Gunny2862

I like CalicoPenn's approach as long as we throw in something that you can't do online(as in the examples given), although there is something to be said for a short Adult competition(perhaps at Campfire) that that leaves the SM free to attend to any issues his SPL does decide to bring to him. I wouldn't want to be made unavailable by an "all day type go get your ticket punched at all of these different sites" kind of thing. And no I'm probably not smarter than all Tenderfeet(sp?), but I'll outperform a (non-career)Tenderfoot every time on Tenderfoot skills.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I will state that it is my opinion that a parent should never be turned away from going camping with their son, or daughter. Unless, of course, either the Scout or Parent is a danger to themselves or others. If the Troop I am now the Scoutmaster of had acted weird about my accompanying them on the boys first Scouting outing then I would probably not be doing what I am doing now because his mother wouldn't have allowed him to join. However the more the Parents stay away from their child on the camp out the more the Scout will enjoy the camp out. The more the youth will integrate into the Troop and the less weird the other Scouts will think the Scout(and his Parents) is/(are). If you are truly worried then go to training, go with the Troop(so you can be near) and avoid your child like the plague. If he weren't the current SPL I could go all weekend without interacting with mine except to get to the rally point to go out and then to get back home. But conversely, the slowest advancing Scout I currently have doesn't camp without Mom('cause Dad won't) and Mom goes when it's convenient and with good weather. (Scene from Apocalypse now... dum dum de dum dum... Whop whop whop). Not that advancement is everything but he's getting left behind by his peers - which as far as I can tell is an excellent indicator that he will probably not last. Not that advancement doesn't happen at weekly meetings but it's hard to do a 5 mile hike with map and compass at a weekly meeting. Camp cooking doesn't happen at weekly meetings. And while I won't add to requirements I'm not signing off on a walk around the CO's building with a map and a compass, sorry.

Eamonn, hear, hear (sound of thunderous applause) I concur, in the definition of an ideal troop being: The one in which the adults are doing everything they can to continuously move it closer to being a program as described in the BSA literature. And on a really great day - that might include, for a very select few, mean doing nothing but keeping it where it is. Of course some of us are eating bigger elephants than others and some of us have more people actually helping us eat it - rather than going out and trying to grow the silly thing.

I like the issue wool watch cap too. But most often use a Columbia fleece hat that has a roll down ear cover and a strap. It's great for sleep wear too. No head sticking out of the bag and getting cold. As an additional benefit it drives my son crazy when I wear it in public. (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I used Goo Gone in the Corps for years. It's a great product and I've never once had a problem from using it. Of course it helps to know what you are using it on won't dissolve by being covered by the solvent. Always test in a place you can afford to lose if it does eat it.

fgoodwin, I have run across some RA's too,(to which I hold generally similar views) but I'm talking about my experiences around RR's. Which is again, why I think it's weird that the RR's I have seen are at non-AG churches. Although the one Foursquare I mentioned is allied with but not necessarily a member of the AG church as a whole. I DO appreciate the attempt at clearing up a possible misunderstanding however, Thank you. (No sarcasm is to be read or conferred by this, or the preceding, statement.) (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

That's weird to me about it being an AG program. RR was always in Southern Baptist,Foursquare and other often non-denominational churches when I ran into them...

In my experience at churches that ran Royal Ranger (RR) programs(I moved a lot while I was on active duty): VERY few promote camping - the occasional "lock-in" where they stayed overnight at the church and had games - but "by my experience" maybe 1 in 20 would have regular camping. It's cheaper - most of the time fundraising was seen to detract from the zero sum game the Church operated between it's operating budget and church members. And they didn't want the outdoors part to impact the overall budget. The emphasis was on promoting (not necessarily my definition) "Christian values" by putting the focus on Bible memorization, skill in answering "Bible Bowl" quiz questions (a local, regional and national competition) and deferring to Adult Authority w/o question. In the view of most adults in and around these systems BSA didn't/wouldn't allow them (and might prevent them from being able)to teach the "Christian values" they wanted to impart to their youth. But the actual character development was not a perceptibly planned progression but was supposed to occur by exposure to the Biblical text and the RR Leadership, IMHO. Little to no leadership opportunity other than that that would be in regular course recognized for those who were exemplar members who were key members of the Bible Bowl team or who could recite entire Books of the Bible from memory(Just like how natural leaders rise on Sports teams - no real leadership development). NOW that I've been negative: The very few Ranger Programs that did camp regularly tended to be a whole lot closer to BSA Troops and usually had a former Boy Scout in the Adult Leadership who was cognitively injecting BSA elements into the RR program. And in some cases could whip up on quite a few BSA Troops in T-2-1 skill competitions. IMHO due to the tighter discipline, nearly military, that the RR programs I've seen utilized as a matter of course. All of the above is my observation based on my experience, Your mileage may vary.

John you really need to get that fridge looked at. I am VERY interested in this topic. As has been previously discussed I am working with a Troop that gets VERY weird about not pulling the trailer - much more car camping and freaks out about backpacking. We are backpacking this month - yes - November in Missouri and I am already getting a hard time about "How are we going to feed the boys?", "How will you keep things fresh?", "How will you cook with those little tiny stoves?", "Don't let my baby near one of those explosions waiting to happen!" Amazingly no one is asking about what we will do if an ice storm rolls in - and yes, I have a plan. Most of my experience is with "no-cook" or "rehydrate and eat" aka "boil and go" meals, and Gorp for on the trail snacking. I cognitively know that eggs are going to be okay for 3-4 days but haven't yet broken out and brought them for a weekend. I know about rehydrating powdered milk to make ingredients for "Hamburger Helper" type meals, but haven't done it yet. I have dehydrated foods before but haven't in a long time and don't own a dehydrator now and am loathe to use the home oven to do it. Yes, a module on back country cooking would be great for a supplementary course. But let's also address all of the current cooking modalities, fire, liquid fuel stoves (self contained and separate fuel bottle), and the gas canister stoves(MSR Pocket Rocket) and try to stay current with the new items coming out, i.e. Jetboil, etc., and not just focus on the single method the presenter prefers. Recipes anyone?

I have a 15 year old Columbia Bugaboo jacket I wear to meetings and everywhere else when it is sufficiently cold - it is a two part system and I wear the fleece "a lot" - to include right now. For hiking I substitute a much thinner shell with roll away hood I had custom made in Korea, which purports to be Gore-tex and works very well whether it is or not. It gets paired with the fleece when it's going to be really cold. Other wise I use the "Korea" shell in combination with other lighter layering options. And when hiking it's also paired with unofficial unapproved head gear 'cause I don't know of any approved head gear that will do the job when it's cold outside - why no approved (knit)watch cap?(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Well, that makes sense I guess. But I can't even consider not voting at all - I worked too hard too long to safeguard peoples rights to vote(although I guess that would include the right not to). If I were that disgruntled I'd waste a vote on a third party candidate to send a message - and encourage any and all who felt like me to do the same rather than not vote at all.

Sure but if your parsing scenario is true then what happened to all of the prior voters who didn't go to the polls(for those numbers to work as you are parsing them someone had to not show up) - was there an incredible amount of "unseen" apathy? In this state at least there was so much polarization I don't know or know of any one who could vote who didn't(above the age of thirty).

ScoutMomSD, Either have the courage of your convictions, reword to say SOME non-parent/post-parent Scouters are creepy, or apologize. Backpedaling like that is dishonest to yourself and even more insulting to those volunteers that have been tarnished by your wide brush. No one will fault you for being concerned about your children - It's how I wound up getting involved - I was going anyway to allay the overcautious fears of HWMBO.

ScoutMomSD, Either have the courage of your convictions, reword to say SOME non-parent/post-parent Scouters are creepy, or apologize. Backpedaling like that is dishonest to yourself and even more insulting to those volunteers that have been tarnished by your wide brush. No one will fault you for being concerned about your children - It's how I wound up getting involved - I was going anyway to allay the overcautious fears of HWMBO.

***Rumor alert*** An individual informed me earlier this week of a local townsperson who had tired of having the campaign signs in his yard defaced, destroyed or stolen who wired four car batteries together (48 volts - current dependent on many factors) and wired them to his yard signs. Supposedly at least one person ATTEMPTED to continue defacing this persons signs. And was questioned at the hospital. ***Rumor alert ends***

This set of volunteers had done an excellent job of breaking down the entrance line. They sorted by "First Letter of Last Name" almost immediately(Thus creating almost no "general" line) and sent each subset to different areas of the building. The line for my grouping was about 25 deep when I stepped in line in that area. Best logistical set up for a vote I've seen yet. (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Ditto MikeF, Webelos Woods(WW) is supposed to be about the fun parts of Scouting and introducing the Webelos to the Scouts, especially if they are camping with a Troop they might/will join. If the inspection process is producing a lot of stress, realize the inspection will happen but no one is going to take your child, job or house for not doing well or winning it. And if the WW sponsors are making it that big a deal where you are stressed out over it then maybe the Cubmaster needs to have a cup of coffee with the event sponsor. The inspection is supposed to be a way to ensure basic cleanliness in a camp setting and to provide a means of friendly competition among Troops/Patrols - not to stress out Pack Parents. Our Troop usually doesn't expect anything from the Pack we sponsor for the event except that they show up. On some years when we have the workforce and timeline availability we even set up their tents before they show up. We also put on our own Troop campfire program in addition to any program put on by the WW event. And have Scout prepared meals where we (as much as possible) include the Webelos in the preparation for the meal. But around here the Council doesn't do Campsite inspections for WW. The Troop does among Patrols but the WW organizers don't.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

Primary civic duty of the day complete... moving on to the next. Wish we had early voting but I did manage to get in and out in 14 minutes - took longer to drive there than to vote.

I've been accused of being weird by many... not "creepy" yet... creaky sometimes - especially the morning after the end of a backpacking trip.

Look the kid is 14, I've got parents of kids who aren't old enough to become Cub Scouts yet who are asking if I'm still going to be around to be the Scoutmaster for their son. What do I have to do to satisfy ScoutMomSD if I decided to stay on after the next four years, talk the wife into another child? With HWMBO approaching a certain age, she's not going to buy into it. Especially after the high number of miscarriages we experienced, when younger, to get the one we got. If we got to that point(my son not being in Scouting as a youth), I would have been working with youth(in Scouting) for more than five years. I've been working with youth in other contexts for more than fifteen years already. Is a new leader with no track record safer in that context? You want Creepy, look at the folks who aren't just normally concerned but want to whisper pedophile behind the back of every man in sight.

My lay reading of the statute also keys in on facility or property. It would appear that one could go camping with the Troop and cojoin with other Troops but that this statute would interfere with a facility or property that advertised to a Troop or Troops to do provide the physical and logistical services of a non-primitive camping experience. I can't see this being applied to what diogenes is proposing but can see it being directly applied to a regular council type camp. IMHO, YMMV. Not to be taken as legal advice.

Current pocket carry blade is Carbon Steel alloy with a Titanium nitride coating. The edge will rust (except that I use it enough that I sharpen it all the time anyway)and so will the blade (pit)wherever the coating gets nicked away. I think it is the best of both worlds. If I lived near the ocean, or somewhere more humid than here, I would probably transition to SS only for daily pocket carry. For military work I liked what ever I could find that I could use and abuse in ways that would tear up any "normal" knife - In this context the carbon steel K-Bar is still the king(IMHO), my stainless K-bar LMF was nice but just doesn't measure up - it was prettier, but I was afraid to do things with it that I routinely did with the carbon version. Which means the SS version usually got left behind.

Moving the young man into a Venturing crew may be a good idea. Settling him in on the Committee might have been a good idea too - If a position is open to him, which Bob White indicates is not the case. BobWhite - can the individual in question be a Full ASM or only a JASM within a Troop structure? It doesn't seem to me that ANYONE with a known past history of physical over-reaction to pranks, flying snowballs - "His problems have consisted of disproportionate responses. For example, a boy threw a snowball at him, and he grabbed the boy by the neck and threw the boy to the ground. Several instances similar to that. I'm not aware of him provoking, only reacting disproportionately. He also has a tendency to make threatening statements, which I think is his way of joking around with people - however others don't take it that way." - is a good candidate to fill an ASM or a JASM position. I also want to highlight Several instances similar to that. I understand and applaud the idea of accommodating him for his disability, but unless he is in another adult leaders pocket like one might do with say a blind adult - when in a new locale guiding him to the point where he would perform his duties that fall within his abilities - the difference is that there is NO situation where the other adult wouldn't have to be FULLY aware of THIS prospective leader. So unless a current leader other than his parent will take him on as a full time project/responsibility, it doesn't seem like a good idea to me. I am also of the opinion that gaining(and keeping) the Scouts trust is an ongoing issue. Is putting someone in an Adult role(even as a JASM - considering the requirements for that role) who has assaulted a Scout before a positive step in that direction? And then what have you said about keeping the boys needs first, if he does over-react again. This appears to be a situation where he needs to go to Venturing or at least stay out of the Troops day to day Direct Contact positions. It may be that he could still function unofficially in the background - helping another adult committee member(i.e. sitting on BOR's, "Adult time" Quartermaster work, advancement paperwork, etc.) but I don't think I would prefer to have an individiual with the traits you have given in a Direct Contact role with the Scouts. All of the above is JMHO. Take it for what it cost you.

Nike, well said.

Don't forget "campy-ness" - if you can't have fun because you are too busy following the "programmed activity plan" or if there isn't fun "in" the "programmed activity plan" then where's the camp part of camp other than that you get to sleep in tents? Contraption Boat races(after Commissioner safety check and with all applicable G2SS provisions) Dunking booths with various combination's of Scoutmaster and/or Staff members. Scout skill competitions for Camp provided prizes (1st served in the dining hall, Free drink at the concession stand, etc.) Time to actually go fishing with a buddy in the lake, etc., not just to meet a requirement. Troop an/or Patrol campfire AND the opportunity to participate (not just attend) in the Camp Campfire.