voters - we look at the candidates available and vote for who we each think will do the best job and do at least the least harm and hopefully the most good. (So, no real party loyalty). It's a shame but we don't do third party candidates because we think we should have a real impact on the vote. But it's a chicken and egg thing I guess, no votes for third party - no viable candidate v. no viable candidates - no third party votes. I do wish we could get out of the current divisive and apparently ineffectual two-party trap - which in action looks a lot like big government on either side.

I understand the frustration of parents who's child seems to outgrow their clothing overnight - I am one - my 14 year old currently is 6'2", when he joined Scouting about 15 months ago he was about 5'7". Shoe size has gone from a 7 1/2 to a 12. One pair of Trousers isn't going to make it over the long haul in an active Troop unless the Scout just doesn't grow. So the idea of buying one pair and using them for a long time just isn't practicable for most. It's great for those who can but the reality is that most of us will buy a new pair every year to a year and a half to accommodate growth of the child. And in terms of cost unless the sports team provides uniforms we are usually out-of-pocket for uniforms each year so this is kind of just the same thing only for Scouting. For my son we intentionally bought long each time we bought, and on the first and second time anticipating growth spurts bought a little wider than looked good at the moment of purchase too. My son and I both think National has really bit the big one on the ankle zipper this time. He(and I) couldn't believe after getting that part right on the Switchbacks that they dropped that feature on the "activity" friendly uniform. It would be one thing not to have those zippers on a "dress" trouser but for field work they were just a really big feature that I will have a hard time getting past when I have to replace my Switchbacks - and is one of the things that could take me out of uniform and into Columbia's or another maker when hiking etc.

It is possible that the people who are advocating staying "local" are trying to keep Scouts who see each other at School and in their daily lives together which is often a good strategy for keeping them involved with each other and in Scouting over the long haul. However, you may and should join the Troop which best serves your needs. You are not wrong for putting choice out for other parents to look at different Troops - their son might not stick with the "local" troop but might continue on with a different group. Each Scout and their parents should be able to decide.

I haven't been able to find something like what I think you are asking for. There are lots of Eagle CoH forms out there but I can't find any for a "standard " CoH. For us, I prefer to have the Scouts(SPL) do one for themselves without using a template. We do keep the program handout (bulletins) from each CoH and allow them to look those over but most SPL's have been around long enough to come up with their own plan for how they want the CoH to run. It causes them to communicate with the prior SPL who was responsible for the program portion and to think about what the CoH is, and what it is about. The Adults do schedule the CoH's(although we would respond to a reasonable request for a "special" one from the SPL) and provide refreshments and "cracker barrel" time afterward but the program portion is something each SPL comes up with and modifies depending on if there are rank advancements or an Eagle he wants to invite to speak or just the normal celebration of completion of merit badges.

Uh, okay, but from the ignorant position, isn't the Scoutmaster Award of merit a NESA award? And doesn't the concurrence requirement fall aside because a another organization(NESA, that is recognized by BSA and is allowing the wear of this award) is awarding it at the request of the PLC and Troop Committee rather than it being an earned award through BSA? Documentation to refute, anyone?

For Pete - no reference to this as to the new uniform for me. We will allow the wearing of existing uniform and have asked parents to buy the new uniform as the old one - becomes unwearable due to age, wear or size and in the case of simply buying new/additional pieces. The fact that the Troop will be mix and match is of less importance to me than that they all wear uniform parts. In this area I still haven't ever seen a full and correctly uniformed Troop or Patrol. Would I like to see it, sure, even hopefully starting with my Troop but until I can buy for everyone AND can enforce the wearing of same - well it just isn't likely. Now we do look uniform in that everyone will wear the Field shirt with jeans on occasion, but then even the Scoutmaster is not looking like everyone else since I wear my Switchbacks (almost) without exception.

ursus snorous roarus, I think artjrk summarized my thoughts well. I was just trying to list a few possible scenarios and what I would think in each.

It would appear that one must look at the awards one is trying to earn and determine if concurrency of tenure is allowed... From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-56.pdf "SCOUTMASTERS KEY" - "Tenure Complete at least 3 years of registered tenure as a Scoutmaster within a 5-year period (can include the tenure used to earn the Scouters Award)." From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-55.pdf "BOY SCOUT LEADERs TRAINING AWARD" - "TENURE Complete a total of 2 years as a registered adult Boy Scout leader." and in relation to the question asked specifically, see BOY SCOUT LEADERs TRAINING AWARD above and the rest below... From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-62.pdf "DISTRICT AND ASSISTANT DISTRICT COMMISSIONER PROGRESS RECORD FOR THE COMMISSIONER KEY/ ARROWHEAD HONOR AWARD" - TENURE Complete 3 years as a registered commissionerwithin a 5-year period. Tenure for one award cannot be used for other training awards." From: http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34169-59.pdf "VENTURING LEADER TRAINING AWARD" - "Tenure Complete a total of two years as a registered adult Venturing leader. (Dates of service used to earn this award cannot be used to earn another key or award.)" So it would appear to me that in the question asked they would have to be done separately. In conjunction with the above, I would ask IF they were going to be done concurrently then is the individual a Commissioner for either of the other two units? Now while I like concurrency for tenure in different units if the individual is doing the work and not just riding the charters and would like to SEE a ruling from national about concurrent service in DIFFERENT units(and think it should be allowed) it would seem that since they have specifically made allowance for concurrence in the case of certain awards that concurrence isn't allowed where they are both not specifically allowing it and, in fact, proscribing it at the same time. But that's just the way I'm reading it. (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Common sense a product often in short supply... But for me it comes down to the activity being pursued.(below is my opinion only) If doing the opening (or any other static type activity)at a Troop meeting then tucked, if doing an active activity (game time, etc.)- not chasing anyone down to ask them to tuck it. If traveling and stopping at a rest stop - tucked. If hiking and choosing to wear the field uniform then untucked can certainly be appropriate. If wearing the field uniform on a work project then I might wonder why, if it were chosen to be worn why it wouldn't be tucked - because if it needs to be untucked then shouldn't the job call for an activity uniform? I don't know of a guideline that is printed that is specific about this but I would suspect that the inspection guide would tell one that an untucked shirt is a gig and would so indicate to some that it should always be tucked. For me, if one is wearing the field uniform then, in general, I would expect to see it tucked. But I also see room for reasonable exceptions.

NOT buying any more parts of the old uniform(except possibly switchback trousers) unless DEEP, DEEP discounts are applied(75% or better. Am not especially enamored of the new edition switchbacks, I think they should have retained the zipper at the bottom. But when it's time I'll be buying them - I just hope there is another generation of them that comes back with that zipper.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Way to go, Dan!

SctDad, Good point and one I would like the Scouts to encounter while doing this project If it were to become a requirement. The Guard and Reserve service is in no way "lesser" any more - if it ever was. Our local Guard outfit is deployed about at about a 60% rate. Our local USMC Reserve unit is deploying at about a 70% rate. Having spent a few years on the Reserve side that kind of deployment ratio pretty much kills your career (if you have one) outside of the military except for in a very few, very fortunate situations.

The routine labor argument seems to me to be a straw man argument in some way. It's not about what labor gets done, it's whether or not the Eagle candidate exercised leadership in arranging for the labor to be performed and in supervising such labor in a leadership role. Our council would tend to disapprove Food Drives, etc. also. But opening a Trail, rebuilding a bad section of a Trail would probably make the grade if the work was deemed necessary by the Landowner/Gov't agency but routine Trail maintenance still wouldn't.

That'd be good, the Guard rarely get's its due recognition. Even just a short essay 1-2 pages could enlighten Scouts on how much many Guards and Reservists put on hold to take care of even natural disaster items like Hurricane Katrina, etc.

In what way would you propose they be included? Should a requirement to research the service of one member of the Patrol, Troop, District or Council be included? It would be a way to generate a Military service and the Troop section for your Troop history. It sounds interesting but what do you have in mind? They could also investigate helping on one interview for the Veterans history project, http://www.loc.gov/vets/

I don't know of any near your Council but I know that your Local NRA Instructor is another place to look. Also, check with your council office for the contact info for the "Camp Rangemaster" last year - he'll probably have good info on whom to contact for your training needs in that area.

I realize that I am reading into the post(but am trying to figure out WHY he might be less than enthusiastic about it - since it looks like an activity I would want to encourage), but is it possible that the ASM was/is concerned that the trip is for a clique of Scouts and not open to either a whole patrol or to the whole Troop (as qualified)? If a parent or group of boys was planning a trip that would be one of my concerns if they were bypassing the SM. Did the ASM understand that they were going to present the plan to the SM before he decided to be less than enthusiastic about it? I see where you say they were gathering info to present to the SM/ASM and think that's great that they were initiating a trip proposal. I would very much want to encourage that!

Lisabob, At the time I retired from the Corps, those with previous Tats were grandfathered in but could get no new tats that showed while wearing boxers and a T-shirt(My last command actually had the medical staff do an inventory for the members record book). Sorry I don't have the reference and am not that worried about it. Those without previous tats were counseled against them but the prohibition ran towards any that would be visible when wearing boxers and a T-Shirt. I am unaware of Tattoo prohibitions for any other Service except that I believe that, In General Officers aren't to have tats that show when wearing boxers and a T-shirt. And that belief is not backed by viewing any regulation but by observed practice. I also understand that the Service Academies frown on Tats and that having one MIGHT be a discriminator between two otherwise equal candidates. But haven't seen that codified - if anyone does know of a reference for this I would like to have it, thanks in advance. I don't see any issues with Scout Leaders having Tattoos but as always think the character and personality of the individual are what should get billing over this issue.

Well, if the help you need is a reason not to sign it, then did his project match (resemble) his plan? Did he lead anyone? Did his results match(resemble) his plan? Is the write up complete? It may be up to the BOR to give the final up or down on the completion and leadership quality of his project but they will most likely put a lot of weight on your signature that he completed the project. If he didn't, then don't sign it. It will put a little more pressure on the Scout to show how he did in fact complete it - if the BOR is paying attention - but if he hasn't and doesn't complete the write up how are you supposed to sign off on it being completed? If he does complete the write up you still have the freedom not to sign it and it is still on the Scout to show how the project is complete. But you should still be able to justify your refusal to sign. From this cheap seat and your messages it appears that you have met your responsibilities towards ensuring this Scout had his opportunities to succeed, if he chooses not to do the work then it's his problem not yours.