Eamonn

Shying away and not being willing to stand up for and talk about what we as individuals believe in and value is maybe not a good thing. (I'm thinking about as Scouter's) Boring the pants of everyone we might run into or meet is never a good thing. Especially when dealing with kids. Somewhere there has to be a happy medium or "Kid Friendly" way of going about this. The trick is finding it! Some people can do this without any effort, while others have to work at it. I have always found it a little funny when someone that I have known for years lets me know something about them and what they value, which I had no idea of. Just because they didn't choose to "Let it all out"! Doesn't mean that they didn't value whatever it was or that their values have in any way been compromised. Some years back a good pal of mine who was Irish and living in England with her husband was having a visit from her Mother-In-Law. She was visiting from Ireland to see their new house. I met her one Saturday when she was rushing out to buy some religious pictures for their bedroom. She didn't want her Mother-In-Law to visit and not see any of these in the bedroom. Thinking back to when I was a little fellow visiting Ireland, all the bedrooms had religious pictures in them. I don't have any religious pictures in my bedroom. -I don't think this makes me any less of a Roman Catholic. I also don't care if anyone visits and notices that there aren't any. (Not hat we host that many people in our bedroom!) Ea.

Phone Rings. "Hello, this is Eamonn the District Commissioner, I've been going over the charters and see that three boys have been dropped, we are asking everyone who has dropped a Scout what happened?" Mr Scoutmaster "Hi Eamonn, hows it going? Yes we drop three. Mark and his family moved out of the area, Tim said that he just didn't have time, what with his ballet and dance classes and I hadn't seen John for ages, money is tight and we can't afford to keep kids who aren't active on the charter. It's a shame I thought he was going to go all the way. He hasn't been the same kid since he bought his car and got that new girl friend." Parents in our area do pay the membership fee for the first year, after that units pay. Most units don't pay the rechartering fee and the insurance for Scouts that they haven't seen in a while. Once the Scout isn't a member, I think he is no longer active. Could it be that we might be looking at this the wrong way around? Active Equals Registered? Not registered equals no longer active? Eamonn.

Here I go sticking my neck out. I like to think of this thing we call the "Program" as a menu. The menu is what the PLC comes up with. If we are lucky, it will provide what most and maybe if we are really lucky all of the Scouts want. I have made lots of menus. I'll admit that at times I have left off things that I don't like and made room for the things I like. As a Leader I kinda, sorta did the same thing. I kinda sorta pushed the PLC into doing things that I liked or I thought that they needed. (I don't like camping in the winter, so we didn't camp and opted to use cabins or hostels. -I like messing around with rope and pioneering so we did a lot of that kind of thing.) Many of the boys who joined, didn't know any better! To them, what we did was Scouting. Up until a few years back when I planned a menu, I didn't take into account the needs of others, none of this heart healthy diet stuff, no vegetarian dishes. But if someone asked we went out of our way to accommodate them. Our program should do the same thing. We want the program to accommodate the Scout, not the Scout accommodate the program. The first Troop that OJ was in was big into Merit Badges and Merit Badge classes. One Tuesday night (Troop night) he informed me that he wasn't going to Scouts. I was a little surprised as he had rarely missed a meeting. He went on to tell me that the Troop was spending the next three or four weeks working on the Farm Farm Mechanics Badge and he wasn't interested in Farm Mechanics, so he wasn't going! This was the only thing on the "Menu". Should he have been penalized for non attendance? I do think that before a Lad takes on a POR he needs to know what is expected and what is involved. OJ was involved in a lot of after school activities. At one time he was going to run for SPL during the winter. This would have clashed with soccer, chorus and the school play. When he seen that he wasn't going to be able to do the job, he waited till summer. (When he only had track which didn't interfere with Scouts.) I think taking the time to talk to a Lad and listen to him before allowing him to take on a POR, beats the heck out of complaining when he does a poor job. A Eagle Scout BOR done by the District I serve denied a Lad Eagle Scout because they felt he wasn't active. He had fulfilled the requirement of being active in your troop, team, crew, or ship for a period of at least six months after you have achieved the rank of Life Scout, but soon after had enrolled in a EMT course which fell on the same night as the Troop Meeting night. Which meant that he had not attended a meeting in some time. Putting aside the fact that he had already met the requirement! To my way of thinking, I could and can see that if he held certain POR's he would have let the Troop /Patrol down and not lived up to some parts of the Scout Law, but there are some POR that maybe he could have done and met the expectations of the job. Is attending a EMT course a good reason to miss Troop meetings? I think so. At the end of the day I think it comes down to knowing the individual Scout. If he isn't attending? Find out why. If there is a problem? Fix it. There is a big difference between "I'd sooner stay home and watch TV" and " I'm learning ...." One size doesn't fit all. The program has to meet the needs of the Scout. If he has no need for the program? Then he isn't active. Eamonn.

One of the reasons I enjoy spending time with the adults in Scouting is because I like to believe that they share much the same values as I do. There are times when I visit this forum, when I wonder if we are so busy worrying about what I see as the small stuff; that I'm left wondering if we have lost sight of what we really are in business for. Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the time I spend in this organization, I have a great time and have maybe more fun than is good for one person. Many if not most of my close friends are or were involved in Scouts and Scouting. So maybe for me the fun comes before the values? I like to think that I know what most of my short-comings are and openly admit them. While at times I'm aware that I can be narrow minded and mule headed, I do try and allow and make room for the fact that not everyone has their values in the same order as I do. I have friends in Scouting who see what they do with the organization as some kind of a mission and see what they do as doing God's work. For them "Duty to God" has a different meaning than it has for me. That doesn't make them wrong or me right. -We just have our values in a different order. I'm very happy with my relationship with my God and am happy to in my own way keep it to myself. I could go on to talk about the people who put physical fitness as their number one, or being kind as their number one. As for what have I done to voice my values? We do spent a fair amount of time talking about values in some of the new training's and I have been involved in these, sometimes this can lead to some lively conversation! I enjoy the talks I have and have had with Scouts when the time has been right. I'm thinking of when we have been stuck in the van/car for a long time and it just seems to happen or when the embers of the camp fire and the mood is just right. I do try to be as honest as I can with the Scouts I'm with! (No I'm not going to put down people who maybe I'm not that keen on!!) I would hope that my actions show that I'm trying to live by the oath and law and the example I set is a good one? Sadly most times when the value thing comes up is when someone has failed to live up to the oath and law and I'm guilty of bashing them over the head with it like some kind of a stick. " You didn't do this so you are letting the side down, do you think that this is friendly, loyal, trustworthy, kind" Sad thing is I know when I do this especially to a youth that they are so upset about being bashed, that it goes in one ear out out the other! For me Scouts and Scouting is very much about relationships. I'm happy to share myself, faults and all with others. I let the people I know and work with and for get to know me and I try to get to know them and understand them. My big hope is that they know that I care. I care about them as an individual, a Scout/ Scouter or just as a person. We have a great little Lad in the Ship. A kid with a wonderful smile. I caught him messing around while one of the other Sea Scouts was trying to teach him knots. He was messing around because he wasn't very good at the knots. Not in a mean way I called him a Lazy Little Toad. Yesterday I was walking the dogs when a car pulled up. The Lad and his Dad got out. After nearly being licked to death by Rory. The Lad said "Hey Ea, I can tie twenty knots in under three minutes" I told him that this was great and I was proud of him. He smiled and asked "Does this mean that I'm not a lazy little toad?" We both laughed. I really was proud of him, I knew how hard it was for him. My big hope is that he knows how proud of him I am? Eamonn.

The Council I'm with does not have any sort of a stand on these letters. Very few Scouts bother with them. Those that do tend to ask the person, in person and whoever that might be tends to write the letter and give it to the Scout. Most often asking "Is that OK?" I like to think that I know the Scouts that I serve. I don't think that I could get blindsided? By the time a Lad has made his way to Eagle, I would hope that I'd know a lot about him. If I as a Skipper thought that he wasn't a good candidate? He and I would have had a little chat and we would be working on plan B. Eamonn.

"Which part do you disagree with? Asking the individual parents who should be doing it to do their part? This wasn't what you posted! You posted: " you call a meeting of the parents. You tell them, "We have to have a Den Leader for this den. I've asked you all to do it but no one was willing. I'm going to leave for 15 minutes. When I come back I need to know that either you've decided to not have this den at all and that your sons will be leaving our pack, or you will have worked out who the DL and ADL will be next year. Thank you." I don't see this as "Asking the individual parents" I see it as some kind of a press-gang! Do you really expect people who have been recruited this way to do a good job? Is this any way to go about selecting quality leaders? I for one am not sure that I'd want someone who was brought in using these strong armed tactics to look after my child. "Expecting the parents who should be doing it to come up with a solution?" I must have missed out on something, somewhere? Where is it laid down that parents should come up with a solution? Surely this is the job of he Pack Management Committee? " Being realistic that if none of the parents who should be doing it care enough to do their part that there is not reason to have the den in the first place?" Who ever said that they should be doing it? What do we know about these parents? How many are single parents? Worse still how many might have reasons for not being able or allowed to work with children? How many work shift work? Truth is that we don't know. HWMBO is a nice person, but she knows that she isn't cut out to work with other peoples children. In fact she has said that if she had to that a few of them would never make home after a Den meeting! Do you really want to press gang her into being a leader? "This doesn't seem to be the case where there is no one qualified to lead but were those who are qualified are unwilling to lead. It can be very easy for parents to hope that someone else will step up and take on the responsibility, but at some point they need to understand that they need to do it." I kinda got a little lost on this part! But once again you are assuming that they are unwilling. The idea that any-one with a warm body is capable and able to look after our children is just wrong. We do better when we don't just recruit people to fill spots but take the time to select the right person for the spot. Some years back, after a School Sign-up. A parent had offered to sign up as a Den Leader. I was given the application form. (I was the CM) I mentioned this to HWMBO. She said that she thought that I'd better check this Lady out. I may not be the sharpest pencil in the box? But I kinda knew that she knew something that she couldn't tell me. (God Bless HIPPA! -HWMBO works in the local ER.) I called the Pack Committee Chairperson, explained that I had this application, but felt a little uneasy about it. She said that she would look into it, I faxed her the application. Within the hour she called me back, saying that she had made a few phone calls.(We live in a small town) Most of the people she had talked with said that this Lady was a nut! A couple had said that she was OK as long as he was on her meds!! I'm not sure I'd want to be a parent left in a room for 15 minutes with her? Let alone have her take care of my child. Eamonn.

Maybe I should add that in our Council ESBOR's are done by the District, with a Committee Member from the Scout's troop in attendance. I know that OJ was very selective when it came to asking for these references. For some reason he didn't like our Parish Priest, so he asked the Priest who served as Assistant Lodge Adviser for a letter. They knew each other well. As chance would have it when the time came for the Priests to move, this Priest became our new Parish Priest! He also asked for a letter from his favorite teacher. As at one time he had been suspended from school, for taking a small pocket knife to school. (He'd won the knife at an OA pie eating contest and forgot to take it out of his jacket!) Eamonn.

Hi palopinto and Welcome. jet526, I hate to be disagreeable, but if what you suggest ever becomes the way that we select the people we trust to look after and care for our children? I hope that we cease to exist! I can't think of a worse way of going about it. palopinto, The good thing is that you know that there is a problem. The bad thing was that a Den of 19 was ever allowed to form. This can not be good for the Scouts in the Den. In the short term I think I would see if there is any way that the ACM could take over half of the Den (A Pack doesn't need a ACM on the charter.) You might want to contact the District Membership Committee and see if they can help? While they don't have a list of people chomping at the bit, waiting to be asked to become leaders, they should be able to help set you up with the correct way of selecting quality leaders. You might want to take a look at: http://old.scouting.org/commissioners/resources/13-500.pdf Your Unit Commissioner or District Commissioner should also be able to help. I think once the District becomes aware that a Pack of 60 is soon going to be a Pack of only 40? They will step into high gear! Eamonn.

Life isn't this hard!! If HWMBO who is no longer a member of the BSA arrived out of the blue without an invitation to an event /camp out, I feel sure that someone would ask "What are you doing here?" If she had no good reason for being there? I kinda think anyone in their right mind would send her packing! As we are seeing from what has been posted the list of people who are not involved as parents or unit leaders could go on and on.Making a guideline really hard to write. We don't need these guidelines common sense will do a much better job. Eamonn.

"Yah, this happens sometimes." ?? Sorry Beav, I've been around for a while and it has never happened in the District I serve. This might be due to the fact that the letters do not go to anyone on the BOR, they are requested by the Scout and sent to the Scout who brings them with him when he attends the BOR. (Most times they are addressed to Whom it may concern.) I'm sure if I were the Scout and received a bad letter, that I wouldn't bring it with me and would remove that name from the form. We have had people who when they know that a Lad is going for an ESBOR who will contact the board and let it be known that they feel he isn't worthy of the Eagle Scout rank. This makes life hard for the board as they are faced with a Lad who has been approved by his SM and has met all the requirements (Other than the ESBOR) But the board has this information saying he is not up to snuff. All to often the person contacting the board is going back into ancient history and is recalling past sins. Or this person has some kind of ax to grind with the Scout and maybe his family. A few years back a Lad came up for a BOR and his Ex-Scoutmaster let it be known that he didn't think the Lad was worthy of Eagle Scout rank. It turned out that the Lad's mother had been a member of the Troops committee. She and the SM had crossed swords resulting in the Lad transferring to another Troop. The mother was fairly well known for being a real right pain, who seemed to think that her kid could do no wrong, she had served on the school board and caused a bit of a stir there and was a regular letter writer in the local newspaper. But as far as I could see other than having the misfortune of having this person for a mother, the Lad had done nothing to disqualify him from becoming an Eagle Scout. To be very honest when a Scout does bring the letters to a board that I'm on, I do read them but don't put much store into them. They are all from people that were hand-picked by the Scout (Or his family.). They all say much the same thing, maybe some are more glowing than others? Eamonn.

I know, I know that this is really up to the Scout and his family. But all too often this just don't work out that way. Over time many Troops seem to take over just about everything and the COH becomes something that is done the way it is, because this is the way it always has been done. The Troop OJ was in, had fallen into this type of a ceremony and it just wasn't that good. He wanted to do his own thing, I think because the apple didn't fall that far from the tree. His SM was a little put out when OJ told him what his part in the ceremony was going to be. I was happy about not having to listen to the same old stuff and that horrible poem about some silly bush by the side of the road. We did go a little over the top when it came to the "Celebration". This was a family decision. We had waited for a long time because HWMBO was undergoing chemo and then we waited till her hair had come back. OJ was fine with the wait and really enjoyed having my relative fly in from different parts of the world. Friends of mine who work with food got together and did a wonderful job with the food. It was more like a wedding reception than an Eagle Scout COH. However when I think of all the ESCOH that I have attended, by far the one that comes to mind as being the best, was one held in an LDS church, and after a outstanding heartfelt ceremony they served cookies and punch. I don't think OJ would have wanted to share his day with others, I know that we s a family enjoyed what we ended up with. Eamonn.

I'm a little fellow. I have never been near a gym (Other than the gyms we had at school. We had five!! Still I remember a report card that came home where the comment from my Gym Master was "Who is he?") Other than a bad back, I'm not in bad shape. I think this is due to my taking the dogs out everyday. I look at the inmates in the correctional facility, thee guys have little else to do but pass their time body building. I have watched some inmates work out and I'm amazed. These guys who may never have done a days work in their entire life, who moan and groan when asked to do anything spend hour after hour doing push-up, pull-ups and that sort of thing. I think if someone were to say that this sort of thing was no longer allowed thy would see it as a punishment. I love to read, OJ hates to read; asking him to read a book would be his idea of being punished. I remember a play that was on the BBC, about two guys, one loved classical music and the other loved rock music, both ended up in Hell, where they were forced to listen to the others music for all of eternity. Punishment is how the person who is being punished sees it. We are in an organization that prides itself on teaching young people how to make ethical choices. I see this as them wanting to do the right thing because it's the right thing. I don't see it as doing the right thing because if I don't there is going to be a consequence -In this case push-ups! I'm with Barry on us giving the youth we serve the freedom that maybe they don't get else-where. For us to get to where we want to be we have to give the youth enough space to be able to make the choice. If we want them to be trusted we need to place them in a position of trust, if we want them to be loyal we place them in that sort of setting, at the same time we don't build up sets of consequences for when they fail. To do so limits their choice and they could end up just doing what is needed so as to avoid the consequence. I think it's sad that so many of the adults who serve the youth fail to understand this. I would hope that no adult would allow a youth member to impose a punishment on another youth member. This is just not a good idea and could open a can of worms that might have dire consequences. I'm thinking along the lines of Lord of the flies. Eamonn

"Does anyone know if there is a specific rule for Adult participation in a Pack and/or Den activity if their child is not present at the event? " The BSA does not have any specific rule. " We are working on some guidelines for the Pack next year and this situation has come up several times." I'm not a great fan of these sort of guidelines. Most times they are poorly written and again most times are not worth the paper they are written on. If the reason for doing this is just because there is a need to keep one person away? It's not worth the effort. - Far better to just tell that person that they are not welcome and are not invited. We do as others have posted have the youth protection guidelines and many CO's have things in place which only allow people that have met what they require (FBI and State Checks and or training's offered by the organization) I find it a little hard to believe that anyone with no connection to a unit would just pop-up or choose to attend an event without some sort of invitation? If this happened at an event or meeting I was in charge of, I really would have no problem asking them why they were there? If there wasn't a good reason? I'd just ask them to leave! (Unit and BSA guidelines don't mean anything to people who are not members of the unit.) I can think of reasons why a person who isn't an active parent of a child in the unit or a registered leader might be invited. I'm thinking of people with maybe a special skill or who has been asked to do a specific job. A poorly worded rule might end up excluding these people, which might not be a good thing and allowing them to attend makes the rule worthless. If I was tasked with having to write a guideline that deals with this. I'd look at something very simple along the lines of "Only people invited by the event organizer may attend Pack events." I would not use the word parent as even the BSA has a hard time defining this. (Kids don't always live with parents, single parents might opt to send an uncle or aunt along with the child. The list of who might be sent with a child is almost endless.) But really I don't need a rule or a guideline to tell anyone who isn't supposed to be with the unit or who hasn't been invited that they are not welcome and I fail to see what good a rule or a guideline would do? Eamonn.

Of course there are times when even the best trainers get things wrong! (I don't think that is the case here!) Sometimes the myth has been around for so long and passed on and around that it just becomes accepted. There are some who refuse to utter the "I really don't know, but I'll try and find out for you".I'm not sure if it's an ego thing or not? I don't know very much about Varsity Scouts. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a Varsity Squad? In the Council I serve. The Course I was SM for was a "Cluster Course". The Staff came from five different Councils, none of these had any Varsity Scouts. Some of the participants wanted to know more about Varsity Scouts. So I had the National Office send me all the free stuff that they had. I passed this out to every participant. When I read the course evaluation forms completed by the participants, a number of them were unhappy that the Staff and myself were not more knowledgeable about this subject. Strange thing is that none of them were involved in Varsity Scouting and now seven years later there still isn't any Varsity Scouts in any of the Councils. Sometimes you just can't win! Eamonn.

I have not as yet seen the TV, only read the reports on line and have had people tell me. Pittsburgh Police were called to a domestic disturbance. Three were killed and the reports say that others were wounded. My heart goes out to the families of these officers. I do ask that we all offer a prayer or a kind thought for those who now grieve. As I say I don't know all the details. It is just so very sad. Eamonn.

Just wondering if the adults who have taken the 21st Century course found the daily patrol self-assessments worth while? Have you found a use for this in what you do with your unit/district/ council? Eamonn.

I think the Beatles were number one in the UK when I joined Wolf Cubs, can't remember if it was Love me do? Or I want to hold your hand? Anyway!! Have been "In" Since then, sometimes more active than at other times. Ea. (Boy do I feel old!)

Kudu I copied it word for word. - Honest!! As I posted each Patrol gets a new P/L each day. The idea is that everyone gets to take a turn. This isn't unlike any-other course I have ever taken taken (Old - New -BSA -UK -Boy Scout). We might disagree on the wording of the job description and the wording. I kinda think that when push comes to pull the role of a WB course P/L hasn't changed that much since I took my first course (Please don't tell anyone, but that was over 30 years ago!!) At Gilwell Park in England. I really can't think why, anyone would want to add the line about a SPL and this whim thing? It just seems a little silly. Wood Badge Patrols are really hard to put together. (Talking as an Ex-Course Director.) I tried really hard to make them as even as I could, mixing the newer people with the more experienced. But just like many of the courses I have staffed or participated in; one patrol seems to never set a foot wrong, while one really has a hard time and seems to always be playing catch-up. Back in 2000 I was a TG for a Beaver Patrol, the only all male Patrol on that course. The guys were so very competitive and seemed to come together in the first couple of minutes that they left every other Patrol standing. The course was held at Camp Mountain Run. The second weekend (3 days) where the Patrols camp as a Patrol, they far exceeded everyone else in their cooking, camp layout -You name it!! Mean-while there was another Patrol which just struggled the entire time. Of course I put it all down to them having the best Guide!! (Joke) The SM and the SPL felt a little bad that one Patrol seemed to be so far ahead while one was so far behind, but once the Patrols were set and formed there really wasn't much that could be done about it. Same thing goes for the P/L's. Once the Patrol sets the roster of who is going to take which day. It's set and weak or strong that's the P/L for that day. Eamonn.

Not sure in what Book? In my copy of the staff guide A-17 Is " More Thoughtful Category" of the Who Me Game Cards and it has ten questions, none of them make any mention of a SPL or a PL. A -17 in the Administrative Guide is the Course Directors Closeout Report. Again nothing to do with a PL or a SPL. I have never seen or heard of this ""Patrol leaders serve at the whim of the Senior Patrol Leader" As you know the WB SPL is a Staff Member. Normally someone with some WB experiences. The WB Patrol Leader changes everyday. The SPL plays no part in the selection or that sort of thing. On Day One of the course it is highly recommended that the Role and Responsibilities of the Patrol Leader appear in that days edition of the Gilwell Gazette. It reads: * Take a leading role in planning and conducting patrol meetings and activities. *Encourage patrol members to fully participate in the Wood Badge Course and achieve all they can. *Represent the Patrol at the Patrol Leaders Council (PLC) * Set a good example by living the Scout Oath and Law. * Practice using the leadership and team skills being presented during Wood Badge presentations. * Ensure that the daily patrol self-assessments are carried out in a timely, effective manner. * Provide patrol members with the resources and information they need to succeed. * Empower the patrol to become a high-performance team. * See that the patrol is prepared for all course presentations and activities. (Page 30 of the Staff Guide) It makes no mention of the SPL. Or his /her whims!! Eamonn.

If you were given the task of putting together a poll on Scouts and Scouting: 1/ Who would you aim your poll at? (Age group? Member? Non-member? Ex-members -It's your poll - Your choice!) 2/If your poll were to have a central theme what would it be? 3/ Other than the "Normal" everyday questions related to name, age and that sort of thing, list s few of the questions you would ask. Eamonn.

I own several Bodhrans, which I have used occassionaly at campfires. They are a nice size for use at a camp fire and even a idiot like myself can manage them. They aren't cheap I think I paid about $100 for the least expensive one. I know that in the District we have a fair number of boys who are in marching bands. The drums they use belong to the school, so I don't see them allowing them to be used at Scout camps. Eamonn.

Hi, Many of us forum members who have been here for a while are fine and dandy with seeing threads that we may have started or participated in take on a life of their own. I for one don't care if we start talking about one topic and end up?? Lord knows where. I do however think that when someone new to the forum asks a specific question that we do tend to cloud things when we change the subject. I know all to often we might think that the question has been asked and answered and the change is not doing any harm. In many cases it really doesn't do any harm. But maybe it might be better for the person asking if we did just spin-off? I don't think any of the moderators are going to move or change anything! - I know I'm not!! It's just on my part a suggestion. Thanks. Eamonn.

Hi Biscuit, Welcome to the forum. From what you have posted. I'm saddened to hear that something has happened which has made you and your son upset. Not knowing the details,it would be unfair to make any other comments. As others have rightly posted members of the same family can serve in the same unit. At this time I don't know of any ruling that says/states this can't be done. There are however rules about the number of hats (Positions) a person can fill. In this case the SM's wife is allowed to be a ASM or a Committee Chair, but she is not supposed to be both. Sometimes because of lack of qualified people it does happen that someone does fill more than one spot. I don't know how upset you and your son are? Or what you have in mind as a remedy for the situation? Please don't for a minute think I'm choosing sides. - I'm not! But, for what it's worth here's my 2 cents. In most of the units I have had dealings with, which is what I'd say is a lot! The Scoutmaster and the Troop Committee Chairperson are fairly close and work hand in hand. If they didn't? There is a chance that the Troop Committee Chairperson could or might ask the Scoutmaster to step down. This rarely happens unless the Scoutmaster has made a big boo-boo. When I was a Unit Leader 99.9% of the time the Committee and the Chair were willing to go along with just about any recommendation that I made. With this in mind; does it really make any difference if the Chairperson is married to the Scoutmaster or is also an ASM? If you really feel that it does? Your best bet might be to call the Scout Service Center and find out who the Unit Commissioner or the District Commissioner is for your unit and give them a call to discuss this matter. Good Luck to you and your son. Eamonn.

I'm very aware at times that I'm a product of a different time, a different culture and am fast becoming an old stick in the mud. As a kid I think the expectation was that I been seen and not heard. I suspect that Sister Mary Matthew might have been a little happier if maybe she had never seen me? I can still to this day hear my English Master yelling at me "Are they wise words? A they they wise Roman words of wisdom?" When he caught me talking. Of course on the other hand, I see that as a kid, even at an early age I had a lot more freedom to get out and do things without supervision than many of the kids I know to-day seem to have. I can't help wondering if the Camp-staff had been yelling at these kids to not run around and not do what they were doing if the thread might be about Camp-staff Over-step Their Authority? When we were first married we wanted to have four children and would have liked to have had four boy's. Things didn't work out that way and we ended up with just the one. I love him very dearly, but I'm not sure I could have managed three more like him!! In First Grade he had a Nun who phoned me everyday to inform me what sin he had committed that day. A small sin meant 20 minutes on the phone a bigger sin could last as long as 45 minutes. I think because of my early education I still am scared of Nuns! But this one was really getting on my nerves. In the end I informed her that she was looking at this the wrong way. I told her that she was looking at OJ as being a child of God, where as I was looking at him as being a little devil. She stopped calling. When it comes to poor parenting there isn't much we can do but shake our heads and give thanks that our kid isn't one of the kids involved in what's going on and if he is? A quick trip to the bathroom to hide always works. Eamonn.

"Looking at our roster, there is only one other committee member, the COR," ??? I don't understand how this can be? Scoutnet would never allow this charter to go through. Eamonn