emb021

"Why they don't post the actual image files? I don't know." To prevent unauthorized use. I would think they would have some means to allow authorized people to get the appropriate files. Have you tried checking with your council office?

"When I mentioned at the scout shop that I had a hard time making the numbers straight on DS's uniform, they suggested sewing the numbers together first." This is why getting the special order one piece unit numbers is a good idea... Minimum order is just 12. Suggest that your Pack think about doing this.

Keep in mind that Powder Horn is NOT basic training to be an adult Venturing leader. That's Venturing Leader Specific Training, which is 5 hours long. The purpose of Powder Horn is a High Adventure Resources Course. Its to give adult leaders (venturing & boy scout) exposure to the resources they would need to deliver a high adventure program for their troop & crew and support Venturers in earning Ranger. (the website will have full info on this) So, unless you daughter is joining a crew that is high adventure and the venturers want to earn Ranger, you may want to think about whether to take PH. Not saying you shouldn't take it, but take it for the right reasons.

My understanding is that councils have received the first patch. Whether they have distributed them to boys is another matter. Some may hold off until boys have made more payments or the like. I know I haven't seen any non-staff youth or adult wearing the patches, so don't think the councils in my area have started to give any out. Hopefully soon.

"Now I have seen everything! National Supply is now offering scout garden gnomes starting at $200 to $300 each, wow what a deal, lol, made in China too no doubt." Uh, those aren't garden gnomes. (I would NOT put them outside!) They are Tom Clark collectible gnomes. The BSA actually had 2 made about 10-15 years ago, a Boy Scout and a Cub Scout gnome. While they are pricey, they are limited edition collector items. More info on Tom Clark gnomes: http://www.cairnstudio.com/index.shtml

"So don't go getting all excited everyone, it doesn't sound like this club ever amounted to anything much, so emb021 your iconic imagery of Baden Powell can remain intact, lol." Not sure why you are refering to me as I didn't post in this thread.

"I haven't seen the new Scout Handbook. Have they started running ads in there again?" Nope. No ads.

Roundtables are still called Roundtables. No idea what this "coordinated district meeting" is. Have you tried contacting your DC or DE? In one council I work with they have a "council coordinated meeting", which is a meeting of all council committee chairs, district chairs, etc. This CDM sounds like that, but most councils call it a 'district meeting'. Its just for the DChair, DE, DComm, and district chairs. Rotating meetings is a good way to ensure that people will miss them, as they will forget what day they are meeting. Its best to be consistant on the dates (1st Monday, 2nd & 4th Thursday, etc). None of the councils I have been involved with has had rotating roundtables. Always on the same night. Keep in mind its one night a month. Put a ASM in charge and go, or send an ASM in your place.

In my old troop we did this. Blue cards were given back to the scout once we had the troop records recorded. Depending on how fast we got the merit badges, they would be presented to the scout as soon as possible, to put on his sash. At the court of honor, he would be recognized for the merit badges he had earned and presented with the merit badge cards. (same method was usually followed for rank patches/cards)

""Its before my time but ... Is this what happened when they made YPT mandatory? 40% seems a bit high, but did they really lose a lot of units over that?" "The difference with YPT is that it can be taken quickly and easily on line. " Quite true. YPT has been mandatory for certain things for a long time. If you were attending a National event (Jamboree or NOAC) you had to have taken YPT "recently" (whatever that meant). When it was only available as a video training, presented by a qualified person, it was a real pain to get it for some. Now its on-line and I can knock it out every year in a short time and not worry. And they are putting more of this training on-line. Most (maybe soon all) the safety-related training is there. Fast Start. This is Scouting. Except for position-specific, one can get all the other training they need to be 'basic trained' on-line. So there is little excuse for not being trained. And no one said you HAVE to attend the position-specific training to get it. It can be done one-on-one or even self study.

At my LSS, the patch was out with all the others, but the ribbons were behind the counter. No problem getting the patches, was able to get a set of ribbons to use as a display item.

"Actually I'm wrong the WCA has always been a temp insignia since I was a youth. Just double checked my BSHB, the 1988 printing as mine was lost, and it states on page 53 that the WCA is a temp insignia." True. The WCA has ALWAYS been worn on the right pocket. However, in the late 90s I started to see some people wearing it in place of the World Crest (which I still see occasionally today). Most gave me some song and dance that their scoutmaster told them that's the new position per National. A lot of nonsense as National never approved it for that location.

I have the $300 book. The way its put together, you will understand the reason for the cost. They will soon putting out a more resonable priced version of the book that doesn't have all the extras that caused that extra price: http://www.amazon.com/Boy-Scouts-America-Centennial-History/dp/0756656346/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251745884&sr=1-1 Putting out high end items as a way to generate revue is fine. The BSA and many other orgs have been doing that for years. Keep in mind that because they are higher priced items, the number produced is MUCH smaller (which is part of the reason for the high price).

Please use correct terminology. Venturing Crew Advisors: This is Scouting Youth Protection Fast Start- Venturing Crew Advisor Leader Specific Training- Venturing Leader Specific Training The above has always been required to be a "basic trained" venturing adult. "Venturing Crew Advisor Outdoor Leadership Skills" No such course. If you meant Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills, be advanced that course is intended for Boy Scout leaders AND not all Venturing Crews are outdoor oriented. So requiring ALL Venturing Crew adults to take it is nonsense. Why should a sport-oriented crew have to take it or a church crew?

FWIW- I picked up patches at my local Scout Shop for these 2 training courses: Aquatics Supervision/Swimming and Water Rescue, Aquatics Supervision/Paddle Craft Safety. Wasn't sure what they were for, but was going to add it to my collection of national patches.

"The new shirts do not have buttons, just Velcro." Not so. The right pocket flap does have a button, for the purpose of hanging patches from it. However, without a button hole to button it on, you run the risk of loosing the patch. And if you get the polywood version of the new shirt, there is no velcro, just buttons on both flaps.

"It seems to me that many of the people currently taking WB21C could benefit greatly from spending more time in the trenches, gaining Scouting experience and taking advantage of some of the other training available. WB21C is being encouraged for Scouters with little or no experience and prerequisites are waived for a large percentage of the attendees." You won't get any arguement from me on this point, but there will be some who will attack you for suggesting it, saying you are trying to go back to the days of exclusivist/elist WB. My view on training, which frankly I got from the BSA, is one of 'take some training', put in to use, 'take some more training', put it to use, and repeat. The BSA has basically different levels of training: * Fast Start * Basic * Supplemental * Advanced Once you get signed up as a leader, you take FS. Its quick, fundamental stuff to get you going in your job. Because its quick, its available via video tape or on-line, so no waiting weeks (or more likely months) to take it. You can do it within a week or so of signing up. Then you take Basic training. Ideally it should be available about twice a year, so hopefully leaders can get it within 6 months or less of signing up. This gives them the basics of how to do their job. Supplemental comes next. Some are short, some are long. Each are on a different topic. Some on-line, some in-person. This is your safety training (Safe Swim Defense, et al), your skills training, and so on. Roundtable is supposed to be on-going supplemental training, done each month. Wood Badge is your advanced training. Its a big course, so most councils may only offer it once a year. Obviously adults should have basic training under their belt (its required). BUT, adults should also have some experience as well. Personally, I feel a year or two of experience BEFORE they take WB. But as noted, too often (I think due to courses being run more often, and needing to met their minimum requirements) there is a push to get more people in. Too often these are cub scout leaders, who are many times finishing up their tenure as a CS leader and about to move to Boy Scouts (because they are following their son...). I really think there needs to be an effort to get leaders to wait a little bit before jumping into WB. But if you say this, you are seen as an elitist. In the old WB, it was difficult to get in. Most councils ran courses every 2-3 years. So they had to be picky about who the let in. Too often a scout leader took WB almost like it was a capstone of his career, after being a scoutmaster for a decade or two. Personally I feel that's too long. I think taking it during your second year at a minimum is what we should strive for.

AFAIK, you would not be considered a basic trained Venturing leader as you don't have all the requisit training, which now comprises: * Venturing Fast Start * This is Scouting * Venturing YPT * Venturing Leader Specific Training. While Venturing is largely Exploring, the programs are not 100% the same. I have a copy of the old pre-1998 Explorer Basic Leader Training syllabus. The VBLT (aka VLST) was based on it, but had additional content, such as the segment on advancement. Since the split, new changes have occured in Venturing (6 experience areas out, new stuff like the awards and new programs). So you do need to take all the training to be considered trained. I don't think there was any policy of 'grandfathering' in those who took the prior EBLT. It wouldn't take a lot of time. 3 of the above can be done on-line and fairly quickly. VLST is 5 hours. Me, I took it years ago just to do it, even tho I probably knew more then the guy presenting it (and I've presented it about a dozen times since).

"It's had enough time, if the goal was to pilot it Nationally, then deploy it to Regions, to be pushed out." But we don't know if the goal was ever to deploy it to Regions. The old NJLIC was never provided outside of Philmont. The current NAYLE has been going on for how long at Philmont?, and seems to have no plans to be provided outside of Philmont.

I took a look at the material on your council website. All of it was marked to indicate that Lion Scouts is a Learning for Life program. But I couldn't find any info on it on the National LfL website.

"Doesn't it cost to have a website?" It can. But there are services out there that offer free websites. I'm an officer in 2 clubs and we have websites hosted on free hosting sites. www.orgsites.org is one such service. Don't know if there is a service providing free hosting for scouting unit websites, but who knows. "If so will the Council office pay for the website for units that don't have the money to set one up?" Nope. If a unit wants a website they are on their own. Don't expect the council to take care of this. Be nice, but don't expect it.

Am a little confused as to what the issue is. "My son is in 1st place rank and he only have 7 MB." What do you mean by '1st place rank'? Tenderfoot, which is the first rank, or First Class Scout? Merit badges are only required once the scout has completed First Class and is working toward Star, Life, Eagle. Frankly, a First Class Scout who has 7 MB is doing pretty good, as Star requires 6. "We would like to inspire him to continue scouting with better MB outcome." Well, I assume he is continuing scouting. What is your criteria for 'better MB outcome'. Each boy is different in terms of what he wants and how he progresses. "The SM is quite busy in our troop and I was wondering if there are other MBC we can contact with to get more advice?" OK, not sure what you are looking for. The SM is the adult leader in charge of the whole troop. He (or she) is probably not focusing on each boy. But there are also the youth leaders: patrol leaders and senior patrol leaders that should also be looking at this. Also, the SM is not the person to be pushing the boys on MBs. If a boy DOES want to work on a merit badge, he sees is SM, gets a blue card and the name of one or more MBC to get with.

"Another option could be running a series of workshops or programs at summer camp tailored to adult leaders who want advanced training in specific skills - nature identification, firebuilding, LNT, knots/lashings, cooking, etc." Actually, what you describe was one of the main descriptions I heard of Flintlock: a series of self-contained 'modules' or workshops on different topics. They could be of different lengths (some may be half a day long, other a full day, others a full weekend). They could be delivered as part of a weekend training course or even as part of a summer camp session (keep in mind that you want flexibility of delivery because of different peoples needs/abilities). The idea was that once someone did a certain number of modules, they would then be recognized with the Flintlock recognition item. "Why does everyone say that a training like this (AOLS) would be supplemental? To me every SM should be required to have training in the outdoors." First off, we don't have required training in the BSA, other then YPT. And as it stands, ALL Boy Scout leaders are required to take IOLS to be considered "basic trained", so we to a degree already required training in the outdoors. You also need to understand that BSA training falls into one of 4 categories: * Fast Start * Basic * Supplemental * Advanced Fast Start is the immediate training, used to be via video now on-line that new leaders take asap to get the basic of their job. Basic training is the set of training we want all leaders to take to be considered "Trained", which entitled them to wear the "Trained" strip, and which is needed to met quality goals for units and councils. This is composed of "This is Scouting", YPT, and whatever position-specific training there is. IOLS is part of that for certain positions. Advanced training is, obviously, the advanced level of training. National considered Wood Badge to be it. Personally I include Powder Horn and Seabadge. Supplemental is everything else. This is your various safety training, skills training, University of Scouting, College of Commissioner Science, Roundtable (yup, its supposed to be on-going supplemental training), the stuff you get at Philmont Training Center, including the PLC, Sea Base Conference center, etc etc. So any such "AOLS" training is probably going to fall into supplemental training.

I took BSLWB back in 1988. It was never advertised as an advanced outdoor course, but the advanced scout leader training course. I took Powder Horn and have gone thru PH CDC. As I noted, its a high adventure resource course. Its promoted as that because we don't want people to think we will turn them into outdoor experts. Someone mentioned the PLC. I've heard that refered to as "NAYLE for adults". Don't know enough about it to see if it could be the AOLS that some want. I DO wish that National (or someone) could develop an AOLS-type course that could be given by councils (or cluster of councils) to met that level of knowledge. As someone else noted, this could be a good supplemental program. Now, for several years there were rumours of a follow-on course to PH called "Flintlock". Some of the rumours seems to make it seem as a sort of AOLS-type of course, or a series of AOLS-type modules. But I saw nothing formal, and with the recent re-org I have no idea where that stands.

Having gone thru the prior WB (Boy Scout Leader Wood Badge), to claim it was an "Advanced Outdoor Leadership Training" would be off. It was never about teaching advanced outdoor skills. They covered outdoor skills, but I don't think I'd call it advanced. I think pretty much all of the outdoor skills I got in WB could be covered in OLS. Powder Horn, by the way, is a high adventure RESOURCE course. Its NOT intended to train people to be outdoor experts. So trying to claim its a "AOLS" course or trying to turn it into that would be incorrect. Now, back in the early 90s, BSA issue a set of Outdoor Skills Instruction booklets that could be used as the basis of a weekend "AOLS" course: Aquatics #33026 Backpacking #33035 Camping #33035 Cooking #33467 Rappelling/Rock Climbing #33027 Survival #33029 Team Building #33004 Are these still available? Could not a local council do fine putting together their own AOLS course? My home council is doing that to a degree as part of thier University of Scouting event.