Eamonn

Well China's had a butchers, but this frog has got me. Going to wag to the trouble and strife or maybe the dustbin? Eamonn (Think I might start posting in Cockney Slang!) Well mates (China Plate = Mate) Had a look (Butchers Hook = Look) but this road (Frog and toad =road) Going to wag (Chin wag =nag) to the trouble and strife(= wife) or maybe the dustbin(dustbin lid = kid) Ea =Me!

What am I missing? Ea

I think I'm with Lisabob. Some SE's are not the brightest light on the Christmas Tree. Some are lazy little toads. The goals that they set are at times just silly. If the money does come rolling in? It means less work for them. - However to be fair, some are very intelligent and are under pressure from the Board to bring in the dough! It might be that a poor DE has voiced his opinion that going back isn't going to work and he might just be going through the motions to prove to his boss that it really is a waste of time. Over the past few years the Council that is lucky enough to have me has sent letter to ask people who haven't donated to donate. This is dressed up as ensuring that they have the opportunity to donate! Some people see it as a bit of arm twisting. The more I think about it, the more I think that it's time for Councils to charge a membership fee and do away with all this messing. This would force SE's to come up with budgets that make sense and free a lot of professionals to work in areas other than fund raising. (It definitely would mean that more effort would be put into membership.) Eamonn.

Be nice. Ea.

If I were to lose ten pounds. - HWMBO would really take over my side of the bed! Ea.

I have never been the sort of leader that "Pushes" or makes a big deal about advancement. I prefer what I call the "Stealth Style". By offering a program that does include or cover the stuff that Scouts need to advance, they meet the requirements while maybe (Not always!!) Knowing that they are meeting them. Much as I hate to! Takes knotting. Scouts at a Scout meeting trying to tie a knot does work! The sad thing is that the knot doesn't have any real meaning to the Scout and is just something he has to get done to get that bit signed off and move on to the next knot. Have the Scout participate in a Pioneering project or go out on a boat and learn to tie the knot. All of a sudden the knot means something and I like to think that there is a better chance of him remembering it. Of course this might mean that the adults need to keep good records? (I do) But most of the time a Scout will work out what he thinks he has done and will come up to me and say "Hey! Ea, I think that I've done such and such" I'll ask him when and where he thinks he did it? to which he might say "I cooked the main meal at the last couple of Campouts" Or I might ask him to show me that he has indeed mastered the skill. I know that at times I can be a little hard to deal with.This is because I see the skills learned on the way to First Class Scout as being the key that unlocks the road to new and exciting adventures and challenges. It's the adventures and challenges that hold the interest of the Scouts as they get older. Eamonn.

I have to admit to not having ever heard of a Sea Scouting Key 3. That doesn't mean that there isn't one or that there hasn't been one. I know all about District Key 3's. Having spent a fair amount of time serving as a member. What I posted about the District Key 3 is not far off the mark. I really don't think that just because a District has a Ship that the District Guys (Chairman, District Commissioner and DE) have any need to take on titles (Squadron Director and Squadron Commodore) To be honest I have never heard of a Venturing or Sea Scout Key 3? Just as I have never heard of a Cub Scouting or Boy Scouting Key 3. When I look at the four main purposes of a District I don't see the need for another Key 3? I do know of some Councils who have a Council Vice President for Venturing. In fact I had a fellow who held that position in a local Council in a WB Patrol that I was a TG for. He seen his role as developing plans for Venturing and doing his best to help establish Venturing in that Council. I really can't remember if that Council had or what they had set up at the District level to deal with Venturing? The District I serve seems to do OK allowing Venturing to fall in line with the traditional units, using District chairs and the like to help as and when needed. Jerry Clark who sits on the NE-Region Area 4 Committee is a member of the same Council as myself and as far as I know he has not voiced that we are doing anything wrong. (Anyone who knows Jerry knows that he isn't one to let things slide.) Eamonn.

"Common sense; that thing that seems to have gotten lost to far too many of the more recent generations." I'm not so sure it has anything to do with generations. Last week a co-worker was telling me that he was so happy that at long last he'd paid off his truck. I was happy for him. But then he went o to say that he'd looked at a new Harley Davidson motorcycle, the payment was only twenty bucks a month more than what his truck payment was. A friend of HWMBO visited and was complaining that now her youngest is going to graduate and will soon be off to college she is going to have to buy two new cars. (One for the oldest who has never taken the test!) She went on to say how broke they were and how hard things were. -Last month the entire family went on a cruise!! Her husband drives about 80 miles a day round trip to work. His old truck is about ready to call it a day. So before the end of the year they will end up buying 3 cars. I would never tell anyone how or where to spend their hard earned money. Lord knows I have wasted more than my fair share. Both HWMBO and OJ tell me that I'm cheap! I tell them that I'm frugal! I am willing to spend money when I have too! I do like what I like and am willing to spend money on things that will last or will save money in the long term. Eamonn.

Ed, I think we have been lucky, living here in SW- PA. Property and house prices didn't /haven't changed that much. That isn't to say that people don't make bad choices. Last fall, I mentioned to a Realtor that I was thinking of buying something smaller, maybe a condo? She started sending listing after listing. The homes were all very nice, but they started at about $650,000. As I say the homes were nice, I'm not sure about them being $650,000 nice? On the local news we hear about local companies laying people off and moving away. It's kinda sad that in our area this really isn't news anymore. A case of "Been there, done that" all over again. I'm sure that some firms are using this time of doom and gloom to sweep clean. Which maybe in the long term will be a good thing? Of course the news doesn't cover the small business's that are hurting or closing because everyone is cutting back and afraid to spend any money. For my part. I'm trying my best to support the local store and shops, by-passing the big chain-stores. But even then the big stores are cutting back laying off local workers. As a family we have made some cuts. This year we didn't renew our membership to the club, not so much because of the costs but because we were having a hard time spending the monthly minimum. I miss popping in for a quick one (Or two!!) But it's not really a big deal for me. Still I know the girls who wait tables are hurting and most of them have small kids. We have looked at other areas where we thought we might be spending too much. We raised our deductibles on some of our insurance policies, set the thermostat back a little. Packaged our Internet, phone and TV services. So far we have not cut back on the donations we make to different charities, but will take a long hard look at these this year. I don't know why the FOS campaign in our Council starts in February? They will have to wait till late December before they see anything from me! I kinda feel bad for not buying an American car. But the truth is there just wasn't an American car out there that I wanted to buy. The German cars were just so much nicer. I'm happy that the price of gas is down. I got really upset when the local newscasters seemed to treat $4.25 a gal. As a joke! To me it just wasn't funny. Food prices seem to now be fairly stable. The local farmers don't seem to be in such a mad rush to plant as much corn. My hope is that the people who represent us on local school boards and at the local and state level will see that the money just isn't there for unnecessary projects and not hit us with more taxes. I think we know that once the money from the stimulus runs out, we are going to be faced with paying for all these new policemen, teachers and the like. Much as I'd like to see universal health care, I'm just not sure if now is the best time to go for it? But I know that no time is ever going to be a good time. Truth is that I've fallen into the "I'm alright Jack" frame of mind. Which is a sad thing. Eamonn.

The District key 3 is made up of: The District Chairman. The District Commissioner The District Executive. Unit Support should be managed by the District Commissioner. The District Committee as a rule has within it smaller committees. Most Districts have: A membership committee A advancement committee A camping and activities committee A finance committee. These smaller committees can vary a little from District to District. But should have knowledge about all the sections and strive to include and meet the needs of all the sections. (Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, Venturing of which Sea Scouting is a part of.) In most Districts the people who serve on these committees have been involved in Cub Scouting and Boy Scouting but have very little knowledge of Venturing and even less about Sea Scouting. When we started a Ship, we were the only Ship in the Council and there hadn't been a Ship in the Council since sometime in the 1950's. In the early days we relied very heavily on the Flotilla to help us find our way. Don't get hung up on the titles! Contact your nearest flotilla and they will put you in contact with people in the know. Sea Scouter's are among the most helpful and generous people in the BSA. With so few Ships in so many Council's, it isn't surprising that Districts don't have all the support and training's set up within the District /Council. You don't post what are you are in? Here in the NE-Region we have some outstanding Sea Scouter's who are really super and can't do enough to help a new Ship. Eamonn.

Not in PDF. Here is the link: http://imap-client.com/wfbsa-oldarchive/wfbsa/Documents/About/WFCouncilhistory.htm Eamonn

I kinda think that it is important to point out that this in not the norm. Some years back the Parish Priest that we had at the time did try something like this. Whatever it was that he had hoped to achieve failed! In the end just about everyone was upset.The people who were on the list were embarrassed and the people who weren't on the list didn't want to be seen on the list. There are ways that much the same thing can be done without the upset. Our local theater recognizes people or groups who donate at different levels. I can't remember the details but a Gold Sponsor might donate over $10,000.00 a silver over $5,000.00 but less then $10,000.00 and so on. The BSA has the James E. West, the Council I serve has special CSP's for people who donate over $100.00. Those who don't want to be recognized can donate and remain anonymous. As for the privacy issue? I think a lot would depend on what the people were told when they donated. The bottom line as far as I'm concerned is that this type of thing tends to backfire and upsets a lot of people. As to the ethics? I'll think on that one. Eamonn.

I know that when it comes to money, I have a very simplistic way of managing it and thinking about it. I tend not to buy things that I can't afford, waiting till I can afford them and then buying them. I tend not to use credit cards for credit, but more for the convenience. I do use my American Express card a fair bit, but pay it off when they send me the bill. I'm not happy paying the $35.00 a year fee. But see it as me paying them for the convenience. (I do get a little peeved about all the junk mail they send.) I have borrowed large amounts of money from banks. As I see it the risk that the bank takes is not that great. I use their money to buy real estate. They have looked at and appraised the value of what it is worth. They know me and know how I have acted in the past. We talk and at some stage come to an agreement about all the fees they think they want to charge me and what the cost will be for me using their money. I look at the fees they charge and the interest they charge as the cost of them doing business. I'm not always happy but I know that before I buy what I want to buy I can just say no and walk away with no harm done. My big hope is that when I decide to sell what ever it was that I bought is that I'll end up ahead covering all the costs that I paid out.If it looks like I'm not going to get what I want or need to cover my costs I'm happy to wait until such a time as I will. Most times the bank or another bank will get involved and help someone else buy what I'm selling. While I do see that the bank is maybe taking a risk. I think that if they do their homework and check things out, their risk is not that great. Like most people in the USA I have invested money in the market, I trusted my financial adviser to help make sure that I made money. I lost a fair amount of money from my 401k and lost money I had invested in other areas. Of course I'm not happy about that. But I'd like to know where the money went? Where is it? I know I don't have it. If I were a gambling man (Which I'm not.) and had gambled it, I could see that the casino or who ever had taken my bet would end up with what was once my money. But this money seems to have just disappeared. Where'd it go? Now to make matters worse it seems that because this money has dried up the government is printing more money. So on top of all the money we all lost and seems to have vaporized. We now owe $36,000 each, our part of the new debt. Where did all of our money go? Has it moved overseas? Is it sitting in a big bank vault in China? Eamonn

Many of us who have spent some time serving at the District /Council level have heard things that are maybe not right. While of course anything which would harm or hurt a child does need to be dealt with ASAP. The other times? Is very much a judgment call. I think in one song Rod Stewart has a line: "What's the point of talking if no one is listening?" Very often the people who are doing their own thing (Dare I use the term "Tweaking"?) Know what they are doing is not the way it is supposed to done. Sometimes the best thing to do is to take plenty of no notice. Sometimes (I'll admit I do this when someone is getting up my nose!) It is worth just telling the person "Hey you know and I know that what your doing is just wrong! Then just walk away. If the person doesn't know? Then of course things are different and it is worth your while explaining what is what and where to go to find the right information. Telling the DE? I'm not sure what the point of that might be? A lot of times the guys who come up with this stuff really do have the best intentions. Some think that they are doing something to save the BSA by adding this stuff. They have the full support of the Committee and maybe even the CO. Of course when something goes wrong they will find out that they may not have the support of the District or the Council. When this happens they tend to blame the District or the Council for not supporting them! But maybe it's worth mentioning that in the 25 years I've been around the BSA, I only know of two Scouts who have made an appeal to National. Eamonn.

"What do you perceive Billy's parents expect when Billy comes home from Scout Camp? If Billy is anything like OJ was/is: Lots of dirty laundry! A very dirty kid. (Oh yes I love the "We went for a swim everyday" story!) A few new cuts, scratches and bruises. A lot of stuff that will take months, sometimes even years to come out. By which time it of course will only be half true and too late to do anything about. Some really great new stories that he is willing to share with the old folks. A new list of people who did something that got on his last nerve. Only half the underwear he took with him, this half is clean and he will still be wearing the underwear he left home wearing. A phone call from my pal the camp director telling me that he borrowed ten bucks and said that Dad would be happy to repay it! A kid who is really hungry, stories about how bad most of the food was, but needless to say the pizza was good. A very tired kid who after he has eaten everything on the menu at the Laurel Inn, sleeps the entire journey home. When he gets home he eats some more and then sleeps the rest of the day, only moving to pee and eat. HWMBO can expect to be really itchy as he forgot to tell her that he fell in poison ivy and it was all over the third load of laundry. I can expect the dogs to go a little crazy because they missed him. Friday will sleep on his bed only moving to eat and pee. Rory will keep vigil for a while but will get bored and look for something to eat. I will get upset because he has lost one of the new hiking boots I bought him. It will turn up in the backseat of the car a few days later. The lost sleeping bag, never does turn up. The allergy pills he had to have and couldn't go without, will be found in the furthest corner of his foot-locker. -Un-opened! (Under a roll of damp TP which he had to have because the bathrooms at camp never have any.) A call from his best friends mother saying she has found a pile of underwear in her sons footlocker which doesn't belong to him and she questions where he got a copy of Playboy magazine. (We of course deny any knowledge of it, as does OJ the next day when he is awake but still eating.) He does have one Merit Badge the Artist Badge, he informs me when HWMBO isn't around that he only took it because the girl doing it was hot! She also had a car and would go out and buy pizza! A call from the Council Camping Chairman who is going on about something that happened to the camp tractor. "Did I know and was I aware that it was a diesel tractor? If so why didn't I tell OJ?" (I'm happy to refer him to the Camp Ranger who should have been watching!) I ask did filling it with gas really do any damage? He isn't a happy camper and he tells me that OJ has borrowed ten bucks from him to buy a pizza. I'm happy that my kid has returned home. I'm happy that he didn't get badly hurt. I'm happy that he has had fun. I'm not happy that I now owe $20.00 I'm scared that I'm going to get a bill to have the tractor repaired. The Artist Merit Badge is something he is proud of, not only was she hot but they are going out on a date to pizza hut. Eamonn.

Hi, Man oh man, I wish I were in your shoes!! I'm sure I'd be counting the days till camp started. If I were you! I'd contact the Camp Director or the Program Director and do my best to find out what I was doing. Read the requirements a few times, make sure you understand what they are. Think about ways of presenting the material which will hold the interest of the Scouts. Think about what equipment you might need that might help you do a better job. Some of this stuff you might already have, the camp might have or might be willing to get. Don't ever be afraid to ask for what you might need! The worst thing that can happen is that they will say no! Don't take it personally if they do say no! Look at th area where you will be working! Think about making it work for you and the Scouts that you will be working with. On day one when each new group arrives set the ground rules. Let them know what you intend to do and when you intend to do it! For this you will need a plan -Plan Your Work and Work Your Plan. Let them know what is expected of them. Make sure they know when they are to be where ever it is they are supposed to be. If you plan to start on time let them know that and start on time. If you are going to allow a few minutes "Grace Time" let them know that. But be consistent!! When anyone (Youth or adult) attends any sort of a training they want to feel that the guy do the presenting knows what he is talking about and is not going to waste their time. If people feel that their time is being wasted they will find ways of filling in that time. Most often they will use this time to do stuff that gets in the way of what you are trying to do and makes it hard for everyone. You might want to think of some kind of rewards for the group. Nothing big!! Maybe you could tell them that if we get everything done early on the last day (You know they will because you planned it that way!!)That you are going to show them the pictures you took in that beautiful country across the big pond!! Or maybe on the last day they could help you put together a presentation of the digital pictures you took of them working on the badge over the week! The Camp Director might allow it to be shown at the final camp fire or in the dining hall. One big part of being on staff at camp is that a lot of the younger Scouts are going to look up to you. Like it or not to some of these little Lads you are some kind of a hero. Many will want to be like you when they get older! This is a lofty responsibility! You are "On Stage" All the time! But more than just being the great example that I'm sure you are!! Be a nice guy. Take the time to talk with these little fellows when you see them. Stop and chat with them when you see them around the camp. If you can, try and sit next to a few of them at meal times. Take my word for it, in a few months much of the material that you cover could well be forgotten. - But the impression you make on these little guys will last a life time. I'm still green with envy. I hope you have the best summer camp ever. Eamonn.

Most of the people who post here are parents. A good many have been around for a while, seeing young Lads come and go. Watching their own kids "Grow into their own skin." Many years back, my Lady wife (Her Who Must Be Obeyed) bought a picture frame. In the center there was a big hole to place a mug shot of my kid when he graduated, all around this was smaller holes for class photos taken at each grade level. I look at that cute little fellow in first grade with curly blond hair and then think about the conversation we had (Son & Self.) Last week about him wanting to get a tattoo! He is going to be 21 in July. As others have posted things will change and chances are that your son will also change. Advancement in Scouting isn't a bad thing. But it's not the only thing. Sure I was proud of my kid when he made Eagle Scout. He was 17 when he made it! At 11 years old. He seen the older Scouts and had heard about Eagle Scout. He knew it was a good thing. He never said it but at that age he wanted to please me, he wanted to make me happy. He thought that this Eagle Scout thing would do just that! At 11 years old, he was a very good soccer player. I was involved as an assistant coach. His uncle was a soccer coach who was taking teams across the pond to the UK. I spent a lot of my hard earned money paying for soccer camps. He was a good player. Not a great player. I had when I was a SM of a Troop in the UK a Lad who was a great player in fact an outstanding player, he signed on to play for Chelsea. He lasted less than four years. The list of activities and interests that my son has had since he was 11 is a very long one. Or you could just do like most parents, let him join a Troop and just wait and see what happens? Ea. Since he was 16 cars, girls and the OA were top of his list. Soccer got cast aside, when one year he didn't like the coach! I have never worked out how the BSA comes up with it? But I keep hearing that something less than five percent of Scouts make Eagle Scout. Given them odds. Do you think your son is going to make it? Maybe you might be better waiting till he is 14 and looking at Venturing or Sea Scouts? By that time he will know what it is that he maybe wants to do?

When the Ship first started the boys that joined were for the most part the Scouts who were really into Scouts and Scouting. A good number were Eagle Scouts or Life Scouts, many were also active in the OA, serving as officers in the lodge. Most had at one time taken JLTC,or what replaced it. I thought to myself that this was going to be easy. I went to great lengths to let them all know that the Ship was their Ship and what we did or didn't do was in their hands. I was soon made very aware that it wasn't going to be easy and the idea that what we were going to do being up to them was new to them. They expected what I seen as a "Heat and Serve" program. By that I mean that they were happy to do what they could near the end of whatever, were happy and even competent to follow instructions. When the females came along, who had never been through all the Leadership Training's, never been involved in Scouts and Scouting, they seemed far more able to take the bull by the horns and not only get the task done, but come up with what the task was in the first place. The parents of the boys seemed to want to keep an eye on what their son was doing and seemed unhappy when they asked questions where the answer was "I'm waiting for the Scouts to let me know!" The parents of the girls seemed to have a better understanding that the Ship belonged to the Scouts and my role was that of an adviser. I do understand that girls mature a little faster than boys. But I do feel that part of the problem was that the boys and their parents had grown to expect that the adults would carry most of the load. Many of the boys seen leadership as being something along the lines of leading the group into the mess hall at summer camp, or just passing along instructions which they had played no part in helping to make. When I was a new adult leader, I was OK with using the PLC to act as my message delivery service. I'd come up with ideas that I thought were good ideas, I'd work out how we would put these ideas into some kind of an action, covering much of the what, where and when. Then the PLC would meet and I'd pass on this information for them to carry back to the Patrols. With the Ship, I seen that my role was going to be that of a coach until the members seen and started to understand and grasp that the Ship really was theirs and that they really were to people in charge. The first few Quarterdeck Training's we held didn't work out that well. We seemed to get lost in the details of what we were going to do and not get into how it was going to be done or what it was that we wanted to do. While the Walmart example isn't a bad one. I can't help thinking that we need to be looking a lot deeper. Is the Wal-mart worker just leading the guys into the dining room? Does the Wal-Mart worker have any say in what Wal-Mart is going to sell? As adults we do need to tailor the style of leadership we use to fit the needs of the Scouts we serve. We need to keep a close eye on what we are doing and ensure that we are trying to move toward allowing the Scouts the freedom to be true leaders. All too often we fail to look at what we are doing and keep on doing what we have been doing, in part because it is the easy way to ensure that things get done, in part because we fall into the trap of thinking what we are doing is the only way to do it. When I look at some of the better looking Troops (Healthy Troops that seem to offer great programs and opportunities for the members). I also see that the SM has taken on the role of a coach and seems happy to leave things the way they are. This youth led thing is always in a state of change. There are times when it seems that it is never going to take hold, times when it does take hold but only for a very short time and if we are very lucky times when it just falls into place and hangs around for a while, only to one day just fall apart. This would seem like a good time o dig out all them great notes that we took at WB and re-read the stuff about High Performance Teams. Eamonn.

Not sure I like the word "Mandate"? I know I have and can point a PLC in the direction I think they should be in. At one PLC meeting the guys said that they wanted to go to Disney in Florida. (I can never remember which is Land and which is world!) They expected me to say that this was just a silly idea. I didn't. I said it was a wonderful idea. I went on about the Merit Badges that Disney offers and how much fun traveling to Florida would be. Then I asked them to find out how much it would cost? Once they worked out how much and seen how much fund raising would be involved they had a change of heart. I kinda knew this was going to happen. Rather than a Mandate, I think having the youth find out why something isn't going to work (Or on the other hand is going to work.) Is the way to go. I have not read the other thread. But when it comes to a food budget. I think maybe having it as an agenda item for the PLC is a good thing. Allowing them to look at a menu where the cost is too high and the consequences of this might be? Then looking at a menu where the cost is too low and looking at the consequences of that might be? How far you want to go with this? Is up to the PLC. Do they want to visit the local supermarket and price the menus? Or are they going to take the adults word that $50.00 is too high a cost for a weekend and $5.00 isn't enough? There are times when adults unknowingly force what they think is for the best on the youth that they serve. Almost 100% of the Troops in our Council attend the Council Summer Camp. Just about every unit signs up for the same site, same week next year before they depart this year. The Scouts are never asked what they want? It's just a given! Of course I can see that the adults do need to know when to ask for the time off work, they might need to look at the problems transporting a group of Scouts to someplace where parents wouldn't be able to just drop them off might entail and there might be questions about equipment? But I'd prefer if the Scouts were presented with the problems and left to work out what can work and what isn't going to work. I think if I were the SM, I could sway them to my way of thinking, while having them believe that it was their idea. A little like when HWMBO asks me "What do you want for dinner?" I reply "What have you got?" She answers "What do you want?" and we end up having chicken. -Which she has already pulled from the freezer and is now defrosting! Eamonn. gwd-scouter, None of us are perfect. We all end up doing what works. What might work today with one group of Scouts, might not work with another group. A great tool for finding out what is and isn't working is Reflections. Feed Back really is a gift. We all do what we can, when we can with the resources available. Some of the times that I have messed up are still talked about around camp fire around the world. With the passing of time they are now seen as being funny and the people who re-tell the stories are in no way being unkind.

Kinda like John, we invited SPL's to attend R/T meetings when it was felt that there was something for them to do. I think the SM needs to look at what is happening at the R/T meeting and the quality of the meeting before asking an SPL to attend. In the District I serve the Cubscout meetings are a lot of fun with lots going on. Sadly the Boy Scout meetings are not so hot. In part I think this is due to having leaders who have been around for a very long time and they feel that they are not going to take anything away from the meeting, so the guy in charge isn't really trying. A few adults only attend when they are unhappy about something, some it seems to me only attend when they want to score points for being miserable. I'm not sure I'd want youth who don't know these people to see them in action! One problem we ran into when we did invite SPL's was just getting them to the meeting and back home again. Driving one Scout home from a meeting, after the parking lot meeting meant it was a little late and then there is all the good stuff in YP. Eamonn.

My mother God rest her, used to tell me when I was younger that I was contrary! This was her Irish way of telling me that I was unhappy with myself and maybe being a bit of a pain in the neck at the same time. Over the past few years I have cut back on the time I spend doing things with and for Scouts. At times I feel like I'm in a catch 22 situation. I'm not around so I don't know whats going on, so I'm not around. I took on the District Membership Chairman role, mainly because a pal of mine asked me too and I wanted to support him and the new DE. I have to admit that I was disappointed with not getting unit reports, disappointed that the Executive Board has never filled the position of Vice-President of membership, disappointed that the Council has no plan or even a sense of direction when it comes to membership. I did write to the District Chair, Council President and SE expressing my disappointments. Over the winter, I looked for and managed to find reasons not to attend District Committee Meetings. It was too cold, it was snowing, I was tired, it was the holiday. I know deep down in my heart that my reasons weren't reasons they were just excuses. I even have found myself not attending things that I used to enjoy. I missed the OA banquet and volunteer recognition dinner and the Council Fund Raising Dinner. I have a cupboard full of uniforms, but have not put one on this year. My back yard has four boats in it. I kept my Ford Explorer in case it was needed to take the boats where they needed to be. I haven't used it in over six months. I'm thinking of trading it in on a nice little M-B convertible, which has all the bells and whistles. Of course that will mean that I'll never be able to help out if needed. The sad thing is that I miss being active! I'd kinda like to do something and do it well. Only I'm scared that I'll end up being over active again. I was asked to think about being District Chairman, when the nominating committee met last October. I very quickly said thanks, but no thanks. I knew that if I took that on I'd never be able to find reasons or excuses to not attend meetings. You would think with me doing so much less that I'd have lots more time on my hands and get a lot more things done. This isn't the case. I'm not sure where the extra time is going. I thought I was maybe watching more TV, but I'm not. I thought maybe I was sleeping more, but I'm not, I'm not even as active here in the forum as I was when I was busy. The only reason I'm coming up with is that I'm lazy. I'm almost sure that I don't want to remain as District Membership Chair. I am sure that I don't want to be a key 3 member again. I'm almost sure that if I were to become an Executive Board member that I'd end up upsetting someone by being not nice to them. In fact I'm not sure what I want to do. I kinda think if at this time I were to walk away and take a break, that I'd be done and would never return. All the time I hear my Mother sitting on my shoulder telling me that I'm just being contrary! I'm wondering if there are other Forum Members in a similar situation and how are they dealing with it? Eamonn.

DE's,come in all shapes and sizes, some come fresh out of college. Working for the BSA is their first real job. Some have been around for a while and have served elsewhere. By far the best DE I have ever had the pleasure to work with was a female who was in her forties when she first started to work for the BSA and her only experience of Scouts and Scouting was that her son was an Eagle Scout. He had been in a wonderful Troop with an outstanding program. Sad thing was the SM (A pal of mine!) Was the type who was very much a one man band, liked things done his way and had no time for the District or the Council. Many new DE's who are young and have been Scouts come along thinking that in some way they are going to fix the units programs and save the world. This Lady was old enough and wise enough to see that the volunteers didn't sign her pay check or write her evaluations; that was down to her bosses. She seen that from the get go that she did need the volunteers to enable her to reach her goals or the goals that others had set for her! When she first started she was very fortunate to have a guy as District Chairman who was well respected by just about everyone in the area, who knew and understood how Scouting and Councils work. (No it wasn't me ! -I learned a lot from this guy and he is my best friend.) The District Commissioner at that time was a female who I think suffered from hyperactivity! While she had spent most of her time in Cub Scouting, she did know a lot about Boy Scouting. In the real world she worked as a music teacher in an elementary school. She took her knowledge of working with kids and the sense of fun she had from working with music and used it in Scouting. She seemed to be everywhere and doing everything. She had two sons in a local Troop. Both the District Chairman and the District Chairman had a deep and great love for the District. More than anything they both wanted the District to do well, look good and both were very competitive wanting to come out on top of the other Districts. The new DE was wise enough to see that she could learn a lot from this pair and could tap into their experiences and knowledge. At PDL Training's she became very friendly with the presenters and again used them as a resource to help get what needed done. Having been born and brought up in the area where she worked was a very big advantage. As was coming from a very well to do family. She knew who to ask? To do what? With the knowledge that the person or people she'd asked would get it done. She was very much aware of the things that she had no knowledge of; especially when it came to program. In this area she was willing to offer the support that she could relying on the experience of the volunteers to get the job done. It didn't take any time at all for her to learn the importance of returning phone calls and that faxing the office worked better than calling! Sometimes one way communication does work best!! As volunteers, we all were very aware that we were being used! We knew that by us doing what we were doing we were making her look good. I have a filing-cabinet drawer full of Quality District plaques, that now have very little meaning to me, but Quality District was a very important part of her job. So to answer the what would I tell a DE? 1/ Always remember who signs your pay-check! The District is only part of the Council and if you get fired? Or quit, you are not doing any good for anyone. 2/ Share your critical achievements with the other members of the Key 3. They really can make it happen. 3/ Never ever interfere with the program that a unit is offering. Leave that to the Commissioner Staff. 4/ Let the District Chairman fight with the Executive Board, about things that don't seem right. He is a volunteer and has nothing to lose by making her boss look bad. 5/ Support the volunteers. 6/ Be polite return emails and phone calls ASAP if only to let the person who called or sent the email that you are going to pass "This one" on to the people who know how to deal with it. Eamonn.

RememberSchiff, I do very much see where you are coming from and do respect your view. As I posted I'm all for Scouts being Scouts 24/7. As you might know I work for the PA Department of Corrections. I spend my work hours surrounded by convicted criminals. People who have been convicted of murder, child molestation, drug dealers. The punishment they have received for the wrong that they have done is to be taken away from their homes, families, loved ones and be placed in a correctional facility. Some may also have to pay fines and undertake different programs while they are incarcerated. Some people think that the length of time that they spend in jail isn't long enough, some think that our jails are too soft and too easy. That is a matter of opinion. While a lot of inmates can't wait to be paroled, I have spoken to a good many who don't want to be paroled and want to serve out their full sentence. They want to get this part of their lives over with and move on. All say that they are never coming back to jail. The Lad who was in the wrong here has paid for what he did. I'm sure that he wants this to be over with and move on. I'm moved to think of the parable of the lost sheep. While I don't know this Lad. I wonder if he is a Lad that needs Scouting more than maybe we might like to think Scouting needs him? Little Angels are in no need of character development, they have earned their wings. It very well could be that this Lad is a little toad? It could be that he might grow up to be a big toad and end up spending time with me , where I work? I don't know. I do know whatever good we might be able to do is not going to get done by having him not attend meetings or by asking him to leave. Maybe in time he will also earn his wings? Eamonn.

I can't help wondering if the Lad who was the guilty party had received a very sever punishment from the school, something that the parents of the injured party were happy with; would they still want the Pack to be involved? Eamonn

I'm a little worried that these parents are looking at the Pack to get what might be their pound of flesh! If they are unhappy with what the school failed to do they need to talk with the school. The role of the Cubmaster and youth leaders is to provide the program. Matters of discipline should be managed by the Pack Management Committee. I really don't think I know of many Pack Management Committees who would be willing to take this on. I'm in total agreement that Scouts should try their best to live up to the promise, oath, law 24/7. I can see bringing this message to everyones attention. 3 years back I ran a red light, I thought I'd make it but I didn't. I paid the fine. End of story. Do we really think that the BSA should have got involved? The school has dealt with this situation as they thought was best/ End of story. Eamonn.