Gunny2862

After flipping the circuit breaker to turn off that light, if there is a cover on it, then remove the cover and aim a fan into the opening to blow air up into the surrounding area and dry out the can and any area the air can get blown into around it. The less time the can and the wiring are exposed to the water the better. Also if there is overhead access between the floors open that and start a fan or dehumidifier in that area also. Also either opening the house, in a low humidity area and running a fan to ventilate the house or alternately, closing it and running a dehumidifier to assist the drywall in drying out before it sags (hopefully) may help. Either of these may help to dry it before any mold can start also. Man, doesn't it seem like this stuff always happens when the Bubba is out of the house? It always got the wife when I was out of town.

gcan, I thought I did...

Sorry Bob, imprecise terminology again. Follow up, so if we go off without a tour permit will we be covered on the travel portion?

Thanks for the answer Scoutnut! That clarifies something for me - that when the parents drive for Cub Scouts apparently the transportation phase isn't under the tour permit because you travel as family groups. In Boy Scouts(as I'm familiar with it) we almost always travel together as patrols/whoever will fit in a car, rather than in family groups - and so, want to engage the coverage.

If you are frustrated enough to leave then what's the harm in doing an exit interview with the person you feel is the problem, or the Scoutmaster or CC or even the COR? It might give people who can influence the problem a chance to intervene or to realize that what isn't going on is NOT the occasional cycling of parents/youth which also occurs from time to time and may be what some of the Leaders may think is happening?

Annie, I'd try to answer your question but couldn't do it for certain because I'm on the Boy Scout side. I believe you are correct but don't know. Any Cub Scouters willing to answer?

Sctdad and others, I think you have keyed in in my central issue. That the trip isn't complete, at least in my view of the Boy Scout world, until everyone on my tour permit has either returned to their home(or at least the home town AND the custody of their parents)(and I know it) or to the Scout room (and I know it) and departed from there. And then I can consider that the trip is complete, I no longer will need to worry about an accident/injury report for anyone on my Tour Permit. I understand that the Cub Scout world works differently in some places especially that they may be in the custody of their parents during the outbound and return trip. Clearly some parents may decide to stop at a restaurant or some other place on the way home and this impacts their return. It has nothing to do with trusting the parents - in Cub Scouts what are you going to do, tell them they can't drive their child? What I don't get is how you then know when a Cub Scout leader who is the Tour Leader on a Tour Permit know when he can relax knowing the tip is complete? And until they have returned home or been to the meeting place isn't the insurance still in effect? Or did it end when the Cub Scout left the event in the custody of their parents going wherever else they may go? Sorry, but the time I put in in the military does color my view of my responsibilities in certain ways, to include that the trip isn't complete until it's complete.

John, I fully agree, as usual. In my contextual view, I kind of read Bob and scoutldr and myself as saying the same thing.

Sorry, I really can read, most of the time anyway. True the pack situation is different. But, then, do the parents expect the Pack to help them if they have a problem on the road or can't find their way to the event site? If there's no coordination outbound or returning how do you know everyone is back? Pleading ignorance, never did the Cub side, Boy didn't want to.

At the top of the page under "Post reply" is a "search" link. Enter "OldGreyEagle" for poster with exact match, Enter "Whos" as keyword, it won't take "Who's". Set date range back at least a year, I usually start with 10 years and narrow down from there. I happened to have already saved it in the format I sent it to you.

Not ranting... Yes, some parents are overly sensitive to having any fault or failure of their child called to attention. The below won't fix the situation but is how we try to handle it. First we don't spend a lot of time on this issue as a rule but have some informal guidelines in place for when it does happen. In our Troops case it is understood and talked about to new parents especially those who camp even once with the Troop that: 1) It is up to the Pl's and SPL to enforce Troop expected behavior to include the performance/duties to satisfactory standards of chores/duties. 2)That when that falls short or if there is an immediate hazard which the aforementioned parties aren't acting on that the parent/adult/Uniformed Scouter has the prerogative to fix that portion of the activity. 3) That it is expected that if a Scout isn't heeding the PL or SPL that the matter will NOT be referred to that Scouts parents by another adult or the appropriate youth leader and that any other adult of the Troop will talk to the Scout about it. By the time I hear about MY son misbehaving in this way, I either saw it and waited for that other adult to bring me in as his parent, or didn't see it and am in the same boat as any parent that I am calling about what their son did. On a good/(most) weekend/(s), I wind up with a very minimal exposure to my own son except that he insists on riding to and from with me... probably because I listen to his music. (This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

We do NOT do convoy operations or caravan. We may or may not attempt to keep each other within sight, depending on the individual drivers familiarity with the area we are transiting. We do give out strip maps to the outings destination(so we know the route and where to look for people who don't show up at one end or another) and use cell phones (where possible) for communications while in route, non-driver speaking only. As to closing out a trip, "Occasionally" one family may have another event that requires their children to be present and they depart and do not rendezvous at the end. In those occasions I ask that they call us when they hit the city limits, that they have only their Scout and we count them as having returned. We aren't yet having the issue of people bailing without having returned to the point of origin but have "occasionally" had people leave immediately after they got to the start before the work was done, which became topics for SM conferences.

PM sent.

I understand wanting to fly the flag at every possible opportunity. If the SPL is going to go to an SPL meeting, come back with info/directions from the Event Director then unless the scoop violates G2SS or other Scouting Guidleines then why aren't you listening to the directions he gives when he comes back? What was the point of his going to the meeting in the first place? But, if the Scoutmaster had gone to a Scoutmasters meeting with the Event Director, would the Troop still have gone to raise the flag after being told that that activity had been canceled/postponed until the storm passed? If they would then: 1) It's good that you have the courage of your convictions. 2) It's bad that you don't follow the directions given by the Event Director. They sometimes have reasons for certain directions they give that may not be apparent and that they don't lengthen the meeting by explaining the reasons behind every individual proclamation. 3) As has been noted above there are many bad outcomes possible for trying to raise a flag in inclement weather. Frankly, we certainly wouldn't put one up and unless we were departing we wouldn't pull down a flag that was already flying under the conditions described unless it was our flag, we were departing the area, the Event Director told us he wouldn't pull it before he left and send it to us or the Council office, and in that case an adult of the Troop would pull it, and quickly would it come down.

acco40 mentions above the possibility that the Eagle should give a gift to the Scoutmaster. I don't know that a tangible gift needs to be exchanged in either direction from the Scoutmaster or from the new Eagle. They have already given each other hours and hours of time, of discussion, of trust, of respect, of understanding and communication in good times and of bad. In my view, their gifts have already been exchanged. The Troop (as a whole) might want to acknowledge either/both of the two parties work with a tangible gift on this accomplishment, however. (But it certainly isn't necessary or required.)

And wasn't taking on the insurance against bad loans over and above bad or loose choices made by the primary banks the job and, indeed, business activity of AIG? Again, Insurers who failed to retain enough assets to pay possible losses. >

OldGrayOwl, scoutldr and Bob White have nailed it. The discussion about how he would do it will(most likely) also reveal that he wouldn't really prefer to be told how or what to do by the adults. And that he really would prefer to either be in charge or not to have to do anything. And possibly, as occasionally happens, that if he were in charge that he wouldn't set chores for himself since he's in charge. The discussion, however it goes, will open the door for him to see why the adults aren't running the show. If he can't/won't buy in after another month or so of discussion on the topic then maybe the remedy of his finding another activity is the one to pursue. As to Scoutmasters running interference for their sons. begin rant... Hey people we are parents also. True, some of us do go to far, but some of us have harder relationships with our sons because we refuse to run that interference especially if it isn't something we would do for any other Scout. In some cases it is a hard line because we are having to balance what would we do as a parent and what would we do as a Scout Leader and occasionally we wind up with conflicting interests in that place. So far, I have always come down on the Scouting side of the equation and thus far the boy has understood that I am also in a POR and have to hold the line on rules so that others can't run roughshod over the rules. A little peaceful discussion with the Scoutmaster who isn't meeting your expectations in some area(not going in prepared for a battle and especially not the knee jerk "hey lets get rid of him" mindset)(aside, the comment above really got my goat if you can't tell) may yield a lot better dividends than you think. Especially if you start and finish by recognizing the time and effort he spends in areas where he IS meeting the Troops needs. Boy, I'll tell you my life would be a whole lot easier if the parents came after me and wanted me to step down. I'd still register as an ASM and go on every regular outing(if they allowed me to stay registered) but no more going to every Training, roundtable, fundraising meeting and event, doing training for other Scout leaders, OA events, PLC meetings AND Troop Meetings and doing the work of half of a Committee, oh and I have two patrols without an ASM but hey it's only a little more work. I am currently seeing one and occasionally two weekends a month at the house. Which wind up being honeydo catch up weekends... no wonder SM's burn out. Oh, and while I'm on a rant... How about parents stepping up and actually filling all of the spots on the Committee or becoming an active ASM? Do you ever stop and think who winds up doing those jobs when you choose not to give a little bit of your time. I'll give you a clue it usually isn't the CC. There may be some great CC's out there who let the SM do his job and only his job but I haven't seen it yet in any of the Troops I have run into or talked to the other local SM's. And while you may think it is only a little bit no big deal well when you start adding that fourth or fifth hat it is all of a sudden a really big deal. Large breath... end rant.(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

As to the actions of the youth, has this pattern played out at the lower ranks also or is it new behavior? If it's not new then how about explaining your new view of the situation at the BOR and explaining that what has been "good enough" in the past will no longer get it done. Maybe even giving the with greater rank comes greater expectations speech while acknowledging the commmittees lack of holding the standards in the past. If it is new behavior then a little conversation about it at the BOR should help you decide which direction to go with the Scout.

The CC needs to have a cup with the SM in question and see if the CC comes away with the impression that the SM is intentionally doing what he is being accused of or if he didn't realize how others were perceiving what may be his innocent but possibly wrong actions. Followup with the COR and IH Might then be appropriate. In my case, As SM I don't do the final sign off for ANYTHING regarding my own son with the exception of the SM Conference. I can and do pre-check his skills if asked and then he finds an ASM or the CC for the sign off. His Eagle application( I hope), I think but haven't checked, will require my signature but we will have the CC countersign my signature there if our procedures run true to form.

Henry Shires also does a tarptent and sells a kit. His design includes a mosquito netting area. As soon as I can afford some of the proper material I will be making one. I've already done a mock-up with $1 a yard nylon and liked it very much with the exception that any and all moisture both fell thru and condensed on it - but it was a $1 a yard. My Scouts love the alcohol stove and the ability to supplement meals with ramen when ever they want assuming of course an adults watches them get the stoves lit. We have both homemade and purchased alcohol stoves and the purchased ones are more reliable but some of the homemade ones are more efficient in their use of fuel. I am at some point going to try the blanket kit sold by ray jardine.

No, I don't know where you can get a pre-made set of cards but with a little math and imagination you can do a set for yourself. The most basic of these is the triangle, start on a heading of xxx degrees take 20 paces( or other distance you deem appropriate - the shorter distances for Scouts just learning about compasses - 1/4 mile would not be ridiculous for your pre-Philmont or other HA training period), add or subtract 120 degrees from the original heading(whether you add or subtract you must do the same operation for each of the following steps) take 20 paces, add or subtract 120 degrees and take 20 paces. You should wind up where you started. For additional cards, just make additional geometric shapes or start with one shape and end with another that returns to the origination point (you can vary the pace count from segment to segment if necessary to achieve the correct length of the sides to return to the originating point). You can also make a set of cards by just laying out a course for the location you will be at, this provides the opportunity to start at one position and end at another - just like real life, and avoids the "I started here so if I slide over to the same place it'll look like I know what I'm doing" effect of returning to the start point all of the time. We did our mile plus orienteering course this weekend at a location we were allowed to camp at by a local family. I went out and laid out the course the first hour (hour and a half?,with course check) of the day Saturday and then ran the boys thru after a little refresher training - including a round of the triangle course described above. They did really well...(This message has been edited by Gunny2862)

I would think this would fall on the Committee Chair to discuss the finer points of adult behavior among the adults serving the Troop. Leave the Scoutmaster free to concentrate on the Scouts.

waiting to hear from one hour... YiS

An understanding that to most people the Scoutmaster is the face of Scouting but without the active support of the committee led by a good Committee Chair, that Scoutmaster is also a seriously overburdened Scoutmaster.

It's true, that most parents and many Scouters do not understand the relationship that is supposed to exist from the IH down to the SM. Many who are long time Scouters do not realize that even new volunteers may not understand the structure of unit Scouting. Most people(not heavily involved) see the Scoutmaster as THE central authority in a unit and think the CC is some kind of helper who coordinates the activities of the other helpers on the Committee. I had a talk about this with a Scout parent this week who compared it to how religion is often seen as irrelevant partly because of insider/outsider vocabulary issues. The insiders insist on using "doctrinally correct" terms and the outsiders don't have the same vocabulary in "daily" life. We agreed that often this occurs in Scouting and that it really is incumbent on the insiders to attempt to lead these discussions if they really want to develop the understanding of the outsiders. Now it would be great if all parents took the time to find out the information about scouting but, don't most of us find it hard just to get the Committee and Direct Contact volunteers trained? It seems now even to me that this is very basic information about how a troop is supposed to function but to newcomers and casual associates it is nowhere near as clear.