fred johnson

I so so so so want a set of those patches. So cool.

There may be some merit to adults earning Eagle, but it would have to be significantly different. Currently, scouters are awarded Silver Beaver or District Award of Merit. They also can earn their Woodbadge beads and other recognition. I could see it very meaningful for a scouter to be awarded Eagle as recognition. And, it would eliminate the always clumsy congratulations and/or jokes to one of the genders receiving one of the awards. It would help make many "committed" volunteers be as full of members as less committed members who earned Eagle in their youth. It might also have a nice side effect of removing the last minute panic many youth have for earning Eagle before eighteen. It might have a nice healing opportunity for those who lost out for what ever reason. They can commit to helping the scouting program as an adult and then receive what they missed out on as a youth. Just a thought. I'm not sure I'd really advocate for it. Just a thought.

The future of education is online with a strong hybrid of proprietary and A LOT OF OPEN CONTENT. I am pleasantly surprised that MB book price is lower than what I swear it was a few years ago when the new format was published. But even then, I can't really recommend buying ebooks. If it was only one scout ever for that badge, just google the topics to fufil the requirements. If it is a common badge, buy the paper copy. ... Most every requirement can be successfully learned through google as much as reading a merit badge handbook. As for ebook, my eleven year old does not do email and I don't want his scouting experience to be walking up to me every few weeks asking for my credit card. And, I don't want to tie my online accounts to his cheap tablet. I did that mistake once years ago with an XBox live account. It took years to delink and somehow my older son can still get associated with my account. Argh. .... I'll go keep with the paper copy or google. Purchasing ebooks is not where I want my son to go. Sometimes as a scouter, I feel we are more a BSA revenue stream than a valued member of a team. UPDATE - pleasantly surprised that BSA provides useful links on the bottom of the merit badge pages to sources that have answers to the topics.

Ummm ... The vast majority of swear words absolutely come from words related to body parts or bodily functions or relating to the practice and use of said body parts. The only non-related ones would be darn / d### and hell. I understand your point. It's just argumentative and not useful to the original poster. I was trying to point out that one person's swear word is another person's unoffensive word.

... not going there ... I consider that a swear word ... a minor one, but still a swear word. So would many others. Just because it's common in the culture does not mean it's not a swear word. Especially in scouting where you include many home schooled and/or strong faith-based families. A vulgar image is being used as an adjective. Same as if you used private body parts or bodily functions to draw vulgar images. That's why I asked the original question. I consider the above crude, lacking sophistication and absolutely not the vocabulary to use around scouts. I'm pretty middle of the road too. BUT I never use that word. Period. Others would clearly consider it swearing. ... That's why I asked. The original poster complained about swearing. What two people hear can be interpreted very differently.

When it's an adult behavior or training or habit issue, it needs to be dealt with by an adult. Period. I have a lot of respect for a young man would would stand up and point out what is wrong and try to get it to change. A lot of respect. It's the type of youth we want to become an Eagle scout. Period. But if the issue is the adults are doing things wrong and won't let the scouts be and are barking orders, those adults won't listen to scouts. They will say you are complaining. Find another troop. Then get as many of your buddies to join it. Unfortunately, I suspect some of the adult problems are parents of some of your buddies. That will be sad. ... BUT ... you need to preserve as much of YOUR scouting experience as possible. the youth scouting years are short and go quick. Switch now so you can enjoy as much as you can. Hopefully, many of your buddies will join you. Just don't stick around an environment you will complain about. Scouting years are short. Good luck !!! FINISHING RANK ... Visit troops. See if they will work with you to finish rank. If they won't, perhaps you should keep looking. IMHO, switch and switch now.

Swearing ... What do you mean by swear words. There are some words clearly categorized as swear words. Those should be absolutely off the table for scout environments. But there are many words that depend on who you are and where you grew up. Heck, there were words I was shocked to hear said because I was shielded as a kid. Now, though I view them more as blunt or slightly crud. And, there is taking the Lord's name in vain. I'd prefer all those words would be avoided, but it is also not realistic to change some people's basic language arts. One big regret we had in our troop was that we got a kid who was a potty mouth. We knew it the first camp out. I really wish we would have stopped him earlier than we did. He was a poison to the environment and to those looking to join our troop. Just the same as bullying or just plain mean kids. Find a way to deal with it and deal with it early.

... 3,500 scouts ... really small ... they should pull in three or four or five or six or more councils into that merger.

I enjoyed my Woodbadge training and I learned a lot from it. It also drove me to get involved more and I'm still working in those roles or related roles . I do have one suggestion related to Woodbadge. Update guide to safe scouting to state that adult leaders can walk out of beading ceremonies that are longer than two minutes to preserve the health and safety of those officiating the ceremony.

I hugely agree. Even more so, dealing with bad behavior in itself is a teaching opportunity. Dealing with it teaches ... proper behavior how to stand up for what is right how to address issues that boorish and mean and bad behavior will not be tolerated Most importantly, dealing with bad behavior teaches our scouts that we want to be the type of person who will stand-up and call a spade a spade. Strong character. If it's wrong, we need to have strong enough character to stand up and tell others it's wrong ... in a constructive way. Not dealing with bad behavior also teachers lessons and they are the type of lessons that will destroy boy scouting. Everyone fears loosing scouts and everyone wants to help all youth. ... It's to the degree that we are shooting ourselves in the foot. Scouting is good for every youth, but every youth is not good for scouting. Either scouts live within the values of scouting or go find somewhere else to spend your time. May I suggest the local soccer or baseball program.

I very much agree. I call it mentoring. You call it what you want.

Interesting comments. I am very much wondering too.

Agreed. But the challenge I'm having is pack administration. Costs are escalating big time. Ten years ago, a Tiger book was $5.50. Now, it's $13.99. 254% increase. Boy's Life is relatively flat in cost. BSA membership has more than doubled. Same with Boy Scouts, merit badge books are $4.99. That seems down from where it was when they switched to color glossy printing. But it is still significantly more than it was ten years ago. BSA literature should be online for members and let us buy the stuff when we want it. Stop wasting money producing things that people need now and then. Put it online to get into people's hands as soon as possible and then it will be accessible from everywhere.

Generally, the "past" ones we've been talking about are Eagle Scout or similar. Silver Beaver would draw concern about current activities and distractions.

Different view Past significant achievements and awards ... always list. It shows drive, competency and that others have evaluated you and marked you high. Past volunteering ... it depends on the situation. Current service ... I would not list. Partly to avoid controversy. Mainly because of commitment? Will you be investing in becoming the best you can at the job I'm hiring for? Or are you so busy with your volunteer commitments that your paid job is a 9 to 5 punch the clock relationship. Maybe lumping you into problem incidents they've had with other employees who can't stay late, can't work mandatory times or can't be flexible. Or, will they try to run their 2nd volunteer job from their primary paid job? An experienced manager will be thinking of these things. They want someone who will commit to their job and their company ... not be partially committed and partly committed elsewhere. ... and ... scouting volunteers often get overly committed to scouting. It becomes a distraction from their main job. Past achievements and awards are almost always a plus. Past volunteering maybe ... such as if you need to demonstrate capability. Raising current potentially conflicting commitments is usually bad.

Statistically ... I'm not sure the number and severity of incidents warrants a redesign. Still, training can always be improved. Simple stuff ... ... Every SM & ASM should have current youth protection, CPR and first aid training. WFA too for more aggressive trips. .... All BSA training courses should be available online. Online sets a consistent tone. Too often BSA volunteers add their own "flavor" and that person's presence allows them to emphasize and de-emphasize differently than BSA. As for the rest, I think a significant shift needs to occur. Mentorship. To be a "trained" leader, you should attend a few other troop's meetings and at least one camp out from another troop. To keep your training current, you should attend another troop's meeting at least once a year and maybe another troop's camp out maybe every two, three or four years. It's about cross-pollination, opening up communication, seeing other ideas and getting to know other leaders that can help you become better. The district training committee could recommend who should visit who. For example, some troops and leaders will be good mentors. In other cases, those who need to visit might end up being a good mentor for the unit they visit. I also think this addresses a very dysfunctional BSA concept. Unit commissioners. BSA commissioners don't work. Period. The whole program needs to be redesigned. IMHO, you could merge the mentor-ship aspects of training and unit commissioners into a single very effective program. As for "treks", the only way I really learned how to plan one well was by being with someone more experienced as they planned and coordinated. I think trek planning could uses some resources and/or check sheets. ... BUT ... it would be useful to say "We're going on a canoe trip in four months" and at roundtable be able to connect with another leader who can help mentor you through how to have a great trip. We're doing this now for Eagle projects. Every project is to have a district assigned Eagle coach. Why not scout leaders too ? You submit a tour plan, here's your trip mentor.

Wow ... long thread.... It gets old now hearing one person prompt another: "Have you been trained ????" In my book, it's right up there with discussing and debating "boy led". Both are objectives, but are so misunderstood and out-of-context that the phrases are worthless. I have over 100 entries on by BSA training record. Very few were useful. Rarely did the training address what I was dealing with. It really depends on timing and the trainer bringing something special to the table. Otherwise, most of what I have learned has been face-to-face with other scouters. BALOO --> I had an incredible trainer that really helped orient us what needed to be done. Songs! Skits! Fun! How to run a camp fire. etc. How to run the camp. Wilderness first aid --> A few parts were useful, but most of it was a waste. The useful parts were the role plan and getting used to the idea of establish roles at the scene. Someone coordinating. Someone giving first aid. Someone going for help. etc. Some parts were useful such as realizing just how many people were needed to evacuate a person from the wild. But otherwise, there was not that much useful. IOLS --> I had been camping with the troop several years before I took it. It was not that useful. Woodbadge --> The topics were not useful at all. But watching how the ideal troop was run was very useful and made the course worthwhile. Trainers Edge --> Repeat of college public speaking courses Other than a few select training experiences, the training has been flat. IMHO ... I agree with an earlier post. The best trainer is experience. You want to learn how a troop should camp, go camp with another troop.

My question is what did BSA keep back then? Did each council have a paper file on each scout? How was rank and merit badge advancement tracked at the council level ? For the last 15 years, I've been able to go to the council registrar and get a printed record of each scout's advancement if I need it. Just wondering if something like that was available back then too.

I'm sorry for your brother. His scout leaders did not do right by him. Leaders screw up and burn out and other ugly things. That's why there are multiple leaders. Someone should have stepped up to help resolve the adult-induced problem your brother had. I was not a scout 30 years ago. It would be interesting to learn more about how BSA recorded advancement back then.

The excel files and other are for camp planning and mainly updating the treasurer's records. (deposit records, etc). We use Quicken for that and it works well. Heck, you can effectively tell who attended what by just looking at the scout accounts. There are many different sources. But mainly to tell who is OA eligible, etc, we pretty much know immediately. There are always a few we have to figure out. But it's quick and easy. But we are also between 30 and 45 members. Not that large of a troop. To each their own. I personally find the tone / attitude of the scouting troop / environment when we just let the scouts manage it. No reports. No scouts having to audit their "troop record". But to each their own.

The term "unit leader" is for the youth. It's who the youth work with. That's the CM or SM. I pulled your reply because it hits home. What you say is best, ... if the boys don't know the CC other than maybe effectively an adjunct ASM. Ideally, the boys don't work with anyone on the committee side ... except during their boards of review. It sometimes gets my goat when we hear who's who. COR, CC, SM, ASM, MC, etc. The only ones who should be working with the scouts regularly are the SM and ASMs. Yet, I see it over and over again where members of the committee seem to have more interaction than most ASMs. Ideally ... SM / ASM should be a statement "working with scouts." CC / MC should mean "not working directly with scouts".

CalicoPenn ... I don't think there is a disagreement as much as poor wording or poor interpretation. I meant by going through the district exec because the institutional head doesn't have a signature line on the adult leader applications. The IH actually has it easier. All the IH has to do is say, I want this guy out of my troop and it's a done deal. Generally, the district exec and the institutional head should have each others contact number. The district exec should be contacting him every year to visit. And yes, he can do it through re-charter as the IH signs that. But that's generally clean up time and the paperwork is processed by the CC and/or the COR. Also ... as you say ... politics of who knows who is always an issue. With that said, the COR & CC can remove people. Scoutmaster can't remove people on his on ... unless he's a buddy of the IH. And then, it's the IH doing it. Not the scoutmaster. ... Sort of a regression into a meaningless discussion huh. .

Our troop (youth and adult leaders) focus on program (camping, activities and basic skills). Advancement is encouraged, but an individual scout basis. Our advancement chair deals with recording rank and merit badge completion. That's it. Nothing else goes into ScoutNet. Just ranks and merit badges. He has an "advancement" box. The box is at every meeting. At any time, a scout or leader can drop a completed blue card in it. It also has a little journal. When someone completes a board of review, the BOR or advancement chairs logs the scouts name, new rank and date. Once every week or so, the advancement chair opens the box and logs into ScoutNet and enters the merit badges and ranks. ScoutNet provides PDF reports formatted for the scout shop. It provides advancement summary reports to email the scoutmaster and his assistants. We can even email parents pages from it. There is no need to discuss or resolve "discrepancies" in a non-authoritative / duplicate tracking database. The book contains the authorized signers signature and is proof. BSA ScoutNet is the official database. Everything else is just duplicate. And we just don't want to record 100 individual small requirements for each scout. It serves no purpose. Period. In our unit, the scout uses his book to track advancement. Troop leaders track ranks and MBs. We just don't see much use for tracking every moment of every camp out of every event. We have calendars. We have excel files of summer camp. If we have to find something, we can. But ya know what, it's the scouts job to manage his career. We don't need to create extra infrastructure to compensate for the scout's organization.

I very much disagree. ScoutNet is authoritative and can be taken for proof. Paper scoutbook can be taken as proof. If you loose a scoutbook, you can re-create major advancements (rank and meritbadge) from BSA ScoutNet. If ScoutNet is wrong, you can use the book to prove. Really what's going on is the detailed individual advancements. When we've had a lost or destroyed book, the scoutmaster sits down with the scout and his new book. Then they review the in-progress rank and discuss the status of each requirement. If the scout can answer where or when it was done and convince the scoutmaster, then the scoutmaster initializes the requirement as done. It doesn't take long. It's a very personal, one-on-one situation that is based on trust and building a relationship. I'd take that any day over having to maintain a large database of individual requirements that after the rank or merit badge is earned ... just don't matter. The people who really use those detailed advancement reports are the adults and the parents. And, IMHO, it perverts the program into adult controlled advancement. The best way to track individual requirements is in the scout handbook the scout caries and the merit badge paper blue card.

Absolutely 100% true. It really should be pushed that way.