Gunny2862

At the Boy Scout level, for us, our Troop would pay either travel costs or possibly travel plus up to $10 of the fees for an outing like you describe, depending on our Troop fundraising that year. The rest would be dependent on the Scout raising the rest individually (Scout Account or other)or securing funding from the 1st Community American Trust Bank of Mom and Dad.

I can use either the basement or the garage to dry tents - but why would I do it when a boy can? (Okay, Okay, I still bring home at least two - the one I used and the one my Scout slept in.) And they most often dry out in the garage.

Bob White, does that differ in any way from the type of charter Boy Scouts operates under?

Beavah's comment has a lot of merit. Although our District Training tends to be on the dry side, it does get done and the logistical side is usually handled very well. It's offering enough opportunities to timely meet the demand that could be ramped up - but until I'm ready to give up another weekend I'll hold off on yelling too loudly about it. Our Training committee tends to operate as she suggested - a group of volunteers who weren't satisfied who took it upon themselves to make it better. They do hold the appropriate offices at council but still work in their troops - but largely coordinate the activities of those trainers who are willing to step up and hold training for others. Our University of Scouting -held last weekend - was a great example of how TO do things, the Trainers knew their material (at least in the courses I sat in), kept the classes moving and provided opportunities for "best practices" discussions from the attendees.

Ev or anyone else, IDK, does Girl Scouts have a congressional charter also? If so, when was it granted? If it does then that would possibly explain their allowed use. Also if their founding date was before the 1970's which I certainly believe but don't know that it was then they may have come into common usage early enough to have Girl Scouts recognized as their own commercially viable, and commonly used name that confusion and violation of trademark restrictions are avoided by it's early emergence as well as the differentiation of "Girl" Scouts.

Sorry GW, not following the comment. Who's the nut? And why?

Hey SctDad, I got your point. I think most of us did. You're saying that (only) men whether visitor, staff, or adult leader of a Troop are required to wear a bracelet. And you are correct, I would believe what you are describing to be discrimination. Especially since it is (hopefully) obvious whether the adult is a man or woman without the band. In our case for our camp, the inconvenience is shared by all adults. No band - shouldn't be there - Male/Female, Visitor/Staff/Troop Leader. And our bands don't demarcate by sex, but by functional area of responsibility.

At our BSA Camp EVERYONE, wears reinforced paper bracelets. Staff, Scouts, Venturers, Leaders, Visitors and these are all different colors. But there is no distinction in what color the bracelet is by the sex of the wearer.

Cots are really not the best in any floored tent. Ensure you have some kind of floor protection in place if you use cots in the Timberlines so you don't punch through the floor. Also ensure the cots are in good condition and won't be placing sharp edges in contact with the floor. On the extremely rare occasion that I use a cot in a Timberline (or any other floored tent)I also bring those square rubber exercise mat pieces that link together for floor protection under the cot legs. I would again like to emphasize the preferability of using camp pads or mats rather than cots for short term camping.

"Real America", in all it's glory, is wherever I happen to be at that moment in time. "Real America" went with me on deployments, operations, exercises whether they were "Practice" or "Real World" events to more than 20 different nations over more than 20 years as I did my bidding for the country I served. (Simply traveling thru a country didn't get it on the list above.) Everywhere I went, I found real people with real concerns. And in some of those places where I had other "Real Americans" with me we were able to do service projects on "our own" time for towns or orphanages and thus promote "Real America" to them in the midst of what ever else we were doing at our governments bidding. Real America still exists today, even here at home - and I hope it exists in ALL of my fellow Scouters - WHATEVER their political persuasion may be.

How about a Creative Memories style book of the events that took place under his tenure? With pictures of the Scouts, Scouters he served and the places they all went together, copies of the awards, and recognitions the Troop received during the period? I'd think one of those was the coolest! I also think "The Scoutmaster" plaque available from the Scout Shop is pretty cool but think my first idea is the best.

Good post scoutldr! And agree with all of the rest, there isn't enough info for us to advise you but what you have now is a character issue. Can/will this Scout mend his behavior and attitudes? That is the key question. If he can then on the trail he goes - and then support your SM as he makes this judgment call on Scout Spirit. If he can't then he may be best served by separating him from the Troop - remembering that if that wakes him up and he then makes the required changes(which you should spell out before separating him) then the trail should remain open before but again support your Scoutmaster as he works with the youth in question.

You may want to be the SM while your son is in scouting, but I can't really see the advantage if you are already functioning and trained as an ASM. ( I am currently in the position you seek and to add to the issue my son is currently a First Class Scout who won the last election and is the SPL.) I am going to assume that you currently work with a patrol other than the one your son is in, to avoid any appearance of favoritism and that you do not sign off on his advancement. As the SM you can avoid being involved in most of his advancement (the only things I deal with for my son is the SM conference and his POR performance - with the blessing of the committee) but when he hits a POR you then tend to be involved with his effectiveness in that position. Not that everything the SM does(or doesn't do) isn't already called into question but as the SM EVERYTHING that involves your son gets more scrutiny and because you are SO visible you wind up ensuring that your son occasionally may not get a "free" opportunity that you wouldn't deny another Scout in order to avoid the appearance of impropriety. And Baden-Powell, prevent the day the Boy screws it up and has to answer to the Committee for a BAD judgment call - because as the SM's son he might not get a break that would be given to another Scout - to avoid looking like they were giving favorable treatment. And finally, it's hard for both of you to remember that some of the time Dad is DAD and some of the time Dad is Scoutmaster and some of the time Son is Scout and some of the time Son is SON - and because of this sometime conflicts at Scouting play out at home and Conflicts at home play out in Scouting. It's not the bed of roses you might think it is and I would say that my son and I do very well in this department(so far) - much better than a couple of other local SM's have said they did when in the same position with their sons. I have the position you want, I won't abandon it but I didn't seek it(available warm body who didn't turn it down) and would have been very happy to have continued on in the ASM role. It has it's rewards but consider the drawbacks for you and your son before you press on in seeking it. A couple of additional considerations (I didn't read your message history) Is the current SM doing a good job? - is he looking to leave? - are you fully trained? Is there someone else in the queue for the position who would be better for the Troop?

Good advice so far! But again, try to find out what the deal is away from the Troop, give him a chance to be open about it instead of putting him on the defensive. See if he has prior Scouting experience as a youth, or has ever been an ASM or SM, has he ever served on a well functioning committee? See if he had gone to training for any of the above and if he has been or is seeking training for his current position. If he's not trained and if he's resistant to going get the COR involved - he'll learn real quick that there are people he's responsible to if he doesn't want to go to training. If he goes to training it should fix the problem. If he just doesn't want to run a BSA program but has been to training then again it's a cup of coffee and possible COR involvement. But don't let the first step of having your own cup with him and finding out whats going on from his perspective wait.

... and for your test, you shall fell the mighty oak,.... with an herring! Just make sure it doesn't fall on a pile of SH Aving cream and spla **** on the tent, or we'll be right back where we started.

Grab a cup of coffee, join us as we sit at the campfire. Welcome

jet526, typically we have two youth per tent and one adult per tent when hauling the trailer or "car camping" and then typically we either utilize backpacking tents/tarps/improvise shelter when backpacking. On the occasions that we do use the Expedition tents for Backpacking : (3 Scouts)one person hauls the main tent, one person hauls fly and groundsheet, one person hauls stakes and poles. Any weight inequity is balanced with food supplies. (Adults)(ours) have a tendency to want to sleep alone - if they so choose then they are responsible for their own shelter and won't typically carry a 12 lb unit. I occasionally share with one of the ASM's if he goes and we split it and make up the weight inequity the same way the Scouts do - with other supplies. If I were starting our exposure to these tents out without our existing preconditioned mindset I'd use the guidelines below... There is a lot of room for two Scouts and it's palatial for one adult - I would recommend that situation for Summer camp - as a treat. But for regular camping - go with either 3 or 4 Scouts and two adults per tent(plenty of room to keep gear in the tent with up to 3 people in the tent - otherwise the gear needs a cover and to stay outside). And I'd be really surprised if you didn't find the tents to be cheaper over time than you are supposing - when our three tents were stolen and we replaced them you can't tell the difference between the older ones and the newer ones with about seven years difference between when they were bought. The oldest ones are at least 12 years old now.

When hiking down the trail-eo in an effort to keep ones-self fit One can wind up in a snit When same-self finds they have stepped in the SH- AVING cream, keep yourself clean, shave every day and you'll always be keen. (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

paraphrased - it's been a long time... Scene: Cold winter winds, sounds of the outdoors and a Dog sled... Cheech "Stop, What that in path?" Chong "Don't know, to far." Cheech "Look, Loook!" Chong "It look like Dog-S***" Cheech "Hmm, Smell." Chong "What!?" Cheech "SMELL!" Chong "It smell like Dog-S***" Cheech "Hmm, Touch." Chong "What!!?" Cheech "TOUCH!" Chong "It feel like Dog-S***" Cheech "HMMMMM, Taste." Chong "WHAT!!!? Cheech "TASTE!!!" Chong "spitting and sputtering, It taste like Dog-S***" pause... Chong "Hmm, good thing we no step in it. Mush!" Background Scene fades away....

As you make this move into Troop tents; a)consider buying all the same model - you teach how to set one up you've taught how to set up all in the inventory. It's also easier in the dark. b)ensure the Scouts know that they are responsible for damage - don't rip the zipper open, carefully slide the zipper slide to open it and always open it at least halfway to reduce stress on the zipper as one crawls through it. c)consider the extra cost of the expedition tent - it does tend to weigh more but we are using the 4 man Timberline Outfitter and have had eight of those for more than a decade with NO repairs(the one that had needed a zipper repair after some intentional abuse was stolen along with two others out of the trailer) As to cots - they're fine for summer camp. I use a backpacking design based on a six-inch high military cold-weather model but only for summer camp. The rest of the time I'm currently using a Exped SynMat 7 Air Pad(+/-$95) having gotten older and colder (It's lighter than what it replaced too)and graduating up from my 3/4 length Therm-a-rest I used for about 15 years and kept nice enough I was able to sell it for $40(no holes/no patches). The blue insulating pad is all most boys need and at $4-10 depending on where you get it a bargain. Get off of the cots. I'm also doing some work on trying to utilize the Tarp and Tarp-tent type concepts, have my own prototype built and am in the testing phase. If I don't continue with it's development I will probably buy the kit from Ray Jardines website and that will be MY backpacker tent, possibly my all weather tent. The boys will have to sew their own if they want one. For zipper repairs/replacement(if necessary, consider consulting with your local alteration shop and even the shoe repair guy, our shoe guy does excellent work, does it cheap, and occasionally donates the work to the cause.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Pointing finger at self. Guilty. Don't make situations for the Scouts to practice skills enough. But, on the other hand... Do teach EDGE. And think it's a good method. Do believe, even though I sign off before then(due to program requirements) that they don't know it until they see one, do one, teach one. And even then review is necessary. I mean, I can tie a Sheepshank but probably not on the first try, by the second most likely and definitely on the third. A Monkey fist, OTH, is just hard to forget once you learn how. The rest of the Scout knots I get enough practice on and is probably the thing we do best (sad, I know). But we use the knots ALL of the time. First aid, things you hope you aren't using, you have to plan to practice. Will start incorporating games to provide some of the review. Little beats peer pressure to practice so your patrol doesn't get shown up. I expect that it isn't learn, test, review, recognize, and forget. I expect that Any/Every Scout should be able to do anything they've had signed off no matter how many times he's advanced since then.

Yea! Good job! Get 'er done...

Okay, thanks for the feedback! Well, if the SM has been to training(he has)and has an issue with advancing the Scout - why not just ask him why? Maybe he has a valid reason? Maybe he doesn't? Surely the SM knows not advancing the Scout would draw questions. So ask the question. Surely you can support the SM enough to find out HIS "why" in this situation. Rather than just assuming that he is completely wrong. (Even if the book, at this point, says he is.) This is a place where team building can occur versus just "getting mine". Value his input and he should value yours, build a little trust for the future. But again, the manner in which you approach the question might determine his attitude in response. If you request information - shouldn't be a problem. If you are going to go in on the attack, well,..., maybe you should have another leader(an ASM or the CC) ask about it for you. It's hard to to go in to "protect" the interests of our own children without being on the defensive - which tends to play out with us attacking the other persons position. I still think having the Scout research advancement - ask him if he feels he's met the criteria - and then have him converse with the SM is the route to go on this one.

John just from this line of fl_mom_of_2's post... "We are a small troop and relatively new (since Oct of last year).", and my own struggles to get to training and the national averages on "Trained" leaders it seems very likely that the Troop may have untrained leaders. If the leaders are Trained then I still think they need to build a culture of working together than of smacking down anyone who isn't intentionally stepping outside the lines.

I hear you too, Loud and clear. The only way this works is if the individual Troops do the work. Because National will not get involved in the character side and will only look at what we(and the Scouts parents) say the Scout has done. I hold the line in my zone. (Or at least am trying - and do better as I learn more.) The way I see it it all starts early, even in the Crossover or New Join level (Scout), with special attention at the T-2-1 levels that you(I) WILL NOT sign off on unearned work. The Scout needs to find out EARLY that there is a Quality component, "No Billy, that isn't quite a square knot, the name for what you have tied is a Thieves knot. Let's try it again." "No Billy, while you have tied an ankle brace there isn't any support for the ankle, it has to be TIGHT to provide the support, Let's try it again." It's the understanding that there are standards and that the Troop WON'T raise the bar but WILL hold to the standard ALL the way through.