fred8033

IF the situation is as you said, quietly look at other troops now. Explain the situation as you just did. And if you can find a troop within a reasonable driving distance (hour ??), transfer troops and do it NOW. https://beascout.scouting.org

Lisabob wrote: ... "Dad was also surprised to learn that Eagles have their own COH now, he figured it would be part of the regular troop COH because that's how he remembers it being in his day - not some big hoopla almost like a graduation party. I know it's the scout's choice, but ... I recently attended a troop COH that finished with recognizing the new eagle scout. His mom and dad got their pins. His mentor got theirs. He took a special pledge. IMHO, it made the normal troop COH a very special event. I wish more more Eagle scouts choose to be recognized during a normal troop COH.

bnelon44 - Fully agree with you. I'm just getting really tired of the better-than-thou long-winded badgering wanton ignorance and sloppy logic. BSA isn't perfect, but it's pretty darn good. I just feel pain for the scouts that get stuck in such misdirected unit.

This thread assumes the conclusion that BSA is inconsistent or going down the wrong path. Guess what! There are people that disagree with that statement. I'm getting a little snippy with this type of discussion. And I fear it might be an escalating type of conversation. The type where one side has been holding it's breath slightly more politely putting up with alot of stuff. And now needs to vent. If you can't find a consistent path down BSA's program, it's because that's your view. Your stuck in attitudes that don't reflect BSA 2012. You can read any document and find ways

Crew21_Adv wrote: "That each unit select co-facilitators and present that month. Most all of our units agreed to host (or co-host) a monthly theme. Our thought was, if they feel that they are active participants in Roundtable, this would add to their own personal value, up the game a little bit. Having each attending Scouting unit, be responsible for an education/program segment thru the year, has increased our attendance even greater. " What an absolutely great idea! Sort of moves the roundtable commisioner similar to unit commisioner. Commisioners are there for advice, but unit leade

Crew21_Adv wrote: "That each unit select co-facilitators and present that month. Most all of our units agreed to host (or co-host) a monthly theme. Our thought was, if they feel that they are active participants in Roundtable, this would add to their own personal value, up the game a little bit. Having each attending Scouting unit, be responsible for an education/program segment thru the year, has increased our attendance even greater. " What an absolutely great idea! Sort of moves the roundtable commisioner similar to unit commisioner. Commisioners are there for advice, but unit leade

Beavah - What is the document your quoting in the 7/4/2012: 9:39:17 PM post? It's out of date and sometimes contradicts the current BSA pubs. But I'll still read it if I can find it. I'm not saying the ideas are bad. I'm just saying they are superseded by the current program. But at least now I know where your getting this one-and-done protest kick. It's an outdated document that's currently out of favor. Or at least that part of the document did not continue on as part of current expectations.

Justifying doing what you want ... That's what this whole discussion is about. And I must admit what scares me the most is when I read "It is ultimately the spirit of the regulations that counts, not the letter.". NO!!!! NO!!!! NO!!!! That reasoning justifies anything. The intent/spirit can guide us to interpret and clarify requirements, but scouts are answerable to the letter of the requirements. Clarify with the spirit of the requirement all you want, fine. But the scout is answerable to the written requirement. That earlier justification is used to do what you want. BSA

IMHO, you will not see many new scouts directly from parades. BUT BUT BUT ... IMHO ... they are extremely important to visibility and perception of scouting in the communitty. People who attend parades are exactly the population you'd see putting their kids in scouts. I wish every unit would own a parade and then get as many scouts from all the local units to appear in the parade. It's like that old Fred McMurray image of scouting. I think people crave for their sons to be in something resembling the innocence of the past.

IMHO, pack program quality is fully a reflection (i.e. symptom) of the volunteers. Great volunteers can quickly create a great pack program. Same as bad or no volunteers can quickly crash a good program. That's the problem with cub scouts. So when you talk about "growing and evolving" the pack program, the only thing you can really do is grow and develop the volunteer base. From there, everything takes care of itself.

Trouble with "splitting off a competing unit" is that people forget you will see the old troop and scouters for years to come. They are in your community, scouting district, local schools, etc. Assuming you go to district camporees and monthly round tables, you'll see them there too.

BSA leaves many of these specifics to troop discretion. Generally though.... If appointed, the person who appoints you can can remove you. No real reason needed. Who appointed you? To have a right to the PL position you need to be elected by the scouts and for a specific time duration. Then to be removed, you really need to be removed for a significant reason such as not being there or bad behavior. But if your elected, present and making an effort, I can't see any troop removing you. I'm just not used to appointed patrol leaders. (This message has been edited by f

Second guessing this again. I didn't want to suggest yeh or neh. But during our last COH, we were burnt by a council staffer promoting the 2013 Jamboree. He asked for five minutes and took 20+. He was by far the longest piece of the COH by a factor of four. It delayed the proceedings. And it was not a fun presentation. People listened out of politeness, but it was not why we were there. We were not happy with him. And, I think promoting Jamboree was one of his Woodbadge tickets. We blew it by not reinforcing the time limit and not pulling him out when his time was up. Sa

Best has already been posted by AK-Eagle. Years ago the first time I took Wilderness first aid training I was shocked at how many people were required to evacuate an injured person. I wish I could quote the Red Cross number to carry a victim a few miles out. It was huge. Plus it's difficult. Stretchers take six people to carry. That's often wider than the hiking path and makes it dangerous both for the victim and the rescuers. Unless your a fireman, a marine or an Olympian, anything over a very short distance needs a stretcher. 500 yards (over a quarter mile) is a long

I'll let someone else decide on together or separate. The only comment I'll have is that many Woodbadge ceremonies take way way too long and way way too boring. IMHO, one to three minutes of ceremony are fine for woodbadge beading. THE REST IS WOODBADGE PROMOTION. The last beading I saw took between 15 to 20 minutes... Really. And given that I've sat thru at least 10+ beadings... And that I've completed woodbadge... And that most every scouter I know gets Woodbadge.... I must confess that if I know one is one the agenda at roundtable or elsewhere, I might find a convenient reason to

I'm really confused on this whole thing. And generally, I believe Obamacare just means many more changes will need to be legislated. -------------------- I don't mind calling it Obamacare. That's not necessarily negative. He did push for it. The abbreviation ACA is entirely forgettable. If Obamacare succeeds, it will be a crowning compliment. Heck, I've already seen posters reading "Obamacares". -------------------- More audits??? .... 26 year old children on parents helath insurance .... I'm already audited yearly to see if my spouse is eligible under another emp

Beavah et al. - I'm continually amazed at the contempt you show for BSA and BSA advancement. Ya stand up and want to be a BSA leader but continually show contempt for the program and those who administer the program. ... "just isn't any vision anymore" ... "just aren't all that savvy themselves" ... "Add that to some poor staff input and editing for other reasons" ... "fundamentally poor policy making and materials development" ... "It's an example of national folks bein' out of touch with da units" ... and more and more and more. The issue is not that the vision or generalities or sp

Beavah ... Your example does reflect different troop styles though it's strongly biased toward troop two. I'm sure most scouters can re-write this instead to bias favor toward troop one. And yes, I do strongly prefer the style of troop one. Mainly because I see patrols as a group of scouts that enjoy each others company and that want to get out and do things. But, you raise a large set of topics. - Following the rules - Patrols - New scout patrols or mixed age patrols - Mentoring - by troop guide or patrol leader - Awards - How to get them from the scout

Eagledad wrote some great comments. - Change "scouting for food" from a two day drop and run event to a "knock on the door, meet and greet" event. Great for marketing and great for our scouts to learn to present themselves. - District derbies - Yeah, our district derby is held at a church. Not visible at all to the community. Not everyone has one, but it would be great to do them at "public" venus such as malls. - How about a few more shared activities? Pack leaders get burnt out and bad packs just don't have enough good events. - I must admit the "five and a half

Favorite parts of my 1st grizzly bear training - #1 Bears will run away from noise. Consider wearing bear bells. - #2 Watch for droppings. You're around grizzly bears if you see droppings with bear bells in them.

bnelson44: - Yeah, it's interesting. I haven't heard you suggest any changes to advancement either or represent anything that lowers quality. I believe everyone on this discussion believes in holding scouts to high expectations, learn skills, grow as a person and develop a strong moral character. What I've heard though is scouters justifying practices that don't match ALL the specifics in the BSA publications (rules and reg, GTA, advancement team publications, etc). To be blunt and probably overstating it, going rogue. Justifying breaking BSA intent by dissing the advancement progra

Twocubdad - Agreed. We would probably not be a good match for each other's troop. And just to clarify, we have had multiple eagle scouts recently. But they've all been 17 years old and pretty much continually active since they joined in 2005. We might have another one next year too. He'll be our youngest at 16, but he's an extremely busy and driven kid. I must admit I'm okay if a scout gets all he can out of scouts when he's 14 or 15 and moves on. I've yet to see it, but all the more power to the scout. It's about growth. If he needs to move to get new experiences, fine. That's

Beavah - Twist as you want and wrongly attribute low expectations. It's the screams of justifying a bad position. I guess every one wants to claim to be in the good guy group. But repeated comments from this discussion quickly show who's trying to work within the system and who's trying to constantly point out problems to justify going rogue. Creative compliance - Trying to understand the rules (general and specific) and working within them to then deliver a high quality program. - Working within the program to help the scouts develop skills and confidence. Creativ

twocubdad - I don't see any requirement for FCFY. It's an initiative, but I don't remember reading in GTA or any other guiding document that FCFY is any type of "requirement". Heck the term itself does not lend to a requirement statement. It's just a term around which to discuss and evaluate unit quality. ... Glad that we can agree on creative compliance versus creative avoidance. But who's in which camp? It you need to say one requirement trumps another, I'd call that avoidance because your saying to meet one requirement you need to throw out another. Your saying BSA is not

Beavah - Dude ... Ummm ... Thanks for the clarification on "novice". Not sure if I feel less offended by your clarifying "notice" with a document that uses the terms unconscious and incompetent. Not sure if I'd sign off for you on any requirement to be courteous. Or even knowledgeable on what I know and don't know. This is less about who is competent and more about compliance versus avoidance. But I'm willing to accept that non-compliance is defacto incompetence. Anyway, um, good try, um, thanks. .... Beavah wrote: - "But da real issue here is that the core rules and pr