MarkS

Eagle92, You're forgetting the important prequisites: In order to earn your first bead, you have to complete the WB six day course. In order to earn your second bead, you have complete your ticket. In order to earn your third bead, you have to deliver the promise and train new leaders (I don't think it matters if they're adult or youth). In order to earn your fourth bead, you have to be a course director. Adults can't take the NYLT course. Youth can't take the WB course. At my NYLT course, a Wood Badger completed his ticket (serving on NYTL staff was his last ticket item) and had his beading ceremony. Five minutes later, he got his third bead for serving on NYLT staff. How weird is that? This isn't about recognition. It's about encouraging more WB trained leaders to deliver the promise (because we all know we learn the most about a topic by teaching it) and inspiring more adults to take the WB course. I mean how hard can it be? The adults serving NYLT aren't going to be very hard to convince about the benefits of taking WB. They're already living the dream, they just haven't taken the class. I think the hard part is finding an adult NYLT staffer that hasn't taken the course. For my NYLT course, there were about 20 adult staffers. Only myself and that one other staffer earned our third bead during the course, the CD earned his fourth bead, and only one adult had not taken WB but he was planning on it by the end of the week. No one else earned a third bead because everyone else already had them. Mark

Eagle92, The intent is to encourage Wood Badge trained adults to serve on NYLT staff and to encourage NYLT adult staff who have not taken Wood Badge to do so. Any adult can earn two, three or four beads with the appropriate training and service. To say that this program favors certain adult leaders over others is inaccurate. The prerequisite for those third and fourth beads is the same for and can be earned by every WB and NYLT staffer. In our council, every adult and youth NYTL staffer earn a staff pin for their NYLT shields. Is that nationally recognized or not? I don't know. If not, maybe it ought to be. If it is, is your problem really then that everyone isn't earning exactly the same recognition? Should they be? I don't think it's necessary nor detrimental to the program. I was a college student. Being a college student in and of itself is not a road block to taking Wood Badge. The financial and time contraints and solutions exist for everyone. It's all about learning and teaching leadership skils. If this program fulfills its intent, more adults and youth are reached and they learn additional skills to help serve their units. One thing our council did this past summer is have some experienced NYLT youth staffers teach some elements at our Wood Badge courses. This was received very favorabily by the Wood Badge participants. The intent was that those participants would take that experience back to their home units and encouraged their youth to take NYLT. No one can pass through life, any more than he can pass through a bit of country, without leaving tracks behind, and those tracks may often be helpful to those coming after him in finding their way. Mark

I took Wood Badge, completed my ticket, and got a couple beads for it. I've taken those lessons learned and used them to serve the youth in my son's unit for the last three plus, going on four years now. This summer I used them to serve the youth in my council by working on the adult staff of an NYLT course. I got a third bead for doing that. I didn't know that was going to happen when I volunteered. I volunteered because I was asked to take over as Scoutmaster of the unit I serve and wanted to know what the course was like so I could better determine if a boy was ready to take it. The course reinforced my Wood Badge training and gave me another opportunity to deliver its promise to the youth, it improved my ability to associate and work with youth, it gave me a great example of how a model troop can be achieved through the youth leadership, it gave me a better picture of what my unit is doing right and not so right. Frankly, I can't think of a better way to put the lessons I learned at Wood Badge to practice than to pass them on to the youth. No. I don't think NYLT dilutes the meaning of the Wood Badge beads. Nope. Not at all.

There's always another unit. Let your feet to the talking and head for greener grass. Scouting is supposed to be an enjoyable activity for the boys and adult leaders alike. Find a unit that has its act together and your sone likes and go for it.

Yeah... there's a lot of useful stuff in the older handbooks... a lot of outdated stuff too. I think it's a good idea to re-evaluate things every now and then and modernize. All change comes with pros and cons and not everyone will agree on which is which. However, if you don't re-evaluate things, scouting or otherwise, you might find the world passed you by while you were drving your horse and buggy to work. ;-)

I think it's safe to say that if the boys in a troop are good friends, they're going to do things together outside of the troop. Some of which they can't do in the troop because of BSA polcies. As long as the unit is not involved in any way, I don't understand how the BSA could get sued over this if someone gets hurt.

I'm only sure about what my council camping dept. head told me. We communicated via email which wasn't ideal for the exchange of information and references we were discussing but he spent a great deal of time making sure he understood my question. In my council, patrol outings without adult leadership do not seem to be extremely popular. Even though he is the camping dept. head and certainly knows his stuff, I got a strong impression that no unit had ever asked him my question before. If someone has a POC within National, maybe they can confirm. Should probably do that before writing letters of complaint.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

In my coucnil, reservations are required in order to have permission to be on council property--even if you're requesting a no cost resource like a campsite for a unit overnight. They want to know who's there and I find nothing wrong with that. However, considering myself to be a conscientious fellow, I called my council camping dept. about how a requirement for two-deep leadership at all activities in the rules and regs on the back of the reservation applies to patrol outings without adult leadership. Well, first I had to convince them that I wasn't talking about youth protection and instead about how patrols are supposed to be able to go on outings without adult leadership per the SM handbook, PL handbook, and G2SS (section on Leadership Requirements for Trips and Outings, item 1). Eventually, they contacted National for clarification and confirmed my understanding of the National policy but they also told me they found out that National is going to change its policy and no longer permit patrol outings without adult leadership. I don't know what the time-table is but I was told the above documents are already being updated. BTW... The final decision from my council was that even until the National policy change takes place, their policy is that patrols that want to conduct an outing on council property must have two-deep adult leadership or they won't approve the reservation. I figured that a council owned property lent itself to being a more secure environment for patrol activities without adult leadership than, say, a state or county park.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Beavah said, "Each thing in its place, in proper measure. We start with da scoutcraft skills primarily (T-2-1) and then incorporate more management and leadership skills as the boys need those." A youth has to be first class and have attended two summer camps before taking NYLT. So there's an expectation of a certain level of proficiency in scoutscarft skills before attending the course. As an example, part of the NYLT curriculum is about understanding how to teach and share these skills to a patrol based on the ability to recognize a patrol's proficiency level. I agree that it takes a balance of proficiency in scoutscraft skills, management, and leadership for an SPL, PL, and other youth leaders to maximize their potential for success. It's not surprising that BSA offers training in all three for both adults leaders who need to train the youth leaders and for youth leaders to supplement the training they've received in their unit... Adults have basic training for their position, outdoor skills training, and Woodbadge. Youth have their T-2-1 programs at summmer camp (with fancy names like Eagle Bound or Voyageur), TLT, and NYLT. All have OJT opportunities created by their unit's outdoor and advancement programs, unit meetings, et al. It's the package that makes the difference, not just one course. I do not agree with the premise of this thread that one needs to choose between Management Style vs. Scoutcraft Style. I choose both.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

If the VP is hiking out of a base camp, they and the necessary number of leaders could leave for the hike about 30 minutes before the other adults wake up. Or the boys could hike at a pace that's uncomfortable for the adults to keep up. They could practice the motto... If you want to stay young, work with the young. If you want to die young, try to keep up with them. Heck... they could make that their patrol cheer. I heard thru my council that National is going to change their policy and prohibit patrols from conducting outings without adult supervision. Times are a changing.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

There are three communication paths. The first is from the SM to the SPL to the PLs to the youth members. The second is between the SM and the CC. The third from the CC to the committe members and parents. Usually, the communication between the SM, CC, and committee members is pretty good no matter what method is used. Usually, announcements in the troop meeting are the best way to get a message to the boys--if they show up. However, you can engrave a message in a granite tablet, throw it through the parents' living room window and it will miraculously land in a black hole under the coffee table never to be heard from again.

Yeah... I looked into the possibility of putting the bug in the ear of our older patrol that, with approval, they could go on outings without adult supervision. I called our council to ask a question about some language on their short-term camping reservation paperwork indicating that at least two adults are required for all activities on council property--including patrol outings. I pressed the issue and they contacted National. Apparently, they found out that National is making a policy change to eliminate adult-free patrol outings. Look for changes in the Scoutmaster Handbook, Patrol Leader Handbook, G2SS, and other literature in the near future. Well, that's what I was told anyway. So if you're an advocate of patrols going on outings without adult supervision, take advantage of it now. Sounds like this privilege is going away.(This message has been edited by MarkS)

I took 21st Century Wood Badge in 2005. While emb021 said the purpose is to learn leadership skills that can be applied to your program, I would add more specifically that the purpose is to pass the leadership skills you learn to the youth you serve. I'm serving on NYLT staff for the first time this summer and have been in training for that. Can't wait to see how things turn out but the experience so far is really illustrating to me what the purpose of Wood Badge really is. (This message has been edited by MarkS)

CQ CQ CQ... Radio di-di-di-dah-di-dah(This message has been edited by MarkS)

Extra $1? Try $2 extra from $2.49 to $4.49... about a 80% markup. BSA supply doesn't understand the 9th point of the Scout Law I think.