Eamonn

I think to be fair, I should point out that I'm not the greatest fan of what the BSA is calling Venturing. As I see it, which I'll admit might be way off base, the BSA sees that a group of young people who share a common interest will come together to do things that have to do with this interest. So bringing a group of youth who enjoy knitting together is step one and then finding an organization or group of adults who are knowledgeable about knitting is the next step. I have seen this happen, only it was skateboarding and not knitting. A group of skateboarders with the help of some willing adults got together and formed a Crew. The problem is (Again as I see it!) that youth of this age have lots of different interests and todays skateboarder might very well be tomorrow's knitter. Most (In fact all) of the Venturing Crews in the area where I live are led by people who were involved in Boy Scouting. A lot claim to be "High Adventure". I'm not sure I'd agree with this tag. Most seem to offer something along the lines of a youth club type program that does camp every now and then. Most of the members when the Crew starts are Boy Scouts or former Boy Scouts. Some of these Crews were started with some pushing from the guys who lead the District, in order to help the District end up the year + 1 and receive Quality District. I do know and am very aware that there are some outstanding and wonderful Crews who follow great programs. They just don't seem to have reached the area where I live. Yet?? Ea.

When OJ was planning his ESCOH, He looked at all of this. He decided it was far to wordy and over the top for him, so he didn't use it. I have seen it done well and done not so well. Ea.

artjrk I don't think I have ever heard of the Troop Treasurer ever been called the troop accountant? Unless you think that the Troop is in danger of closing? I really don't think any of this is very important. If you are a lot more lucky than most? The CO might at times be willing to help the Troop out. In most cases I know of, just trying to get the $20.00 rechartering fee from the CO can be a task. The Troop will raise the funds it needs. As this is done in the name of the CO who does "Own" the Troop. It might be said that the CO does own all the gear and the funds. Having a good written record /records of the money coming in and going out (Even if the Scouts have individual accounts) is a good idea. Keeping the COR updated as to what the Troop is doing is also a good idea. Also having someone from the CO know where the stuff is doesn't do any harm. Some CO's do require a copy of the year end account for their tax records. But if I were you I'd not worry about who owns what, the funds will come and go, there will never be enough!! Just be open about what's happening. Eamonn.

SR540Beaver, I think that I dealt with more uniform questions from the parents than just about anything else. As you say from the time we left until the time we got home the Scouts were expected to be and were in Scout uniform. Our Council was kind enough to allow all the Jamboree participants buy what they needed at cost. Once we got on the bus and until we arrived home, both in 01 and in 05 no one, not a single Scout questioned or said anything about being in uniform. I found that a lot of the "Work" that a SM needs to get done is done before the event. You have small groups of Lads who do know each other and bringing them together as Patrols and as a Troop is a task. Sometimes breaking them up is also a task. Some of the adults who staff the Jamboree seem to have not heard about this "Boy Led" thingy. Commissioners who come to inspect the site, seemed a little taken back when I didn't go with them and send the SPL along with the PL from each area. The Sub Camp meetings seemed to forget that some of us had brought our SPL with us. For 2010 the fellow who was ASM 1 is going to be the SM. His ASM 1 will be a great guy, who up until being asked to be the Lodge Adviser was a SM (His term as Lodge Adviser is up and he has returned to the Troop as an ASM) This guy is really good with dealing with the older Scouts. ASM 2 is the Lad who was ASM 3. I have to smile as I remember that back in 2001 He came to me feeling very down and very homesick, I let him use my cell phone to call home, he asked his Mom how the dog was? And then hung up and was then fine for the rest of the time. I have a great deal of affection for this Lad and was overjoyed when he and OJ became close pals. Eamonn.

Please don't feel bad or worry about being new. I think I can put my hand on my heart when I say that right now we have a really great group of forum members, who really do reach out and try to help each other. That isn't to say that at times there isn't lively exchanges. So o fill your cup /glass or whatever and join the fun. Ea.

The Computer store didn't call!! I'm using a six year old lap-top. I do have a newer one, but this one has Windows XP, the other one has Vista. There is another one somewhere that has Windows 98, but the screen has gone bad. OJ has an Apple laptop which I'm not allowed to go near. I never really thought about how much time I now spend on my computer. The other day I was asked to do a survey on my TV viewing. I was surprised at how little time I now spend in front of the telly. What is strange is that I now am home a lot more than I used to be and I now have something like 620 channels from the cable company. I still end up watching PBS!! Eamonn

I'm in Westmoreland Fayette Council. We have four Districts, two in Westmoreland County, which is more? Shall we say affluent then Fayette. One District of the other two which mainly serves Fayette has a School district that is in both counties. I served as Jambo SM for the Fayette end of the Council. I'm not sure why but for both 2001 and 2005 the two SM's served for both Jamborees. The SM from the North Troop (Westmoreland) is a really super fellow, who I really like and admire a lot. The Troop he serves as SM is like a Troop you would read about in Scouting Magazine. The Scouts are all in full uniform, follow the methods of Scouting and offer a program that includes trips to Sea Base, Philmont and all the big ticket Scouting activities. When it came to sign up for the Jambo a number of parents paid the entire amount that night. Meanwhile I had Scouts who started paper routes and were hoping that we would have lots of snow that winter so they could earn extra money to pay their way. I think or like to think that these guys got more out of the event because they had put more into getting there. OJ went and as ever my deal with him was that I'd pay half and he had to earn the rest. One problem a Jambo SM and a WB CD has is that you have all these names and you have to place everyone in Patrols. Kinda hard when you don't know all of them. In 2001 I had a large group of older Scouts who came from a Troop where the 1997 Jambo SM came from, these Lads had been to the Jamboree back in 1997, as had my #3 ASM. This proved to be a bit of a problem as he was in some cases only a few months older than the older Scouts and was a little too close in age to them. I ran the Troop with a very strong Patrol method in practice both before and during the event. This was new to a lot of the Scouts. If I had to pick two things that I think the Scouts seen as being different or got out from attending. One would be the freedom they had. Trying to keep track of where Scouts were going is a lost cause and waste of time. A ASM from the other Troop who is a real geek had the most complicated chart I ever seen in my life. -Which didn't work!! My deal with the Scouts was that after Breakfast and Flag , they were free to go and do what ever they wanted. I informed them that they hadn't paid all that money to hang out at our camp site, once gone I didn't want to see them until it was time for supper. If they wanted to work on MB's that was fine, in fact they had no real ties. I did get a little worried that some were spending too much time patch trading and the PLC with a very big nudge from me did ask that we have two days when no one would go out just to trade patches.(By which time most of the Scouts had run out of patches to trade anyway!) The other thing was just seeing the number of Scouts, arriving at the shows looking over a sea of Scouts all in uniform; I think made them see that they did belong to something far bigger than they had thought. Some other things that I thought were funny: Blaine gave up his hair-gel after 3 days. The girl scouts from Poland were not impressed by the little Scouts who had drenched themselves in Axe after shave. Sharing clothes, socks and underwear with your tent mate was accepted as just being normal, no matter what the difference in size. Inviting people to join in something silly was a lot of fun, the more important the person the more funny it seemed. (We had the Scout Commissioner for England and Scotland join in the Duck Dance) Josh was going to talk with his Spanish teacher about the Scouts from Mexico not understanding his Spanish. A few of our Scouts wondered what the Scouts from Scotland were wearing under their kilts? But were too shy to ask. After the heavy rain in 2001 our Scouts named the lakes in our camp-site after the leaders. - I kinda liked having a Lake Eamonn. I hope more than anything that all the Scouts seen that just about anything can be fun. Even on the hike to the show that was canceled in 2005 our guys were busy singing silly songs and yells. A couple of the Scouts told me I was "Cool" as I didn't yell as much as their leaders at home. A few of the Scouts I had in 2001 came back in 2005. One Lad who went on to serve as NE-Region OA Chief served as my #3 ASM. OJ served as a youth staff member where he met our pal Hops. A good many of the Scouts attended the Hindu service and thought it was cool. I think the Jamboree should be the model for all Council ran Summer Camps and don't understand why it isn't. Ea.

A month ago yesterday, HWMBO was dusting my desk. (It needed it!) She hit something on my computer keyboard and the computer went bad. I bought the computer from a local little store in town. In part because I want to support the small Mom and Pop stores and in part because a few years back Best Buy gave me a real hard time replacing OJ'S Lap Top even though I'd paid $300 for an extended warranty. This puts Best Buy on my list. First thing Monday I had OJ run the computer to the store. The owner informed him it would be ready tomorrow. I called and it wasn't ready. I called the next day and was told it would be ready on Saturday. I forgot that they closed at 1300 on Saturdays. I called on Monday and the store owner's mother said he was sick. I visited the store last Monday and was told that I needed a new motherboard, which was coming in. I called Friday and the Mother of the owner said he was out on a house call and that he'd call me back. - He didn't. I called today and was informed that the motherboard was in and my computer would be ready late tomorrow or early on Wednesday. If the guy had just said "Hey I don't know when I'll have it fixed, it might take a month!" I might not have been happy. But to tell me it was going to be ready tomorrow and then take over a month!! I'm now peeved. Ea.

I really must be getting old!! Up until just recently I had never run into the term Helicopter parents. Lord knows I don't have all the answers and have been known to mess up. But I really never have ran into problems with parents. Please don't think I'm on any sort of an ego trip. Really I'm not! But I think the reasons for this might be: Parents know that I do care about the kids placed in my charge. The kids know that I care. While maybe at times I have been guilty of having favorites? I do try and be fair. Parents and Scouts know that I can be trusted. I really do go out of my way to establish open communication between myself the Scouts and the parents. I don't rely on written communication, I like meeting people face to face or talking with them on the phone. I tend too make Scouting Families an extension of my own family. I get to know them well and they get to know me and mine. I make a point of visiting the home of every Scout and meeting his /her family. The parents and the Scouts think that I know what I'm doing and I'm honest about telling them when I don't know! While they know I think that Scouts and Scouting should be a safe haven, we all know and accept that there is and are risks involved. When and if need be I'm really OK with things being "My Way Or The Highway"! As a rule the "My Way" thing is the BSA way. I'm not known for ever suffering in silence. If a Scout is being a little toad, I have no problem telling him or her and if asked will tell the parents the same thing. (Sometimes I don't wait to be asked!) I let it be known that I'm the "Go to Guy" if you have a problem? See me. To this end I do quickly return emails and phone calls and deal with problems ASAP before they start to fester. I'm OK with telling parents that their son or daughter can do something which they think maybe he or she can't do as long as I believe it to be true. This works both ways if I believe that a kid can't do something, I'll let them know. If this gets in the way of them doing something. So be it! I do admit it when I'm wrong or do mess up and am willing to face the consequences and say I'm sorry. I go out of my way to let everyone know that what we are doing is fun. Parents know how much I enjoy their kids and how much I appreciate the time we spend together. I do respect the wishes of every kids parents, even when I disagree with them. Most times when I tell the parents why, I'm disagreeing with them they do tend to come around and see things from my point of view.But I never ever forget that this kid isn't my kid and when all is said and done if a Parents isn't happy with something and says no. No is the final word. I don't have much time for people who want to sit on the sidelines and watch. I will find everyone something that needs done. So far for the past 20 + years this seems to have worked for me and I have not had any problems with Helicopter parents. Eamonn. (Maybe we need a heading Working with Parents?)

"This was another great team building time that has gone to the wayside" While I tend to agree with what you say. I do however think it fell by the wayside because we allowed it too! Ea.

"a plan to incorporate many of the T-2-1 requirements into the 5 mile hike" cheffy, I think maybe someone is trying to Flash Fry when they should be thinking slow cooking. As I look out my french doors I see Spring has just started. Yesterday I wasn't counting but I seen at least 11 different species of birds when I went on our big long walk. The groundhogs are back in full force. There is evidence of deer. The den where the red fox was is now empty. While Ollie was "Bird Watching" a turkey-hawk flew down out of no where and took out a dove. I stood by in total awe. I noticed that the poison ivy is coming back around the base of the big Toby tree. The wild daffodils are about ready to bloom. Something has dammed up the small creek that runs through the back of the property.- I'm not sure what? The robins are out and the males seem very protective of the areas that they have marked off as being theirs. A few snow geese flew over honking away, but still in the flying V formation. A few crows were up in the sky giving another hawk a hard time. I spent a few minutes wondering if the sounds of all the birds as really singing or was just them making noise? -But after the dead silence of winter I was just overjoyed to hear it return. A little later I was worried that one of the dogs might have tangled with a skunk, the smell of skunk spray was in the air. Thankfully they hadn't. I looked at the limbs of a tree that had been broken off a few weeks back in a nasty wind storm and was amazed to see that even though it was no longer attached to the tree it was still in bud. On the way home Rory spotted a small rabbit and gave chase, the rabbit was a lot faster than Rory. His ego was hurt. In the next few weeks the tress will have all their leaves, seeing the birds will be a lot harder, but watching mothers search for food and return to the nests will occupy me for a while. I'm hoping that the Ring neck pheasants will return. I'm unable to see what has become of the big owl. I'm wondering if Rory will be able to catch another crayfish this year? It looks like there will be a good crop of frogs, from what I see in the pool by the bridge. I seem to be missing a deer,there was 3 but I noticed the other night that only the two does were out. I'm also missing a wood-pecker. I haven't heard him pecking, but maybe he is waiting till the bugs come back? Some of the trees still have nests left over from last year. I wondered do birds build nests before the leaves return or not? I looked in one empty nest and seen it was full of fur that must have been out there after I'd brushed the dogs. Kinda gives new meaning to recycling! It wasn't that warm, the sky was almost clear with only a few high Cirrus clouds. I thought back to how wonderful the clouds were in New Mexico when we were at Philmont. I remembered how cloud recognition was a Scout Standard requirement when I was a leader in the UK and how the Scouts struggled with the Latin names. I'd seen something on the early show that struck me as fun, someone was singing Amazing Grace to different tunes. The dogs looked at me as if I was nuts as I tried to sing Amazing Grace to the theme song from Gilligan's Island! I have trained the dogs to come to Black Velvet Band, they were happier when I whistled that. These Scouts have lots of time to reach First Class. First Class Scout is the key that opens the door to new challenges and more excitement's but when we rush to "Git er done" We end up short changing the Scouts. These Lads have the entire summer and a good part of next summer if you want to do this in about 18 months. It's not a race. KISMIF. Ea.

Green Jello? You are originally from Chicago? You might get away with it on March 17th. Eamonn

NancyB Please forgive me I got the idea that you were more deeply involved in the workings of how things are than maybe you are. I really don't want to get into what seems to be an on going situation between you and the SM. Only to say that if I was as unhappy with the SM as you seem to be, I'd have got my kid out of that Troop PDQ. The National Scout Jamboree is held normally every four years. The last one was back in 2005. The extra year was added so as the Jamboree would be held in the same year as the 100 year celebration. The planning for the event starts almost as soon as the current event ends. Councils can apply for as many Troops as they think they can fill. As a rule they don't get as many as they might like. The Council I serve isn't very big. We have four Districts and about 95 Troops. In the past we have sent two Troops. (We are sending 3 in 2010) Each Troop has a SM and 3 ASM's. As you can imagine, as a rule there are far more adults applying to attend adult leaders then there are openings. The Council I serve has a Jamboree Committee, who selects the people who will serve. This Committee takes this very seriously. They understand that being responsible for 40 Scouts at the Jamboree can be very stressful. Just traveling with a bus full of Scouts and not losing a couple can be a big stress. They understand that the Scouts are going to be very hot, very tired and that before the trip home some of the boys and leaders will be "Scouted Out" With this in mind when the committee goes about selecting a SM they look for someone who really is able to get along well with the Scouts, is a good communicate well with the parents of the Scouts and put them at ease before the event and as a rule is very experienced. (Having been a Jamboree SM twice I know!!) Are you sure that the SM that you are having issues with is the Council Jamboree Scoutmaster? Remember that from the entire Council only maybe two or three adults will be selected. To be very honest. I'd be very surprised that any Council would select an adult who would have a big dark cloud like the one you describe hanging over him. I'm not saying it can't happen or couldn't happen, but in a small rural Council??? I'd be very surprised. Eamonn.

To the best of my knowledge the BSA Policy on Flammable Liquids has been around for a fair amount of time. I'm thinking over ten years? Section 7 of the G2SS - Chemical Fuels Knowledgeable adult supervision must be provided when Scouts are involved in the storage of chemical fuels, the handling of chemical fuels in the filling of stoves or lanterns, or the lighting of chemical fuels. The use of liquid fuels for starting any type of fire is prohibited. I think we all know that adult supervision isn't always going to there when Scouts are out hiking and using different types of stoves. So training and teaching safety as RememberSchiff posted does seem to be the best way. Eamonn

"How do I find a troop for my son to go to Jamboree?" As you know Jamboree Troops are in fact Provisional Troops set up by the Council. If you are un-happy with the leadership selected by your Council? You might want to see how many Troops the Council is sending and if there is an opening for your son in one with leaders that you approve of. You might want to think about moving your son to another Troop in another Council. Have to admit that at this late date when Troops have been filled for sometime, finding a spot might prove to be very hard. Of course with the way things are with people losing jobs there is a chance that there will be some Scouts who may have to cancel. Eamonn.

You are a very lucky fellow! I do at times wish that my son was just starting out in Cub Scouting! He is going to be 21 in a few months time! Someone a lot wiser than I said that when you have a son. For the first 12 -14 years it kinda like having a dog. He looks at you with loving, adoring eyes, he obeys you and wants to please you. But sometime around the age of 12 -14. He turns into a cat. He only is around when he wants fed. You ask him to do anything and he looks at you as if you are nuts and for some of the time he hates getting wet! This wise person says that at about 25 years of age he turns back into being like a dog. Cub Scouts are just so much fun. -Enjoy it. (All too soon they will all turn into cats!) Welcome. Eamonn. (Please don't take this to seriously!)

Hi and Welcome. Thanks for turning off the Caps!! I'm not sure what sort of help you need? I used to X the box that reads "Do you wish to be notified via email when there is a reply to this thread" But I don't any more. A couple of times it went crazy!! I ended up with 200 emails all because one member (Hi Dave Steele) had replied. Just recently someone brought up a very old thread (From about five years back.) Again I started getting all the emails. I found the best thing to do is just visit, log in and participate in the threads that interest you. If you need any more help? Feel free to click on the "Send Private Message" And I'll be more than glad to try and help. Eamonn.

Making the Patrol Method work with a small Troop can be a real challenge, making it work with a brand new Troop is even more so. I kinda think you already know where you fit in as a U/C. Still maybe it's worth mentioning that you are not the SM and he or she is the person in charge. Your time might be better spent working with the adults ensuring that they understand that the Troop should make plans to be around long after they and their son's have moved on. I think if I were the SM of this Troop. I would not have an SPL, I'd go with each Scout serving as PL for six weeks. Once everyone had served I'd then hold an election with the Scouts electing a SPL and a PL. Hopefully by the time next year rolls around the Troop would be ready for a NSP, again with each of the new Scouts serving a term of PL and again holding another election. Of course recruitment and retention would be a big focus for all involved. Eamonn.

What a really tragic story. My heart goes out to all the boys and the families that were touched by this. The heading that you posted: "Teach Safety. " I think covers what needs to be said. For my part I will print out the news clipping and ask our Skipper to share it with all the Sea Scouts. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Eamonn.

No I have never lived in an area like Basementdweller describes. As a kid growing up in London. I lived in a very Irish neighborhood. Everyone seemed to know everyone, we all seemed to go to the same church, us kids went to the local RC schools and our Dads went for pint in the local pubs which were ran by people from Ireland. I think I was about 22 years old before I knew that everyone wasn't Irish and that not everyone was Roman Catholic. As kids we knew that if we did something out of line, that the local nosy neighbors would turn us in to our parents. Strangely the area (Fulham) was known as a high crime area! It seems that there was a lot of organized crime, mainly dealing with stealing works of art. When I became a Scout Leader the Father of two of the Scouts was a local criminal, known for fencing stolen goods. His two boys were really super kids and I never asked if the case of whiskey that he gave me every Christmas had fallen off the back of a lorry! Where I live now is just great!! I really love it. (Apart from the cold winters!) We have very little crime, the people are nice and seem to want to go out of their way to want to help each other. Sure the mode of transportation for most of the guys does seem to be a old very battered pick up truck with a gun rack in the back window. The big fund raiser for most of the local volunteer fire men seems to be a gun bash. I recently bought a ticket and ended up winning a gun. As I don't have any need for one I donated it back to the firemen. Right now with all the groundhogs making holes in my yard, I'm starting to wish I'd kept it. But I can hear HWMBO taking a line from the movie A Christmas Story "You'll shoot your eye out"! I do worry a little that maybe living where we do might be a little too safe!! I wonder what will happen to OJ should he ever move to a not so safe place? We do still seem to have a very strong sense of community. This year the town opened the new library, with a great deal of money donated and raised by local people. One thing that has always amazed me it that for a small town of less then 5,000 we have 13 churches. I'm not sure if that means we are good or really bad? Eamonn.

I also know that you make outstanding Apricot Jam from your own trees! Ea.

I'm very much a people person. I like people. Strange thing is that I don't meet that many people I don't like. When you consider that I spend my working hours surrounded by convicted criminals, that's kinda funny.People ask me what is it like working with these people? I tell them it's like working with a Pitt Bull. (I should add that I have never owned a Pitt Bull and I'm sure given a lot of love and a good home Pitt Bulls can be nice dogs.) You can get to know these guys and get to like them, but the strange thing is that you can never really trust them. This took a lot of getting used too for me. I was in the bathroom at home shaving the other night, the TV was on in the bedroom Lies a new show on Fox was on. I have not seen it. I caught one guy saying to someone: "How many people do you really trust?" The person, a female replied "Ten" The guy said "When you get to my age that goes down to three." I working on my list to see how many people I really trust. This forum is a strange place. Over the years, from things people have posted I know a little about a fair number of the "Regulars". I have only met about 3 people who post here. I have at times imagined what some people look like. (I think OGE has a beard! I don't know why. I do know if I needed an X-Ray, I'd ask his advise.) I don't very many people here by anything other than the name that they post. Still when I posted that HWMBO was ill, I was deeply touched by the prayers and kind thoughts that were offered. I missed FScouter while he was away, I was sad when I found out he wasn't well and happy when I found out he was doing better. I don't always agree with some people. I admit to enjoy sparing with a few. Not that, that makes them wrong or me right. Every now and then I look at the list of new members. Kinda sad that so few stick around. It strikes me as being strange that we have a community of people who share so much with each other, when we don't even know each others names. What we do know is for the most part we do share a love of kids and want to see the next generation do well. Eamonn

Our home computer is in the shop. - The guy tells me I need a new motherboard. I think it must have got held up in the Saint Patrick's Day celebrations in Ireland. I'm using a laptop which for some reason isn't allowing me to use Outlook Express, where I read most of my emails. I missed the inappropriate pots. On the topic of free speech. I have owned and operated a couple of bars over the years. People came in to relax and have a good time. There were times when topics were discussed and people disagreed.People were of course free to voice their opinion. Their opinion might not and very often didn't agree with mine. -If I had an opinion on what was being discussed. That was fine and dandy with me. But when they started using bad language. That wasn't fine and they were asked to leave. Here in the forum we have at the bottom of the page posted: "This is a private community provided by SCOUTER Network and reserved for Scouting related discussions." As I say I didn't see what was posted. But by what I'm reading, I kinda think it didn't fall into or under a "Scouting related discussion" Whoever posted whatever was posted?? Has every right to post whatever it was. -Only he isn't free to do it here. Having not seen it. I'm not sure where it would be OK to post? But if he really wants to say or share it, I'm sure he can find a more suitable place. I'm not saying that this person isn't free to say whatever he likes. I'm just saying that he isn't free to say it here. Eamonn.

I posted in the other thread that Troops in the area where I live don't allow Patrol Camping. I'm not sure why? I do think that this is a shame. As a Scout, I camped with the Patrol I was in a lot (Go Kestrels) and as PL, I was happy to get away from the beady eye of our Scout Leader. I think it's fair to say that maybe a lot of the things we did and didn't do was because we were free from the adults. Yes we packed some dirty stuff in the Patrol box and yes the QM gave us a hard time when he seen it and made us re-do it. However looking back I now see that these trips did more to teach us about the meaning of the Oath and Law (Scout Promise and Scout Law) than just about anything else. To this day I firmly believe that if you want to teach a kid the real meaning of the Oath and Law you have to allow him the space to live it. If you want a Lad to learn how to be trusted you need to place him in a situation of trust. If you want him to learn how to be helpful. - Place him in a situation where he can help and so on. Will the Scouts always get it right? No! Of course they won't! (Just like me they will try to get away with some stuff and maybe they will pack some dirty Billy-cans in the Patrol box!) But if we are going to try and get young people to learn how to make ethical choices? I can't think of a better way then allowing them to camp for a weekend alone away from the adults. Eamonn.

I'm happy to wait till I see this change (If there is a change?) in black and white. A couple of thoughts. In the District I serve and have served for a little while! To the best of my knowledge no Patrol has ever gone away camping without an adult getting in the way. So the change isn't going to make much difference to them. I'm not an attorney and maybe not that bright? I do know what I think is right and what I think is wrong. I agree what any group of Lads wants to do "Outside of Scouting" is outside of Scouting and would hope that it remains that way! (I smoked my first cigarette with a group of other Lads from the Troop I was in when I was a Lad. I don't think anyone would go so far as to say that just because we were Scouts that this could in any way be seen as a Troop activity.) However for me I'm with SR540Beaver. While it's OK for a group to make their own plans. I would want to distance myself from them, if it was me wearing my BSA hat. If when OJ was younger he'd wanted to go hunting, with his pals. That would be one thing. But I'm not going to announce it at a Troop meeting. It does seem to me that the people who are willing to play by the rules will play this way. While the people who don't -Will not. Each of us decides what rules we will follow and which rules we are happy to let slide. Yes I'm guilty of allowing a group of BSA members who have been out canoing to go for a dip, without following all the stuff that is laid out in the BSA Safe Swim Defense Plan. (Mainly the stuff about the area.) I have also worn my WB beads with a Sea Scout uniform!! I think tour permits are a real waste of time and energy. But ... as my way of driving everyone in the Council Service Center nuts I fill the silly form out anyway. We can now do it on line, but I always fax it. I kinda think the SM who doesn't follow the rules and wants to allow a Patrol to camp is going to ignore the rule. Eamonn