fred8033

We've been submitting online advancements for a few years now. Works great! Records are accurate and not lost. Only need a printed report for shopping at the scout store. And I believe we can even feed the online report directly to the store to have the piece parts pulled and ready to purchase. Moving paperwork is a major cost, a major delay, a major headache and a major failure/error point. I think the only place where you need a physical signature is inside the unit. And then, just sign the scout handbook. I hope as much paperwork as possible moves online. I'd love to redu

Taserdoc quoted: "Emotional abuse occurs when a young person is continually berated and denigrated, severely jeopardizing his self esteem" SM handbook PG. 136." I'm one who does consider it emotional abuse. I've seen it. I hate it. The trouble is that unless its really really bad there's not much one can do about it. Also, I can imagine some parents not minding their sons getting a verbal whipping. They'd call our attitude coddling the scouts. BSA just can't do much. They don't see these leaders day after day. And, they've probably never heard the yelling or derogatory comm

Beavah ... great article. Love The Atlantic. It's one of a few magazines I read. Right up there with Foreign Affairs and The Economist. Detailed, educational, and fairly balanced articles.

Ya know, I flip back on forth on what's "routine maintenance." Our local DAC says an aggressive interpretation of "routine maintenace" would eliminate most Eagle projects. Giving leadership - To decide what is or is not "routine maintenance", I'd try to decide from how the project can be used to demonstrate leadership. If it's routine maintenance, it's probably effectively scheduled, such as it gets painted every two to five years. It's probably a well known process with well known steps. It's been done enough times that volunteers can almost do it "automatically". There's probab

Ya know... I'd put this on a higher priority level. Call him on it. Ask him to explain himself. Ask him not to text you. Depending on the level/type of threats, (passive/aggressive versus physical versus slanderous versus intimidation versus ...), I'd take action. I think it's similar to teaching our scouts to confront a bully. I'd also #1 document it and #2 coordinate with the parents. If the parents are not helpful, you won't get far. If he's not willing to change, suggest to the scout to take a break from scouting until his behavior is compatible with the boundaries of scouti

Taserdoc - Vague hypothetical questions get vague answers. Units leaders see a lot over the years. All scouts push limits. All. Some scouts get attitude and might push limits in a bad way such as blaming others for their failures or accusing scout leaders. It does happen. That's one reason for two deep leadership. So that one leader can stand up and defend another leader. So don't get offended when we ask about someone stirring the put. To be honest, some of the worst stir'ers are parents of scouts who think their scout was slighted. Best way to get a good answer is t

Hypothetically... - Were laws broken? - Was it hazing or emotional abuse or some other type of abuse? - Was it a safety violation? - Did the SMs set-up the situation or responding to a situation created by others? To be honest, specifics are needed.

The hypothetical question asks for a conclusion based only on outside actions without any specifics to analyze. - This could be a case of someone stirring the pot. - This could be a case of society changing but old time scouters not changing. - This could be a really significant or just noise or people with hurt feelings. In any event, this forum can't help without more details. Ask your own conscious. Do you believe it merits further action? If so, as a citizen, as a scouter and as probably a parent, you should pursue it with the appropriate authorities. The problem

Just to give a voice of dissent. We form new scout patrols from the incoming scouts. Once they gain a few months of experience, we let them choose. Radical yes, but it works. If the scouts want to stay together, fine. If they don't, fine. We just want scouts to believe in their patrol and not disappear to find their friends all the time. My oldest son came into the troop with most of his cub scout den and received a few more scouts to become a patrol. They stayed together for seven years. Thru scouting, they became best of friends. Those guys served as SPL, TG, QM and just abou

Engineer61 wrote: "I don't think it's "designed into the process" at all ... you can't have a BoR at the drop of a hat...if you don't have the people there to do it." Cool. I'm okay with it occurring naturally. "Sorry Timmy, we don't have three committee members free right now to do the BOR. How does next week work for you?" I'm even okay if troops hold BORs at a designated time/date (at least once a month and with a bit of sympathy/flexibility for the scout). Engineer61 wrote: "But I'll challenge the notion ... name those "multitude of poor lessons"." The following are

Engineer61 wrote: "I, in fact think it imperative this not be the case... it's a bad lesson to teach that the world revolves around an individual. Most of our politicians have that view." Yeah, that's where we differ. IMHO, object lessons, such as people not being available to do a BOR, should be a natural situation and not structured into the process. Designing it into the process penalizes all scouts and teaches a multitude of poor lessons both for the scouts and the adult leaders.

GTA says ... "Section 8.0.0.2 Boards of Review Must Be Granted When Requirements Are Met A Scout cannot be denied this opportunity. When he believes he has completed all the requirements, including a Scoutmaster conference, it is up to the unit leader and committee to assure a board of review is held. Scoutmasters, for example, do not have authority to expect a boy to request one, or to defer him, or to ask him to perform beyond the requirements in order to be granted one." In our troop, a scout asks the scoutmaster for a conference. Right before the SMC or right after the SMC, the sco

The problem is not price or fit for me. I've had three pair rip. Yeah, I exchanged them, but it gets old. Very old. The old official pants NEVER torn or worn out. They went for years and years. The material in the new pants is just not that durable. I've given up on the official pants.

TroopTrack.com and ScoutTrack.com are not related at all. ScoutTrack.com is an old fashioned interface once you start using it. Think IBM mainframe. TroopTrack.com is a new company. The confusion is because the two companies bought their graphics from the same person. ScoutTrack.com only uses the graphics for their marketing pages. I feel very bad for TroopTrack.com as they are the new product and have been burned by it. ----------------------- SOAR is very good. If anyone wants a google app script to print out their SOAR calendar in a nice usable layout, message me. I'

Eagle69 wrote: 'The only part that will cause us a bit of headache is the fact that it is now an "official" troop function.' There's no change in how troops work with eagle projects. It's the candidates project. It's only part of the troop program from the view of policies, procedures, G2SS, etc.

SOAR is the best match I've found so far. They lack a few key features such as a printable calendar, but I've written google app scripts to get around that shortcoming. - Generic Google or Yahoo solutions lack the benefit of scouting specific features. Such as multiple automatic mailing lists generated off the roster for patrol/den specific emailings, leader specific, everyone, etc. - ScoutTrack.com is great for managing advancement. But it means not using TroopMaster anymore. Good and bad. We've used it for years to manage the cub scout pack. - The one I'm watching wit

hicountry: Your advice is very practical and it gets the job done. And in every day life I might even do that. But it's a classic ethics lesson. I'd have a real hard time coaching the scout to keep two sets of books. That's really what's being suggested. An official statement that you actually sign your name on saying the info is true and accurate. The scout's putting his word and character on line saying the numbers are right. And a second set of books that tracks the actual donations. Not cool. It may work and it's just a little omission, but it leaves out the scout oath

Mad Max wrote: "No wonder BSA wants these things to become Unit events." Only in terms of following BSA policies, procedures and Guide To Safe Scouting. Not in terms of coordination and planning.

twocubdad: Agree with your comments. Perhaps one area that's not 100% clear that I'm still trying to understand is ... "While it is now explicit that Eagle Projects are fully considered troop programs". I think that overstates the new situation. The eagle workbook has it on page 22 under "Risk Management". It says ... "Projects are considered part of a units program and are treated as such with regard to policies, procedures, and requirements regarding Youth Protection, two-deep leadership, etc. The health and safety of those working on Eagle projects must be integrated with proj

Beavah: Very well said. "So the way I'm tellin' people to think about it is that they should go through the same planning process they do with regular troop outings. I think that's accurate and it's a good way of explaining it. The old system was far far beyond what we'd do for any troop event, summer camp, high adventure, fundraising or court of honor. The new eagle workbook "proposal" is the same level of detail we do for our standard outings, even the week long summer camp. I also like statement from the view of eliminating a double standard that events administered by adul

eisely: Great job! Sounds just like what our district does. Our guy doesn't do just Mondays, but he does protect his calendar, his life and his marriage. I should mention I've heard a few of those conversations when they are face to face. His first question is also ... when do you turn 18?(This message has been edited by fred8033)

Mad Max: Just to be clear, are you saying your scouts will be required to do the final plan? You wrote "cover to cover" and "for lack of a final plan" and "I got no pushback at all". But you also wrote "is to do it just like the (BSA) book presents it". So, I'm confused. I'm just not sure what you would get pushback for if your doing it just like the book presents it. I know TwoCubDad said his unit won't sign Eagle Proposals or Fundraising Plans without a detailed budget. Essentially establishing unit expectations that are beyond the BSA book. Are you saying your unit won't acc

Eagle92 wrote: "... but I beleive it is council wide. " In our council, every district can be very different. I've been amazed just how different. Our district runs the EBORs at roundtable but a neighboring district has troops schedule the EBORs and only supply a district advancement rep to sit on the EBOR. Others districts schedule them ad-hoc. Even year to year it changes greatly as people change. Before it took a committee approval to approve an project proposal and took months. Now, it's one really knowledgable scouter and he can usually meet with you the same week.

Eagle92 wrote: "They meet once a month to do EBORs and approve projects." IMHO ... once a month approval is not showing much support for the scout. Though there may not be a rule against it, IMHO that's just not cool. EBORs once a month ... fine. It should NOT affect eagle rank. BUT approving projects once a month adds headaches and delays for the scout. What if they want changes or won't sign, then it's two months to get a signature. Project approval should not take more than a week ... excluding scout effort and scout time to make corrections. For my son's project, the

Basement ... It's all a matter of #1 project needs and #2 proportion. IMHO, food during the event is a "supply" (volunteer incentive or health and safety protection) to get the job done. Food after the event is a thank you. The eagle project workbook specifically calls out both food as a supply and calls out saying thank you in the project report. IMHO, volunteer labor is also a donation just like money, wood, shovels, etc. Proportion... if the project is to restore a stream filled by sediment or to remove a forest of buckthorn, you might need a large crew for multiple days. Yo