Eamonn

gwd-scouter, You were missed and I'm glad to see that you are back. As you know I'm not as young as I once was!! While I'm not in bad shape. Life has thrown me a few curve balls over the years, mainly in the shape of a messed up back. I'm not going to bore everyone with the details. It took me a long time to really understand that before I can take care of anyone else, I had to take care of myself. I know to some this sounds kinda selfish. But it really worked for me. When I was feeling up to par, I was a much better leader and able to deal with things a lot better. When I wasn't. I was a miserable old goat! You have to do what is the best for you. Scouting offers a lot of opportunities for everyone to find something that is a good fit for them. Troop/Pack and Crews all need people who are willing to serve on committees. Districts have lots of opportunities to serve. You do need to practice learning to say the word "No". There are people out there like me! Who at times will take a willing volunteer and then keep loading more and more on. Having served as a leader you still have rewards to come. I still enjoy and love the feeling of meeting an adult who was one of "My Scouts". While very few ever say thank you, I can tell from th way they act that they are proud of what they have done and where they are at. I'm big headed enough to think that maybe I played a small part in helping them get there. I have Scouts who were "My Scouts" who are now serving as leaders in many parts of the world. Some keep in contact via e-mail on a fairly regular basis, others just exchange Christmas cards. I enjoy hearing from the adults who attended WB and are still active in Troops and in Districts. None of us ever know how many lives we touch while serving as a leader. The ASM in the Troop OJ was in who lit the spark that got him interested in First Aid had at the time no idea that OJ would go on to work as an EMT and is now working at becoming RN/Para-medic. Making a difference in a lot of peoples lives. I never would have guessed that the little Lad who was interested in doing the Plane Spotters Badge would go on to work in air traffic control and then become the guy in charge of training Air Traffic Controllers in the UK. The truth is that we just don't know. I have to laugh every-time I use fresh garlic. It reminds me of when I was a Scout adding garlic to dish I was cooking at camp. I was to add 3 cloves. Only I didn't know what a clove was, so I added 3 bulbs!! Later this year I hope to take the test to become a Master Chef. All because someone was willing to volunteer their time and take an interest in me. No matter what you decide to do. Thank You. Thank you for taking the time. Who knows maybe one day when I'm safely tucked away in a nursing home one of you boys will be the one looking after me and it will all be thanks to you. Ea.

While I have never seen or heard anything that is in any way that might be seen as being "Official". When I was a member of the District Key 3, we always aimed to be able to raise enough money through FOS, Popcorn sales and special District Activities, to cover the cost of having a DE. I very much doubt if a District with only 20 units can raise this sort of money. There are sometimes reasons why there might have to be a small District. I of course don't know why the previous SE wanted to change things? For a while there was a big push that we would have a DE to serve every 100 youth members. It might be interesting to know if when the Council went from 5 Districts to 9, if the Class of the Council was changed? If it was? I would have to wonder if the SE might have had his own reasons for the change. My guess is that the FD is now between a rock and a hard place? Trying to merge two active Committees is not ever easy. This would mean having to ask people to step down and this can cause friction. Allowing one Committee to just not be there any more and then just announcing that "This is your new Committee!" Might seem like the better path to take. The Vice-President for District Operations should be the go to person for this. I would have hoped that the Council Executive Board would have looked at any merging of Districts before any action was taken, if so the then District Chairman if he bothered to attend the Board Meetings should have at least some of the details. Not having a District Committee for the most part makes very little difference to the Scouts in the District. Units do what they do, with or without a District Committee. To help clear the air I would invite the VP-District Operations to attend a meeting where a good many of the members of the District would be there. Maybe a R/T meeting? Failing that I'd have the VP ask the FD to attend. If the FD is there? I'd pay very special attention to what is said. Some professionals have a way of not always telling things as they really are. Ea.

Scouting is supposed to be fun. Fun for both the adults and the Scouts. All the best Troops I know have a team of adults who get along well and are team players. Today the guys who were my ASM's are still people that I see as being my best friends. I was never happy with a large "Adult Leadership Team". (Not that I ever had one!) The guys who worked with me, were all super guys. Pete was the Troop QM. He was the Father of a couple of Scouts. He joined the Troop when his kids joined Cub Scouts, was there all the way through the time they were Scouts and for about five years after they aged out. He quit the Troop when he retired and moved from the area. Fred was the most knowledgeable Scout Skills guy I ever knew. He was a King's Scout. He in the real world was the head lighting Designer for Thorn/EMI. He had for many years been the SM of a Troop. Sadly he wasn't that good with working with younger Lads. The Troop he was with reflected this and folded when a great group of older Scouts all seemed to age out about the same time and with no younger Scouts to replace them it just folded. Cliff was our youngest Leader, he was really into First Aid. He wasn't the brightest person I ever met, he worked as a butcher. The Scouts really liked him, they seen him as being really cool, he had an ear-ring and was into much of the music and "New-Stuff" That the other adults just weren't. John was the high tech guy who was into anything to do with light-weight camping, maps, compass, orienteering and that sort of thing. Graham, had been a ASM in the Troop when I was Venture Scout, he was just a nice guy who was fun to have around, he liked the Scouts and they liked him. We all were pals outside of Scouting, spending time together. We all when we were free on a Sunday meet at my Parish club for a few pre-lunch adult beverages and would get together after Troop meetings for a couple and talk about what had gone on. As a rule the Troop Summer Camp was in August. Sometime soon after we would have our Annual Planning Meeting, with all the ASM's who were able to attend and all of the PLC. The main item on the agenda was where we would be going for Summer Camp next year. We would look at what we wanted to do? One year it was kayaking in Ireland.One year it was hiking in Switzerland, another year it was sailing in the Lake District in England. This "What we wanted to do" In many ways gave shape to the themes for the coming year. Once we had the themes in place, coming up with dates for the Troop activities was never that hard. Trying to avoid clashes with District events was sometimes a real pain. Add to this that we had Scouts who attended six different High Schools and Scouts who belonged to a lot of different religions! This sometimes meant that something had to give and somethings just couldn't be done. Cliff of course seen the District First Aid Competition as being the main event of his year! John seen the District Orienteering as being the biggie for him. Sometimes compromises had to be made, with the Scouts having the final word. Even if this meant that the ASM's feeling might be hurt a little. There were times when some things the Scouts came up with just couldn't be done when they wanted them done, sometimes these things were just moved to another date and sometimes they were put on the back burner for as long as a year. Sometimes it was seen that the activity was something that the Troop didn't want to do. While maybe a Patrol did, so the Patrol went ahead and planned it with depending on the skill of the P/L help from one of the adults. I did try and visit or have someone look in when Patrols were doing things as Patrols. No one ever wants to feel that they have someone looking over their shoulder or all the time evaluating how they are doing. When I was SM the Committee were 101% behind me, even if they did feel at times that I was spending way too much money on equipment. I had a reputation of maybe moving a little too fast and doing things before I'd really worked out everything. At the end of the day everything comes down to trust. The Committee selected me to be the SM. As SM I knew where the buck stopped! I seen my role as doing what I could to help provide the best possible program that I could for the Scouts in the Troop and at the same time build a strong foundation for the Lads that would follow. There were times when the Committee were not 100% behind me. Like when we stopped having a monthly church parade. The Troop was not tied to any church, but somehow, someway had at sometime started one Sunday a month going to a church. The Committee chair attended this church and was on the church council. Once a month the Scouts in full uniform would toddle off to this church. The local Boy's Brigade also went to this church. Me being R/C never really felt any connection to the church and I'll admit my main goal each month was to have more boys show up than the Boys Brigade had. As the Troop grew we seen a lot of boys who weren't Christian join the Troop, having Hindu, Muslin,Jewish Lads sit through a church service just to feed my ego was silly. So once a month we went to the local hospital which was big (15 Floors) and brought the patients down for the Hospital church service. The Scouts were given the option of attending the church service or the hospital provide a voucher that they could spend in the Hospital Caf while the service went on and then after the service they would wheel the patients back. At first the committee were not keen on this idea, but after a couple of articles in the local press (The editor had been a patient that the Scout had taken to the church service) They seen it as a good idea. I have a big sign in my office that reads "Fix the Problem and forget about the blame". Adults working as a team with a Troop should be working as a team to fix whatever the problem might be. Pointing fingers, trying to affix blame, bad mouthing and putting down others not only doesn't work, but is sets a very poor example to the Scouts who we hope will be the leaders that will one day follow us and take care of us when we are old. Ea.

Don't know about anyone else? But having read the link that Blancmange posted. The BSA has made it very clear what the rule is. This youth led thing. Is wonderful when it happens. But it doesn't happen all the time and I'll bet my bottom dollar that in most of the Troops in the District I serve it hardly ever happens. It takes a fair amount of time for a new leader to really understand how it works, then more time to get the Scouts to see how it works and then a little time for everyone to fall into it, by which time there is a new group of Scouts and we are back to the "Deer caught in the headlights" I love the Disney movie the Jungle Book. There is a great scene with three vultures who sound very much like the Beatles. #1 Vulture asks the others "What shall we do?" #2 Answers "I don't know, what do you want to do? #3 Vulture replies "I don't know, what do you want to do?" #1 Vulture again asks "What shall we do?" I have even with older Sea Scouts gone through this sort of thing a lot of times. It takes a while for a leader to be able to get the Scouts thinking and maybe at the same time steer them into doing what was going to happen anyway, while having them think it was all their idea. moosetracker, Scoutmasters are not slaves to the Scouts they serve. If the SM has very strong religious convictions that he feels he must follow. I would hope that we all would respect them. He would explain to the PLC that his attendance at the church of his choice was something that just wasn't negotiable and whatever plans they made would be made with this in mind. There are some dates when no matter what, I would never plan an event and if there was an event planned, I'd make it clear that if left to me, we wouldn't be going. (I'm thinking of my birthday, HWMBO birthday,Mothers Day , our anniversary and dates like that.) I'd be fine with some other adult who was up to the task, taking my place. But if there wasn't anyone? That's just the way it is. Of course when we make our annual plan I would make sure everyone knew what dates I wasn't going to be available. Sadly some events are not always planned when we make our plan. Most situations can be avoided with careful planning and open communication. So to answer your question " Would the SM not allow them to go?" My hope would be that it would never get that far. The hike would be planned so as everyone would be happy. Beavah makes a good point. If you are unhappy serving as an Assistant to the Scoutmaster and there is no way of working things out, maybe you are not assisting him and it's time to look elsewhere? Or maybe it's time to just think what ASM stands for? Ea.

I served on our Area Committee for a few years. The main topics on each and every agendas were: Membership and Council Finances. Here in SW- PA we have a lot of very small Councils. As membership has gone down, so has attendance at the Council Summer Camp. I know of one local Council that was down to only having 350 campers for the entire summer. I have watched over the years as the Council I serve has cut weeks from summer camp as a way to save money. The camp that has only 350 campers now has to rely on volunteers to come and staff the camp. This means that some activities can only be offered to the Scouts when Mr. Whatshisname gets home from work. Sending people to NCS is expensive and finding youth staff who will only be paid to work for about a month is next to impossible. Last time I visited the SE was on a tractor mowing the grass! Even though I sat on our Executive Board for a number of years, I was never really able to find out how much our camp really costs to run. This was in part thanks to the stupid way the BSA (Read Scoutnet!) Has things set up. Camp Staff wages are in with the wages paid to everyone in the council. Maintenance can include anything from changing the oil in the SE's car to fixing a building at camp. A new item such as a fridge for camp can be listed as a capital purchase or as part of the Council budget. We have about 1,100 campers per summer. This year the cost is $275.00 for a week ($302,500.for the summer.) The camp has a staff of about 60. The Staff arrives a week before the campers and is there a week after them. Wages eats up a lot of the income. The camp pool is an old and a couple of years back needed sand-blasted and repainted at a cost of over $100,000. Trucks at camp seem to have a very short life-span! I'm not sure why? A tractor a few years back cost over $60,000. Food and feeding the campers and staff isn't cheap. Worse still, is the fact that we don't own the camp. It is in a State Park and we lease the ground. This means that all the buildings that we have put up over the years and the improvements we have made (New water lines, shower blocks and so on) Could all one day be lost. We have another camp, but it seems that we will never have the money to make enough improvements so as to make it attractive enough for campers. While compared to other youth camps $275 for a week is not that expensive, many of our older SM's and people like myself remember when it was only $25.00 for a week! Councils are really facing a hard time, money is hard to get and costs are rising. The hit we all felt when the market fell hurt Councils as well. If camps are a drain on the resources of a Council? Steps have to be taken. If Boy Scout membership falls, which having seen the decline in Cub Scout membership over the past number of years, it is expected to do. There will be less Scouts attending camps. Some well to do Councils are spending a lot of money on camps that they own in the hope of attracting out of Council campers, which is going to hurt the Councils who are barely getting by now. Ea.

There is a big difference between "Help and support" and taking over. COR don't take over a unit! When a suitable adult can't be found, this would fall on the Committee Chair. Sad as it might be, there are times when the best thing that can happen is for a unit to fold. I'm thinking from what has been posted that might be the case here. Scoutmasters should be taking care of the program side of running the Troop. The Committee should be the management body. Sure the COR and the Committee select and approve the adults who will lead the Troop. If they have messed up and selected the wrong person, they need to take steps to correct that situation. A SM should have a very special bond with the Scouts he or she serves, especially with the Youth Leaders (PLC). All the Training's in the world aren't worth tiddly if the participants when they get back to the Troop they came from are not allowed to put the skills they have learned into practice. This applies to youth and adult members. I really think if I were this SM and had to put up with this committee, I'd last about a New York minute and then I'd be gone! Maybe that's what this committee is trying to do? I'd much prefer, if it was me. That they came straight out and thanked me for my past services. Ea.

I spent last week away from home at our DOC Academy attending a course on how to be a better Staff Trainer. While not really part of what we were trying to do?? One of the lesson plans we were presenting was on Managing Stress. Part of this was being able to recognize when someone is having stress. The syllabus stated that one sign was people coming to work in clothes that were in need of pressing and shoes that weren't polished. The lead instructor was playing the devils advocate and asked if everyone who came to work with un-polished shoes and a messy uniform was having stress? The answer was of course not. She went on to ask that if it wasn't stress what was it? I, being me!! Said that we can fix a lot of things but we can't fix stupid. I'm not saying that everyone who comes to work looking scruffy is stupid and I would never say that a SM is stupid. Still I very much doubt if this course will bring about that much of a change in an adult leader. Can he change? I don't know. I would go back and make my list of options! 1/ Do nothing -Always an option. What do you think will happen? 2/Find a nice way of asking him to step down. What might happen? 3/ Meet with the COR, CC and the CO and explain why he is not the best person for this job. Who will fill his shoes? Are you better off with the devil you know? 4/ Have the everyone involved with the Troop bend over back wards to help and support this fellow. Help him make plans that will work, help him get whatever training he might need. 5/ Don't waste your time on this guy! Tell him he is a lost cause and the Troop is going to fail and it's all his fault. It kinda helps when you look at what your options are to keep the Scout Oath and Law in mind. That bit about helping other people at all times and doing your best is very powerful stuff. Ea.

When I left the Pack I was CM of, my replacement was the fellow who was my ACM. A nice enough fellow. When his son was about ready to bridge over. He along with a few other parents started a new Troop. I was overjoyed. The Troop was part of my church. They started with a great group of Lads, nine of them who had been all the way through Cub Scouts from Tiger. They managed to pick up a couple more that first year. The following year there were nine or ten more Lads crossing over. But one Webelos Den Leader just didn't like the now SM. She never really had any time for this fellow. Kinda an oil and water thing. No real big reason, no big argument or fight. She just didn't like him. So with her help all the boys went to another Troop. Five or six years went by and then much the same thing happened, only this time it was the Troop that had received all the new crossovers that was by-passed and the Webelos all went to the Troop that hadn't got them, so many years back. Den Leaders play a big part in where the Scouts in their Den land. Many feel that because such and such a Troop is where their son is going this has to be the best choice. As a SM I was never sure what to do when Lads from a struggling Troop wanted to transfer to the Troop I was in. I really do hate to see a Troop fail and would hope that I never played a part in helping it fail. But all to often when I tried to talk a Lad out of joining us, he said that if he didn't he was going to quit. All Troops and Packs have peaks and valleys. What might not seem "Cool" to a group of Lads this year, very well might seem the cats whiskers to a group of Lads next year. All we can do is what we do and do our best to do it well. Ea.

JerseyScout, The news about the donation is news to me. However you might want to check to see if your going to be allowed to camp "(nearby)campground reserved". In the past no Tour permits have been issued for units wanting to camp within a certain distance. I can't remember if it was 50 or 100 miles. It might be worth checking with your Council Service Center. With any luck some of the money collected will be used to rent a lot more Porta-potties. At the last Jamboree they had 70,000 people at the show and a grand total of 24 potties. The lines were very long. But the dancing of the people in the lines was far more interesting than the show. Which I'm sad to say just wasn't that great. The show in 2001 was great with he old guy playing Somewhere over the rainbow on his saw. Ea. Ea.

Seems to me that the Troop has a lot more to deal with than just running a youth training! A Troop will only ever survive as long as the adults involved in it are willing to do what it takes to get the job done. If everyone has one eye on the door and can't wait to get the heck away? Why even bother? Sounds like the SM needs all the help and support he can get. Much as I hate to be disagreeable, I don't think having an adult just hanging around till his "Blue-eyed Favorite Scout" makes Eagle is in keeping with the Scout Law. When a Troop needs help with anything to do with training the District Training Chairman is the go to person. Ea.

The Sea Scout working uniform for those who choose to wear it is navy blue pants and the chambray shirt. Dickie's makes a great shirt in the color and the pants can be found just about anywhere. We have a lady who embroiders the Sea Scout logo on the shirt for $5.00. I really don't see any need for the Sea Scouts to change. Our guys (and girls!) Like the working uniform, in summer we have cargo shorts in the blue. The cost is a lot cheaper than anything that can be bought from the BSA. My great hope is that everything stays just the way it is. Ea.

Having not lived in the UK for over a quarter of a century! I don't in any way claim to be an expert on what goes on in that green and pleasant land. I do have some of the program material that came out when the big changes were made. OJ and I have spent a week camping with a English Scout Troop and I do talk on line with people involved in Scouting on that side of the pond. I really like the way that they have managed to shift from an advancement based program to a program that makes participation the main thing. The support material that is available for Troops is really good. I wasn't sure what all the fuss was when they came out with the balanced program that could be used for Troop meetings. I'll admit it took me a little while to work it all out and at first I thought maybe it was a little intrusive. But having now seen it in action. It works! I like the more relaxed (less formal) uniforming. While there isn't the CO like we have here in the USA. There are a lot of Troops with very strong ties to churches and religious organizations. From what I have read there does seem times when the government has gone a little overboard and silly when it comes to diversity, which includes how homosexuals are treated and accepted. I should add that the sillieness I read was about diversity in the work place not the Scout Troop. Change is not always easy. I think it took a lot of guts on the part of the Scout Association, when they seen things weren't working they made some very bold changes. I'm really happy to see that things are now heading in the right direction. Ea.

Please don't for a minute think I'm trying to pick on anyone or in any way put anyone down. Scouts and Scouting for me has always been something that for the most part is all about fun. Even when driving several hundred miles to attend an Area Meeting which I know before I get there will be about as interesting as watching paint dry. I keep reminding myself that it's all about making something better for the Scouts we all hope to serve. I really do try to do my best to ensure that no Scout is harmed. Sure there are times when having the entire Quarterdeck walk the plank seems like a wonderful idea. But I keep that thought to myself. For the most part, I know what the "Book" says and I know when I'm not following it. When I choose not to follow it, I have in my own mind found a good reason to not follow it. For example a very long time back when I was a CM. We had a lock in for the Pack in the church hall. Games, movies and pizza. In the middle of the night a young Lad who had eaten too much pizza woke me up and informed me that he was going to be sick. He was upset and crying. He was in his PJ's and I was in my underwear. I rushed him to the boys bathroom and stood with him while the pizza came up. Then out of no where all the YP stuff hit me like a brick! Here I am in my underwear, alone with a young Lad in his PJ's in a boys bathroom. I did leave him for a minute and got his Den Leader. We managed to settle him down, clean him up and we all went back to sleep. When his parents came I explained everything that had happened, including the part where I was alone with him. His parents were happy that I had been there for their son and that he hadn't got too upset. I explained that I had broken every rule in the book! They just didn't see it and thought I was nuts for bringing it up. During the time I have been working with Scouts, I have seen a little Lad left at camp and felt that there was no choice but to give him a ride home even though I was the only person in my car. I knew what rules I was breaking. I have with another adult in the tent been asked by Scouts to "Take a look" at insect bites on the behind, swollen testicles, cuts to the upper thigh. I have not always been comfortable with these requests, but have put my care and my concern for the Lad before my own comfort. Even today, the boats the ship owns are kept in a large shed on my property. The Scouts know that they can work on them when they can make the time. The shed isn't locked. Very often when I'm walking the dogs, I'll stop by to find a couple of Scouts working on a boat. I do stop and say Hi and do my best to get away before they find something for me to do! I'm not in any way saying that following the YP Guidelines are a bad thing. But not everything is always a YP issue. I have worked with Scouts (Male and female.) in the water showing different life-saving holds. I have given a Lad a push on his backside when we have been rock climbing. Take my word for it there is nothing about a Scouts backside that could ever in a million years even in the slightest be seen by me as a "Turn on". I'm very comfortable in my own mind and with my own sexuality. I can and do say that someone is handsome or good looking. Not because I'm in anyway interested in them "That Way!"But because they are. I know and have known all the Scouts I have worked with over the years. At times we have teased each other. There is no harm or any malice. There is some risk, but in many ways this friendly teasing acts to bring us closer together. I have seen and worked with some leaders who give me the creeps. The type of guys who make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Most times when it walks like a duck, acts like a duck and quacks, chances are that it is a duck, and needs to be treated like a duck. But not everything is always what it seems. Right now at work I'm working with a big African-American guy, who could have played the part in the Green Mile. I call him "Whitey". Not because he is black, but because his last name is White. I at times tease him, telling him that he is the nicest white black guy I know. At camp and on trips almost every group I have been involved with has been known for what can only be call group sillieness. At the last Jamboree each morning the Troop managed to get a Jamboree Staff member to join us for our Flag Ceremony and had them join us in the Polynesian Duck Dance. We have at times found something that someone has said and this has become the catch phase for the camp. Or a song that by the end of the week will drive everyone nuts, because we have sung it repeatedly. One camp th Scouts got the idea that they weren't going to call me Eamonn and replaced it with every name they could think of that started with the letters E OR A. I have given Scouts nick-names, which have stuck. Nothing unkind or in any way hurtful. Mostly done in friendly fun. In some ways things like this do help bring the entire group closer together. Sometimes a horse is a horse, it is just stuff that is done in fun, no one is harmed, no one is hurt. I'm sure if we try hard enough we can make this horse into a zebra. But when we do we run the risk of taking a lot of what I see as the fun in Scouting out of it. I'm very grateful for the trust that parents and organizations have placed in me. I do take the responsibilities placed on me to heart. In many ways I take better care of other peoples kids, more so than I do my own. I'm always very thankful that the Scouts are willing to spend their time with me. I will always do what I think is best for them. If this means having at times to put the rule book on the back burner? I'm OK with that. If this means that I'm not going ever to allow what I see as someones not so great interpretation of what the rule or policy is? I'm more than fine with it. Eamonn.

Fred, You have put me between a rock and a hard place! I'm not sure where the SM got this? Or where it came from? He is the SM and I hate to go against him. I was SM for the Jamboree in 01 and 05. As part of the fee paid by everyone in the Troop they received two Jambo t-shirts. The Troop came up with a t-shirt that the Troop members designed and they could buy as many or as few as they wanted. Most of them bought at least two. At the Jamboree we went with the same dress code as we have at summer camp. For dinner and "Formal" occasions everyone wore full uniform. Outside of the Troop camp site they wore Scout socks, shorts, belt and a Scouting type t-shirt. Many wore the camp Conestoga t-shirts or the Wagion Lodge t-shirts. We never had a dress code for what they could wear once back at our Troop Camp site. It was never a problem, a good many of the Scouts went shirtless both on site and while going and returning from the showers. My "Biggie" in 05 was ensuring that each and every Scout, when they left for the day had n ample supply of water. We as part of their fee provided a belt which had two water bottles, some scouts had camel packs and that was fine. I dislike hats but I wore one and strongly recommended that everyone else wore one. Again everyone did and it wasn't a problem. I kinda think if you can find the right time and place you might want to ask the SM where he got this? And maybe ask why? Be nice and don't challenge him. Who knows it might be something that the PLC came up with? Ea.

However sad we might think it might be. Many Camps get stuck with trying to please everyone. Upset the adults? Then the camp is no longer offered to the Scouts and they go someplace else. Upset the Scouts? Then they quit Scouts. Upset the parents and the see spending money for camp as being a waste of their hard earned cash. Most parents really don't know what goes on at camp.(Much as the like to think that they do!) They do know that when their kid gets home, he is going to crash out for the rest of the day and more than lightly the next day as well. They kinda expect to hear how bad the food was! Mums kinda like to hear this! It makes them know that nothing can replace home cooking. They also expect that the washer will be needed to go into overdrive in order to manage all the dirty clothes. It can several weeks and sometimes months or even years to find out what went on at camp. Many Scouts when asked "What happened at camp?" Will reply with the good old standby answer used by Scouts for generations: " Nothing!" When asked if they had a good time they are very lightly to get a full weather report and very little information about what went on, good or bad! So parents are left judging the camp by the number of badges that follow their son home. Most really don't care what went into earning these badges or how hard or easy they might have been. All they see is how many. We must be willing to take some of the blame. We might be guilty of maybe making too big a deal about the importance of Eagle Scout? Ea.

Yes Ed you are so right. If we are not careful everything becomes an issue and the issues will overwhelm everything we ever hope to do. Like it or not, at some point common sense has to kick in and we have to trust the people that we have selected to take care of our youth. I spent a week at PTC with a woman who somehow managed to turn everything into a YP issue. By the end of the week it was very nearly a AP (Adult Protection) Issue! What I wanted to do to her were a very long way from th Scout Oath and Law. Ea.

I have visited Troop meetings where soon after the opening Mr. SM reads off from his prepared list, which Scouts are going where to sit with Mr. Soandso to work on the merit badge that Mr. SM has selected for them. Different groups work on different badges and come back near the end of the meeting for a closing. This is not a good idea or how I think things should be done. A very good pal of mine who retired from teaching was asked to cover one of the Citizen Badges for a Troop who had done this. After the meeting he came to me saying that he thought that he'd lost it! He said that he seemed unable to control the group and hold their attention. When I pointed out that I wasn't surprised in how the Scouts acted and went on to say that the Scouts had little or no ownership in what they were doing he agreed with me. I have posted in the past how OJ my son refused to attend Troop meetings for about a month because the Troop leaders (Adults) had opted to meet at a local farm and cover the Farm Mechanics Badge, which he had no interest in. That same Troop invited an expert to come in and do the then Atomic Energy Badge. The expert covered the entire subject using only lecture. I sat in for part of it. I know I'm not the brightest light on the tree but after a few minutes the expert lost me! However at the next COH each and every Scout in the Troop received the badge. I'm not sure how dumb I really am? But I wonder if the eleven year old is really that much brighter than I am? I can and do see why some badges are done in groups. I think that the Scouts have to want to do these badges. I'm not a fan of Troop Meetings being used for just working from MB books,however I'm OK with having a month of meetings work around a theme which might be related to a badge. I'm thinking about the outdoor skill badges like cooking. In the early spring the District has a First Aid Competition, this seems to have been going on since BP was a Lad! I think it seems widely accepted by most Troops that for a few weeks before the competition First Aid is the theme that they all seem to work on. Many Troops enter Patrols in the competition as teams. (Sadly at times the scenarios offered are more in line with what will happen after WW III than what might happen at camp!) Many if not most of the local Troops have their own in house MBC for First Aid. I think I'd be happier if the badge was linked to passing a course from an outside agency. Some Scouts do learn stuff better when the material is presented to a group and the group is able to discuss and question the material and information offered. I'm 101% with The program drives advancement; advancement doesn't drive the program. For me the big thing is all about ownership. A Lad has to want to do a badge because it's something he wants to do. Not something that he is forced or coerced into doing. I do see how at times the interests and even the employment of the adults can maybe steer the youth. I like messing around with pioneering projects. I kinda, sorta managed to get the PLC to include these in the programs at camp, this led to a good many of the Scouts meeting the requirements for the badge. Troops with doctors or EMT's as leaders seem to somehow guide scouts into that area. I guess it's just human nature. Still if a Scout has little or no interest in something and the leader can't find a way of selling the subject or having the Scout buy into it. I don't think forcing the Scout is what we should be doing. Ea.

In the not so far off future I will have been around Scouts and Scouting for about fifty years. Sure, a lot of this time was before we had all the YP and all that good stuff. This "Campsite Attire" thing has never been an issue. (Other than when I first came over to the USA in 1977 when the camp staff, after the campers had all gone home would at times go skinny dipping in the camp pool. - But I don't even hear of that happening any more.) I remember when the first Troop I was in folded and I moved to my dearly beloved 17th Fulham (Pioneers) How one of the first things I noticed was how good the Scouts looked! They were all a great shade of brown with great tans. I wanted to look like them. I wanted to not be a white pasty little fellow. Sure this was before all the talk about sun damage came out and I'm sure I didn't know what sun block was or if it was even around. Today I'll admit to at times acting like an old mother hen, chasing our Sea Scouts around with an economy sized bottle of sun block in my hand and at times reminding them that a shirt might help prevent them from getting sun burnt. I'll also own up to teasing OJ about how stupid he looks with his newly pierced nipples, which have resulted in him losing the services of the BOD (Bank of Dad.) The Ship is co-ed. Before trips there is something that the QD came up with about covering up. No thongs or micro-bikinis. So far this has never been a problem. If I remember right the QD came up with this after receiving something from a camp that we had planned to attend which made mention of it. I'm 100% for Scouting being a place where no one gets harmed. If a Lad is uncomfortable removing his shirt or wants to shower in his underwear or swimming gear? That's his choice. Most times after a few trips even the shyest of Lads seem to overcome their shyness by themselves with little or no comments from the other Scouts. For me this just isn't a big deal unless of course we want to make a big deal of it. I suppose if there is need for a dress code? It should be managed by the youth members, just as we did when the camp stated their policy and our Scouts addressed it. The less rules a committee of adults comes up with, the easier it is for me to not have to enforce this stuff. Ea.

Many new Troops fail because they came to be (Started.) for reasons that were a little daffy from the get go. Some of the daffiness is: A new unit was needed in order for the District to make Quality and the Troop was thrown together without following any real plan. Some adults who were unhappy decided that doing their own thing was the way to go. A lot of times these people only see what is in the interest of their own sons and can't see beyond that. Much as I hate to admit it, while serving as District Commissioner and Chairman there have been a couple of Troops that I really hoped would fall and fail. A few years back I watched as what used to be one of the best Troops in the Council fell apart. Despite the best efforts of everyone in the District. This was the Troop from which our DE's son had earned his Eagle Scout in and in many ways was a big part in why she chose to work for the BSA. As far a program went? This Troop had everything down to an art. The Troop leaders had nearly all attended WB. So training was not the reason. The reason was that the Scoutmaster, even though he had ASM's was a one man show. The church that was the CO was very proud of the work done by the Troop and the Pack, but over the years really hadn't played any part in what the Scouting units did. Happy to allow them to meet in the church hall, store the gear in a part of the church and mow the grass in the church cemetery. The SM also served as CM. Both the Pack and the Troop were served by one committee, hand picked by the SM. Everything and everybody seemed to think that this SM walked on the water. As far as working with the youth and with parents the guy was really good. The Troop had no time for the District, didn't bother with District events, thought selling pop-corn and FOS was just evil and even after the DE who had a son in the Troop came to work for the Council, viewed her as some kind of spy who would given half a chance interfere with what they were doing. I'm not sure why but one day the SM got it into his head that he'd had enough. He told everyone that he was going to quit in two years. The District thought that a member of the Troop would step up to the plate. But everyone seemed to see this guy leaving as their opportunity to jump ship. The Committee said that they were only there to support this guy and when he was gone they were going with him. The SM seemed to think that it was the job of the District to find his replacement. Two years past and this guy was as good as his word, he left along with the active ASM's. The pack fell apart very soon after. The Troop lost most of the younger Scouts the first year. It was being led by an older ex-scout who was still in college. A few older Scouts who were close to Eagle hung around. The CO really didn't know what had been going on and seemed more concerned about who was going to mow the grass in the cemetery. I met with the church council, everyone wanted the Troop to continue. But nothing was working out to help. The church was merging with another church, so the church leadership was kinda up in the air. The active members in the church were mostly old people. The church council passed the responsibility of the Scouting units on to a church council member who was a nice guy. But he had political ambitions. He working as a teacher, serving on the Town Council and was running for mayor. This new Scouting role was something that even though when I met with him and he would say what I wanted to hear, he just really didn't have time for and his heart wasn't in it. (He'd never been a Scout.) Within five years all that was left was a Venture Crew, which lasted about four years and then folded. Most of the successful units seem to have a a few (sometimes just one!) adults who work well together and are able to have fun together working as a team. Sometimes when the leader of this group calls it a day everyone will follow. While having a Committee and a youth leadership team that is close works great, when this closeness is too close, when the leader quits everything falls apart. I have seen some Troops that are started when a few Den Leaders come together and start a "Friends Of ...." Do a wonderful job. But these seem to fall apart as their sons age out or quit Scouts. The thing that units that were once successful and then decline have in common is changes in leadership. Some Troops get a little overly comfortable with the Scouts they have and either don't bother with new new Scouts, happy to just serve the group that is there. Some go the other way and forget all about the older guys, only focusing on the younger Lads and seem shocked when after the first year half of these new younger Scouts quit and then after year three none of these once younger Scouts are left. Ea.

When I first read this, I was sure it was a bad idea. Then after thinking about it for a minute, I seen that it wasn't such a bad idea, just something that was different than the way we have been doing things. The camp has a pool, so the lake thing is a non-issue for us. Only thing is that the water is so darn cold! A lot different than the local pool we use for the Sea Scouts and their swim testing. I've noticed that I seem to get a cramp in my big toe when I'm swimming in it. I think this is because of the cold water? Much as I hate to admit it, I'm not as great a swimmer as I once was. Years back I could do the mile swim, with little or no bother! Now? I'm not so sure. Of course I blame the cramp in my big toe! Ea.

NJCubScouter Of course! What did you think I meant? (No! Don't answer that.) Ea.

This stuff might be OK to bath in, but drink it? Heck! I can think of some stuff that's a lot better! Eamonn.

I'm not a big fan of this part of the WB course. If I had to do a presentation on how to put up a tent. There is no way that I'd go about it by showing the wrong way to do it. My aim would be to show the right way to do it! This presentation seems to want to start off showing everything that is wrong and then try and change it. To my way of thinking - Not the best way to go about teaching values. Having said that. I have staffed four courses where it has been presented. The first time people did seem to be harmed by it. Which is something that we should try and avoid as much as is possible. The other three times it worked out OK. Not a part of the course that anyone will ever look back on with great fondness, but OK. Ea. It kinda helps if we give this presentation its full title!

I have never been involved in any of these School Units. A friend of mine worked in a boarding school in the UK which had a Troop within the school, kinda along the lines of a school club. Another friend was involved in a School Troop in a special needs school in the UK and a nephew in Ireland belonged to a Troop which was part of the school he attended. One problem I have noticed is that there seems to be separation from what goes on at school and what goes on in Scouts. Much as maybe the adults seem to want to let their hair down, they seem unable to do so, knowing that they will return to the classroom and deal with the Scouts as students. Some private schools and academies here in the USA do have Scouting programs. I've never had any dealings with them, only read the ads that used to be in Scouting Magazine. While I do believe that every boy should have the opportunity to join a Troop, I wonder if a Troop of well heeled kids from well to do families, with little or no chance of less privileged children ever being able to join, is such a good thing? As it is now we are seen as being an organization for white, kids from middle class homes. Eamonn.

Not to hijack the thread. I have a fair amount of "Scout Stuff", that the more I think about it and the more I look at it, really doesn't mean that much to me any more. A few years back, I unloaded a lot of mugs, leaving them in one of the buildings at camp, so others could use them or maybe even take them! I never gave any thought to what might or might not be seen as being "Restriced". I'm sure that most of it isn't. I'm way too lazy to bother to try and sell it on E-bay or any-place else. But not as yet ready to place it in the trash. As yet, I just not sure what to do with it all. Ea