fred johnson

No age or rank requirements. Expectation that the scout will give it his best effort and is willing to learn and grow. SMs job is to mentor the new SPL. Interesting idea. I like it in many ways. I don't like it in others. I need to think about this. Positive is that each patrol gets an equal vote. You don't have a large patrol out-voting a smaller patrol. As such, it could be more fair. Positive is that it reinforces the role of a patrol leader and the role of the patrol leaders council. Negative is that it could move the selection of SPL into a more back-room approach like the old politics of 100 years ago. Interesting idea though with merit.

acco40's comments may have jumped too quick to finding a new scoutmaster, but the point is right. The BOR is a quality check on the troop and the troop program and much less so on the scout. The scout quality check is when each requirement was tested and recorded as passed. The whole point of acco40's comment is that you can ask a scout to perform a skill. But if the scout fails the skills test, feed the failure back into the troop program to improve the troop program so that scouts retain skills better. You can't fail the scout on the skill unless further investigation reveals that the scout was never tested or had never passed. Acco40 used the example of the square knot. The example I see regularly is the scout oath and law. It is a requirement for tenderfoot and the scoutmaster tests them on it. But I repeatedly hear them wrong at first class, star and life ranks. Heck, it's often said wrong at EBORs. So we used that feedback to improve the troop program and re-emphasize oath and law during the troop meeting openings.

I was thinking the same thing. BSA does a really poor job explaining to the public the relationship between BSA and chartered organizations. But then again, IMHO, BSA has played fast and loose with "chartered organizations owning" the units. As for "closely held", I'd have a hard time finding any scouting unit NOT closely held as most churches provide the space and signs off on the leaders. IMHO, if you actually meet at the church, then it's hard to argue against closely held. IMHO, it would only be not closely held if the church choose to say it's not closely held and I think there are many churches that would say that. But then BSA has other issues with that such as who is actually vetting the leaders and making sure it's a quality program. If this is a first step in anything, it's a first step in getting BSA and chartered organizations to flush out their relationships.

Gear the program down to the number of people helping. Less help means smaller program. Look for great events and activities that are simple and automatic. As others step up to help, then you can gear the program up again.

No. "Groups" have members and becoming a member can be controlled. Conceptually it makes sense to have a "closed" group ... aka only accessible to members. "Pages" have likes and do not have membership. Conceptually it does not make sense to have a "closed" page as there is nothing to define who it can access it.

I meant to ask about benefits of page or group ... public, closed or secret. As for BSA rules ... IMHO ... BSA does not use precise language that matches Facebook terms. When I see comments about no "private groups", private is different than Facebook's closed or secret groups. Also by saying "no private groups", I am assuming some other type of "group" is okay. IMHO, "private groups" means we don't want an adult leader creating a communication channel for just him and one or more selected scouts. I interpret "public" as public to the entire troop or at least a larger set that matches youth-protection rules. Essentially, social media needs to continue the the youth-protection rules.

Should a unit's Facebook presence be a "page" or a "group"? Page ---- PRO - More visible than a group ---- PRO - Easy and automatic ---- CON - Can only wait for others to "Like" Group ---- PRO - Provides a mailing list ---- PRO - Better notification as members are notified unlike "Likes" that will "probably" be notified. ---- PRO - Can invite people to be members ---- ??? - People have to be "accepted" as members ---- PRO - Better secured as only members see posts and other info Any guidance would be appreciated.

Bad Wolf ... Good section to quote. Where does it say scouts can participate in an official merit badge program and then leaders can choose to not recognize the merit badges? These are the council camps. You may not agree with the interpretations, but it is effectively the council running the camps. The 2nd paragraph is key and the references in that paragraph. If dissatisfied, file a report. If you don't hear, call. If still not satisfied, escalate. Follow-through. ================================= Then apply section 7.0.4.6 ... Only time you can require a scout to work with a follow-on or another counselor is if the the leader made the scout aware of the mandated procedures and issues and the scout choose to ignore them. Except for that, the correction occurs through the council and MB system without affecting the scout. ================================= Now there is ... section 7.0.4.7 Limtied Recourse for Unearned Merit Badges Section 7.0.4.7 ---> "This procedure is NOT ... FOR INTERJECTING ANOTHER SET OF STANDARDS OVER THOSE OF A MERIT BADGE COUNSELOR ... " It is for the individual case. It is for the egregious situation. Example: Camping merit badge approved and the scout only has ten days camping. It is not for taking the council summer camp merit badge program and then denying all the scouts for any of the merit badges. ================================= Personally, I find it hard to get scouts to buy into the values of scouting and take scouts to the official council camp ... as the council that approves and administers their advancement and awards and is the official keeper and interpreter of the rules ... take scouts to the official council summer camp and at the same time tell the scouts that the council does not know what they are doing with the summer camp merit badge system. Even though the rest of the scouts at camp are getting the badges. Even though the camp does the OA call-out. There is a level setting of fairness and just a general dissing of the scouting program you are trying to get them to buy into. In my opinion, support the council, take your scouts there. If you think the program is being shorted, file a report. If you don't hear back, call. If you are not satisfied, escalate it. And keep doing it until you are satisfied or pounded down. ... or run your own summer camp by renting a group camp site somewhere and do it all yourself ...

... fixing ...

Usually one of the 18+ staffers then is the officially registered MBC. The younger staffer still signs, but has a process agreement with the administering council that that process is okay. Not pretty, but understandable. And if they do a quality job, it's nice to have a scout closer to their age do the teaching. I always have problem with trying to 2nd guess or subvert the camp processes. I'm all for quality experiences. But I always fear creating a negative experience from a marginal one. Merit badges are generally introductory. If the scout experienced and learned some things about the topic and the MBC process was the agreed and advertised process, then I'm not going to step in. I'm going to leave it between the counselor and the scout. And, I'll shake their hand and congratulate them for trying something new. I often provide comments back to the camp about quality, completeness or experience. I often try to get the scout out learning more or develop a skill I think was weak or missed. But I would not interfere with the process between the scout and the MBC ... UNLESS something egregious happened. by egregious, I mean such as for camping the scout received a signed blue card from summer camp but the staff never verified for the camp he camped 20 nights and we know he only camped 10 nights with the troop. BLUNTLY - The MBC process is not troop advancement territory. It is between the council, the district, the MBC and the scout. SMs sign cards, but that is for a conversation between scout and SM. It is not approval or endorsement. BLUNTLY - It is wrong to take the scouts to a summer camp that has a merit badge program, but then not let them earn the merit badges from the camp. It may be well meant to give the scouts a better experience, but I see it effectively as mean (not intentionally, but still mean) and creating a negative experience.

@@lepzid is getting good advice. Remove emotions. Escalate it to the institutional head and/or the council. Let them tell you the boundaries you can work within. IMHO, this exposes the built in contradiction. Parents camp and help and drive scouts to camp. But "parents" are not reference checked and not trained. Only leaders.

Yes.

So right. Pack meeting maturity lowers. Heck, most 4th and 5th graders just don't want to sit next to most K & 1st graders.

Yeah, I agree. I would have waited for wolf or bear to get my sons involved. there is no program loss. the only challenge is most boys join when Tigers. And, if you don't get critical mass, then whole grades fail in a pack. So, my delaying would have just helped cause more problems. I would not switch packs though. IMHO, scouting is best when with friends. Friends for elementary grades are mainly school classmates. So as long as the pack is mostly "okay", the pack associated with school is more important than finding the best pack.

Younger siblings "drug" along. That is a huge factor. IMHO, if I had to do it over again, I'd be 100% okay with drop your kid off. As long as we have adult coverage for safety and help, fine.

I'm sad. I just received a very thoughtful note from a long time Cub Scout family dad. His first son crossed to Boy Scouts last year. Now his 2nd decided to drop out of Cub Scouts. 2nd son was in a small den and there was just not that much fun for him. But this is a pattern I've seen over the years. Families with multiple sons are greatly involved for the 1st sons Cub Scouting years. Then, when the 2nd comes along, there is a hesitation. They've been through the program as a family. Seen most of the recurring events and camps. And it's like there's a decision about five more years in the program ... that is very very repetitive. There is nothing fresh for the parents and the younger kids have seen most of it through tagging along during family events with their older brother. I really wish we could just go back to the old of the 1980s where Cub Scouts was a much shorter program. Let them play soccer and baseball in kindergarten and 1st grade. When they are ready for knives and fire, let them try Cub Scouts. Then, odds are more likely they only have one Cub in the program at a time instead of multiple den meetings per week, etc. It's more fresh and less recurring too. I just really want as many scouts to get into Boy Scouts to try it. The program is easier on the adults and IMHO has a much bigger impact on the life of the scout. This is an old recurring theme with me. I'm just sad to see such a nice family step back.

Looked at our city, our county and a near by county. Things must vary around the country. In our city, our county and near by county, the CERT related programs require age 18 or up. One county web site says the state requires CERT participants to be 18 or older.

Scouting as practiced will change little visibly. But this subject has upset people before and will now. This is not about keeping everyone happy. It's about stopping the hemorrhage and getting to a final state. Sadly some will leave because they can't see past their hardened positions. Hopefully though, this will help close out the controversy of the subject.

With all the posturing, the most interesting part of this is that scouting is going to change very little. The arguments will be remembered way more than any noticeable change. Maybe the biggest change will be that we'll eventually change to completely private and individual bathroom and shower facilities. No more scout facilities, adult men facilities and female facilities. It will just be all individual bathrooms. And given society today, that might be the best thing that happens.

Yes. You're lucky. I had a whole diatribe about the wording "emergency service project". I envision an extremely rushed situation to trim some shrubs.

Ummm ... yes. Away from the emergency. In 1940, maybe a 14 year old would be useful in an emergency. Today, they add danger and an unknown that emergency responders want to minimize. Agreed. But this is one merit badge and merit badges are "individual" requirements. So if a troop or district wants to focus on teaching emergency preparedness in different aspects, fine. But to earn the merit badge, we think the camp drill is real, used and needs to be understood by the scout. As such, it can fulfill the requirement. Always continually teach and grow the scouts. But the original post was about a specific requirement for a specific merit badge.

My apologies. What two versions of these new rules? I'm confused as what BSA is proposing does what you indicate later in your post. BSA is letting the CO and essentially only the CO choose.

etrailtoeagle ... interesting look. I like much of what I see. I like that the "tour" came up quick and painless as I switched screens.

Thank you for keeping it short.