Eamonn

"and how much of a burden these events become of the office staff. " I hate to be disagreeable, but I just don't see this. The word "Burden" just doesn't sit at all well. We have Council Service Centers in order that the staff provide service and support to and for the Council volunteers. The SE decides what size the support staff should be and the costs become part of his budget. This support is in fact why these people were hired in the first pace. We don't add anything extra on for the burden that the staff have during rechartering or recording all the MB's that have to be recorded after summer camp or the paperwork that new members cause. Many of us would like to see the extra money that a particular event might have put aside and earmarked for that event next year. But we (Well me anyway) Have been informed that this just can't be done. This at times does lead to our end user the Scout paying more for something that he isn't going to benefit from. I'm not sure what the cost of sending the Cub Scout Day Camp Director to National Camp School is? We used to have to send both the Camp Director and the Program Director. The certification was good for 3 years. When we selected the people to fill these positions we tried to get them to commit for the full 3 years. Because of the way things worked out in the District I serve we had no choice but to send 3 people (Both Directors and the DE)Every 3rd year. We knew it was coming and it would have been nice to spread this cost over each year. Unfortunately this wasn't allowed. So the choice was to put this training cost into the budget each and every year, allowing the cost on paper for the Scout attending to remain constant or add this training cost in every 3rd year and adding that cost to that years camp or allow the camp to run at a loss. I might add that the District is small with less than 100 Scouts attending the Day Camp. Ea.

Thankfully the Council I serve has never set a goal or had a set percentage of how much money should be made. People in charge of events are asked to make every effort to ensure that Training's and other events don't lose money. As a District Chair I had to meet with he other members of the Key 3 and sign off on the budgets for all of the events that the District would hold. As Council Training Chair. During my first year. I went head to head with our then SE over a WB course which he claimed had lost almost $1,800! It turned out that he was trying to charge the course for all sorts of things that the course either didn't use or the charges were just unfair. After a few very heated meetings we got the loss down to under $180.00 and to shut him up I just wrote a check to cover the loss. When I was asked to serve as the Director of a WB course. I made sure before the course that everyone knew what charges the course was going to incur. The SE who had been a pain had by then been fired! I kept an eye on all the money that was coming in and going out. The Council didn't charge the course for things that maybe it should have. We didn't pay anything for the use of the camp, the electric or gas we used in the buildings and that sort of thing. After my run in with the old SE I had got the Executive Board to agree that any Training's on Council property would not be charged. I have been on courses where they offer so much stuff for sale that at times you think your at the local mall not a Scouting event. We ended up making money. The course was full. Being in the food business I'd managed to get a lot of donations from my food suppliers. (I hadn't budgeted for donations.) One of the TG's worked as a photographer he took the course photos and they were offered for sale. Participants received a course and Patrol photo as part of the course fee, but we still sod a lot Participants received a ball cap and two t-shirts as part of the fee, but again we sold extras. We messed up big time. The Assistant SE who is a very close and dear friend was in charge of ordering the t-shirts. Which he did but he ordered them with the wrong course number. He had them made with the number that had been his number when he took the course. We set these out telling everyone that they were free, with a empty coffee can for anyone who wanted to make a donation. We ended up making a few extra bucks. I was surprised at the number of people who were willing to lose the $50.00 deposit. We used these deposits as a fund to help people who couldn't afford the course or were having a hard time paying for it. During the course I didn't have a lot to do, so I took photos. With some help of the guys who were more computer knowledgeable than me, I set these photos to the music that is played near the end of the course. We showed this to the participants and offered the disc for $10.00. I think everyone bought one. I'd got the disc's for next to nothing from Staples, so all we had in it was my time. We made over $700.00. On paper at the final reckoning the course made about $2,000. But we hadn't paid for the use of the camp for any of the weekends before the course or during the course and a lot of the illegal photocopying costs seem to have got lost along with the costs of the mailings. Some might say that selling the photos, shirts and that sort of stuff is a rip off? But as long as it doesn't overshadow the real reason why people are there ad there is no pressure on people to buy this stuff. I'm OK with it. $2,000 might sound like a lot of money? But looked at as part of an almost $20,000, it really isn't. It doesn't cover what the Council could charge for the use of the camp and the buildings. I don't think Councils should profit from the cost of the Training. But I do think we the volunteers do need to be fair and be aware of what all the costs are. These at times are not always clear. Life would be a lot easier if the BSA method of accounting wasn't such a jumble. When everything is open and clear most of the volunteers I know really don't have a problem paying their own way. Ea.

I'm not an attorney. I don't work and never have worked for an insurance company. A lot of this stuff is way beyond my understanding. I think many of us have heard the horror stories about people being sued. I think for me, that if I were to dwell on this for too long I'd be so worried that I wouldn't bother getting out of bed in the morning. So what is a working stiff like myself to do? Not getting out of bed isn't really an option! All I can do is use my best judgment and take as much care as can be reasonably expected. Sometimes this does mean having to use tough love and I come off looking like the bad guy. But the truth is that when I tell someone that they can't do something it is more about my concern for them than anything to do with any sort of liability. Working in a jail, you can imagine how many "Nuisance" law suits are filed by the inmates. I don't work in that area but it seems to me most never ever seem to go very far. I've been in Scouting for a very long time and have met a lot of Scouter's. So far other than one real twit who broke just about every rule in the book, tied scouts to a tree and did a weired initiation ceremony for which he ended up in jail for. I have never met a Scouter who has been sued. (The BSA settled this one out of court.) Eamonn.

I have never seen in any BSA publication that a COR can not also serve as a District Chairman. I tried to see or find where there might be any real conflict and so far haven't been able to find one of any real substance. During my term as District Chair. I really tried to get the COR to attend the District Meeting. I didn't have much luck and failed. My great hope is that you will do a better job than I did. Without wishing to pat myself on the back. I did have a lot of luck with bringing local Scouts and Scouting into the community and making people aware that Scouts were alive and well in our area. I was blessed with having a wonderful Lady who worked tirelessly ensuring that the local media covered Scouting events. The Advancement Chair.Had local community leaders sit on Eagle Scout BOR. The Membership Chair. Had all the School Superintendents on the Membership Committee and the Finance Committee was stacked with leaders from the business community. I like to think of myself as being a "Hands On Scouter"?? Someone who likes to get down and dirty with the youth members. But when it came to being the District Chair. I seen my role as helping to develop the District Committees and reach the goals that Districts need to reach. Unless the CO that you are the COR for has a real issue with the BSA. (Something big; not the design of the patch for the next Camporee!) I think that as long as your happy wearing both hats, it shouldn't be a problem. Good Luck. Ea

Thinking for yourself? It's worth remembering that some people, especially youth members don't always get that many opportunities to think for themselves. Adults sometimes allow people like their boss, their spouse, their co-workers to tell them what to do, how to do it and when to do it. Youths face even a longer list of people telling them. I think that there is a big difference between "Thinking for yourself." And "Following Instructions." Very often when people have a problem with following instructions the fault is with the instructions or how the instructions were communicated. For example asking a PL to find a good place for the Patrol Camp site is a lot different than telling the PL to set up camp over there. "Over there" might be a place that is filled with ant nests. A good way to start to get people to think is by asking (Never Telling!). Then keep asking questions. Such as "What do you think?" "Why do you ..." The real trick is doing this so that they "Buy into" what you kinda thought anyway. But being the good leader that you are, you will of course keep an open mind and be willing to accept that what they want to do or the way they want to do it, just might be better that what you came up with. A great tool in helping to get people to think for themselves is reflection. Done right it really do a lot. To-day at work after lunch I got the report from the kitchen. It showed that we had 200 portions of breaded fish left over. 200 is a lot. I met with the guy who was in charge of the fish and said that I thought that 200 portions left over was a bit too much. Being as we have turkey chili for supper and turkey chili isn't a big hit, I know that the staff will eat most of the left over fish. (They like breaded fish.) I thought about what I'd done. I had informed the fish cook that the population was down. I mentioned that I'd never seen it as low. I'd told him that we only had 898 inmates and it wasn't that long ago that we'd had over 1,000. I had told him not to cook all the fish. We had 330 pounds 1,320 portions. He did as I asked and only cooked 290 pounds, 1,160 portions. I was at fault for not telling him exactly how many to cook. The fish comes in pre-cooked and only needs to be brought up to temperature. It takes about ten minutes in the oven. I asked him how we might prevent having so much left over? He didn't seem to have an answer. I asked what time he'd cooked it at? He said that they had started about 08:30 and cooked it all. Then the his light went on! He came up with the idea that maybe not cooking 1,160 portions all at the same time and batch cooking it would be the way to go. I of course could have told him that. But it was better that he came up with it himself. Now he has gone away not thinking that I'm some smart Alec and the chances are that he will remember this because he came up with the idea,rather than me telling him what should have been done. When you meet with your PL's you might want to let them know what the task at hand is and then ask them how do you think we should go about doing this? When the task is completed ask them again "How did it go?" and "What do you think we could have done better?" Rome wasn't built in a day. -Trying to get people who have never really done anything but as they have been told is at times an uphill task. But the payday at the end is well worth it. Ea.

83Eagle, What Committee member positions are filled? Is there a Committee? Back when I became a CM, the Pack didn't have a Committee. Before I came on board, the CM was very much a one woman show. She called meetings when she felt there was a need and organized fund raisers when she wanted. -Which in my opinion was all to often! But that' another story. The Pack had been around for a very long time, chartered by the local R/C Church which I attend. As with many R/C Churches Parish Priests come and they go. Some are really into Scouts and Scouting (Like the fellow we have now.) While others seem to not really understand that the Pack is as much part of the Church as the choir or they just don't care. I liked the PP we had when I became CM, but he wasn't interested in any of the youth programs and couldn't care less about the Pack. The COR was a nice fellow, he was one of the leaders of the church youth group. He had at one time served as a Webelos Scout Den Leader, until his son quit Cub Scouting. Sadly he had only ever served under the out going CM and thought that the way she did things was the way things should be done. Then along came me! I very much wanted to do things by the book and before long we were having monthly leaders meeting. I recruited all the committee members. That first year we went through 3 Committee Chairs. But we pressed on. By the end of year two we had a a great set of Den Leaders and a working Pack Management Committee. The Pack grew and we became the model for other Packs in the District. I had a great ACM who wanted to be CM. I was asked to serve as District Commissioner, which I did. Much as it might pain me to admit it. The new CM did a better job than I had. His style of leadership was .. A little more regimental than mine. But the Pack continued to grow. More Dens, more Den Leaders and a wonderful committee. The new CM moved on to Boy Scouts, resurrecting the Church Troop that had been dormant for a good many years. His ACM took on the Pack. This new CM did a fair job. But soon the leaders meeting and the Pack Management Committee became one meeting with only about half the Den Leaders and half the Committee attending. In time he moved on to the Troop. The new CM was a lovely Lady, but soon things went back to what they had been before. - Her One Woman Show. Things really fell apart when she and her husband split and she quit. There was no Committee. I met with the person who was listed as he Pack Chair. She said that she'd been told that she didn't have to do anything. The Pack which once had almost 100 members has now folded. I was in better shape than you are! At least I didn't have anyone in my way when I went about starting a Pack Committee. If I were you I think I'd call the District Commissioner and set up a meeting with him and the Unit Commissioner, if you have one. The Commissioner Staff are there for situations like this and with any luck they might be able to sort things out. Good Luck. Eamonn.

83Eagle This kinda situation happens a lot. Some Packs are happy with it. As I read what you posted a couple of things hit me. 1/ Where is the CO? Maybe you might want to give the Executive Officer a call and meet with him and explain the situation? If possible having an experienced member of the Commissioner Staff might also be a good idea. My thinking is that all too often the Charter Partner has no idea what s going on and even less of an idea of what should be going on. This can be especially true if things have gone on the way that they have for some time. With any luck the CO might be able to find a nice way of allowing the Committee Chair to remain as COR but have him step down from the Chairman position. 2/ The other thing that hit me was that maybe? Just maybe you are rushing things a little? If this is the way things have been done for a while trying to bring about change overnight is one sure way of upsetting someone and cause disharmony among the adults who serve the Pack. Maybe if you slow things down a little and find ways to work with this Chair. He will either come around or step down? Please don't feel that you have to jump through hoops just because the Council wants something! Remember they are there to serve you, not make your life more difficult. Ea.

Eagle007, I can't help but feel that maybe you are being a little bit too harsh on units that opt to do their own thing. I know some really outstanding Troops who don't use Council Camps. Some do it because they can take their Scouts away for a week for a lot less than what the Council charges, some just like to not camp in the same place every year. Out of Council campers make up about 10% of the campers that use our Council Summer Camp each year. No one ever seems to mention that these campers are being in any way disloyal to their home Council. Ea.

We have a 3 year term in place for the District Chairman. Of all the positions I've held District Chair. was the one I was most happy to get out of. As a rule I'm not that sold on term limits. While I know and am aware that people do get stale and worse still some get to thinking that a position is theirs and the sky will fall if they ever give it up. For the most part my feeling is that if someone is doing a good job? Why change just for the sake of change. Having a change at the top (District Chair.) Does mean that a lot of the time, a new Chairman will want to make changes and ask the members of the various committees if they are willing to continue to serve? This of course opens the door for anyone who might be looking for the opportunity to get out to go, without feeling they have let the side down. If a Committee Chair of one of the various committees is really doing what they are supposed to be doing, they are surrounding themselves with people who they have trained to do the task at hand. A lot of the time these workers also hold other positions and they are unwilling to give up their registered position in order to take on a District position. Ea.

SeattlePioneer, In the Council I serve,most times a quick call to the Council Registrar is all that is needed to get the monthly Membership Reports. Back when I was District Chair. I was focused on Quality District. The report after all the Charters were in gave a true picture of where we really were with membership. That is to say how many members we had lost from the number posted at the end of the year. There is a lot of information that might be useful for DE's. I know for a number of years here in the NE.Region there was a Membership Drive that ended sometime in the summer, with prizes for the professional staff. I never paid too much attention to that! My goal as DC was to try and ensure that we ended up plus one in each program area. While the reports for the rest of the year were nice, they really didn't change that much until Fall when we had School Nights. Or until after the crossover season was done. From then until the end of the year or whatever date National set as the end of the year, I watched these reports like a hawk. We are a small District. Most years we "Lost" about 250 Cub Scouts. -Some crossed over to Boy Scouts (Normally about 70) and some just quit or maybe never really joined. (The reports only show paid memberships and once the fee is paid they are a member for a year.) We as a rule lost about 100 Boy Scouts, but counting the 70 New Boy Scouts we got from the Crossover. We needed 31 more Boy Scouts. A good School Night brought in about 125 -150 new Cub Scouts. Leaving us to find about 100 more Cub Scouts by the end of the year. This was all very do-able. With 16 Troops each Troop only needed to recruit a couple of Lads and with 20 packs, each Pack only needed about half a dozen or so Cub Scouts. We always seemed to have problems with new units and Venturers. Years back we had a DE who would put pressure on Troops to sign up their older Scouts and start a Crew. But these "Venturers" Never really did any real Venturing so I found it to be dishonest. jhighscoutdad Thinking about the Key 3 being focused? Back in the time when I was a Key 3 member. We were fixated on both Membership numbers and FOS amounts. Because of this we were able to make Quality District nine out of ten years. The year we didn't make it we missed the Cub Scout goal by four Cub Scouts! I should add that we were able to have the FOS goal made into a total amount. That is not 3 goals: Family, District, Community. Just a FOS goal, this meant that we were able to focus on the Community goal and not rely so much on the Family FOS goal. I'm not sure why? But we never seemed to have a problem with the popcorn goal. It just seemed that every year out of nowhere one family would really go to town and sell a few thousand dollars of the stuff. All of the goals do end up being dependent on Membership. The more members you have the more popcorn sellers you have, the more families that support FOS and the bigger the impact you have in the community. Of course having someone on the District Committee who is able to ensure that Scouts and Scouting is covered in the local press is a big help. Ea.

For me, I found that sitting down and coming up with a Parent Information Packet helps me ensure that I have all my ducks lined up. You might want to work on this with the Troop Scribe. Listing what you plan to do each day at what time you plan to do it. (I as a rule break each day down into 3 parts: Morning, Afternoon and Night.) A copy of the menu for each day seems to put new parents minds at ease. - I'm not sure why? A list of personal gear for each Scout. Include all the medical and permission forms and the payment dates. (When the deposit is due and when the final payment is due) Also include what happens to money paid in if someone should drop out. Will they lose part of their money? Making this clear from the get go can save a lot of ill feeling. A list of the adults who are attending and what specific job or area they will cover. Who is in charge of First Aid,Food, Equipment, Transportation. If possible the SM should try not to be in charge of any specific area. He should however know what's going on. I normally give my idea about how much spending money each Scout might need. Only because parents ask. I also make it clear that the Troop is not responsible for the loss of personal gear which includes things like DVD players cell phones and the like. I find that explaining that these are easily lost stops most of them from coming! Very often when I sit down with this Information Packet I will find things that I have missed or things that I need to attend to. Please don't tell anyone but in all the years I've been doing this we have yet to ever stick to the posted menu! Something always seems to come up. I of course defend this by telling everyone that I'm flexible! Still it's important that you don't allow this packet to end up being the "Gotta Do This". A well produced packet can also be a great item to use for stirring up interest in the trip for anyone who is sitting on the fence and maybe even help recruit some new Scouts. Good Luck. Ea.

Couple of thoughts. Membership is and should be important to all of us. However,it seems nothing other than maybe finance(Money) seems to upset the volunteers in my neck of the woods as someone harking on about numbers. Yes! For my sins, I've heard "All you care about is numbers". Which I do have to admit hurt me when it was said. Most times when we look at Membership we will find that success breeds success. Well run units with energetic and enthusiastic teams of adults who get on well together and work well together while offering a great program tend to retain and attract more youth members. In just about any BSA publication, it states that recruitment is a year round activity. While I don't know of any unit that is lightly to turn a new member away. For the most part the local units tend to rely on the Fall School Round-UP (mainly for Cub Scouts. But we do have a few SM's that go into the Schools and do "Boy Talks" To the 5th and 6th Graders). Troops mostly wait and see what this years Cross Over brings. Troops that share the same CO and the same number as a Pack expect the boys who will be crossing over to join that Troop. Most times that is what will happen. There are one or two Packs where there is no Troop. But it seems that there is some unwritten whatever you want to call it that the Lads from these Packs do tend to join one particular Troop. We have had situations where the Webelos Scout Den Leader for some reason doesn't like or get on with the Boy Scout Leaders and has done what he or she can to herd the Lads who are crossing over into the Troop which he or she thinks is better or best. As a rule the Troop where their son will be going. There are lots of reasons why a young Lad might not want to Crossover and join a Troop. We have one very successful Pack in an area where Midget Football is very big and the Troop has a hard time recruiting these Lads. Some Lads are just not interested in being Boy Scouts. My Brother-In-Law's son just had no interest in becoming a Boy Scout, even though his Dad is an Eagle Scout and served as a SM for a good any years. It just wasn't his cup of tea. Even though his Grandmother pushed and prodded it just wasn't to be. The Key 3 will of course always keep an eye on membership. Back when I was District Chairman, I had monthly reports from the Council Service Center sent to me, which I then forwarded to the District Membership Chair. These reports were very useful after rechartering. We had a very clear picture of how many Scouts had left the program and we used this number to set the membership Goals for the coming year. Our Troops recharter after the Crossover Season, so we can see who went where. The reports are also very useful after the Fall Round-Up. I'm not really sure if a Commissioner or the Commissioner Staff have a role to play in the Tracking of Membership? I can and do see that Membership plays a vital role in the health of a unit. So as I see it the Commissioner Staff should be looking after the units. I have seen Troops where all the members are older Scouts who don't seem to want or make new Scouts very welcome. Some SM's seem OK with this. (Of course the day will come when it bites them on the tail!) We have Troops that do a wonderful job of having Lads crossover and manage to keep them until about age 14 and then when they reach 14 they are gone. Because they seem to remain strong, thanks to large numbers of crossovers no one seems to notice that they are not retaining the older type Scouts. My feeling is that is is the area where the Commissioner Staff can try and bring about change. As we all know the three things that attract and retain lads into Scouts and Scouting are: Program, Program, Program. Ea.

"This is not a place for Woosies" Can't help but think how much "Safer" and more kindly things are now, than they were a few years back. Still, reading what you have written before hitting the submit tab is always a good idea.(Might even try it -One day!) Ea.

Are things really this bad? No! Most of us do what we do because we enjoy doing it. If we didn't we more than lightly wouldn't keep on doing it. Being around a group of young Lads who are having fun and at times even learning something tends to make even the most miserable old goat smile. Part of the problem might be? That many of us Forum Members, at times feel we have to have an opinion. Even if deep down what is being talked about is something that we really couldn't care less about. Of course there are some of us who want never ever to miss the opportunity to hark on about our pet peeve. -Whatever that might be. Some of us are not as good at accepting change as maybe we should or ought to be and to this end we hark on about how much better things were in the past. This might or might not be true? I know a good many people who think or at least say that the best times were living through the Great Depression or when they were in the armed forces during WWII. Now and then some of forget that not everyone who posts here is not as deeply involved as we might be. This happened a while back. Someone, whom I took to be the mother of a new Scout asked a very simple question about the correct positioning of a patch. What followed was a discussion about who should or should not be telling her son where the patch should go and an even longer discussion about who should be sewing the patch on the kids uniform. All the poor Lady wanted to know was where to stick that darn patch! At times the best thing to do is just take plenty of NO notice. Ea

lilizard62, Have you sat down and ever had a face to face meeting with this Scout Executive? Or are you going on what others have said? Ea.

For many years I sat at our Council Awards Dinner and listened to all of the stuff (Activities and the like.) That the good people who were receiving the Silver Beaver, were involved with. Most times I was really taken back at how many other organizations and how much good work these people were up to. I often pondered "Where do they find the time?" Up until about five or six years back, when HWMBO became ill. I was deeply involved in Scouts and Scouting that I just didn't have the time for much else. In fact as I have posted in the past, I was guilty of putting Scouts and Scouting ahead of my family. Strange thing is that when I look at the people I was hanging out with, they were as deeply involved as I ever was and in some cases even more deeply involved. Much as I like to think that my cronies and self were doing good. The truth is that we did spend a lot of time just hanging out, telling and re-telling war stories, trying to set everything that is wrong just about anywhere to rights, especially within Scouting and the Council we serve. We rarely missed a opportunity to tease each other and pull each others leg. For a very long time, I made the mistake of fooling myself that the amount of time spend doing stuff for Scouts. (Even when I wasn't really getting anything done!) Showed my commitment. Then I was really silly and thought that the amount of time I was spending should act as some kind of a yard stick that I'd use to judge others. Over the past few years I've cut back a lot. I have got a lot better at saying "No" -" No I'm sorry I can't do ..." Or "No I really just don't have the time." The "No" Word was something I used to have a hard time with. Life has gone on. The last Jamboree came and went, somehow they managed to pull it off without me having to be there. I thought that I'd miss being at the Jamboree, but I didn't. Wood Badge courses have been held and gone very well without any input from me. Maybe the District isn't as big membership-wise as when I was around? Maybe the community FOS campaign isn't bringing in as much cash? But much as I'd love to say that everything is falling apart without me. The truth is that life goes on just fine. I know that now that I'm not doing as much as I used too. I don't have the same passion that I used to have. I think that maybe I'm a little more open minded than I used to be. I now can even see that at times the BSA isn't always right! (Lord Help Me!). I can even see that at times the organization that I love dearly is very "Full of itself". I do of course have a lot more time and I'm getting really good at doing nothing! While enjoying it. I like the idea that after neglecting my wife for so long that I'm at long last making amends. I have noticed that what's on the telly seems a lot more interesting, when you know that your not going to be home, than it does when you are home. Ea.

My Housemaster was a Welsh International Rugby player, also our Games-master. He volunteered me to be Hooker on the House and school team, also played soccer (Left Wing) Cross Country running. (On the House and School Teams). Played cricket on the House Team. Also tried Field Hockey, Horse riding and golf. I enjoy table tennis and tennis. In fact won a scholarship for lessons at The Hurlingham Club. Which was really kinda neat as a lot of the professional tennis players practiced there while Wimbledon was going on. I got to meet Borg, who was about the same age as I was then. Ea.

It is always a shame when, for whatever reason adults who have taken the Scout Oath don't live by it and sometimes end up setting a very poor example to the youth that they are supposed to be serving. I don't think I'm that very different from most other Scouter's? I have some very close Scouting friends who I enjoy working with and don't mind going the extra mile for, in order to help them as much as I can Sadly there are a few Scouter's who just get up my nose. I know and am aware that a good deal of who is at fault is me. I'm the only person who can allow people to get up my nose or rub me the wrong way. Still no one ever said that being an adult leader in Scouting was ever easy. Working with and going the extra mile for people you get along with and like is easy. Trying to get along with the people who get up your nose? Takes a lot more effort and really tests your commitment o the Scout Law and Oath. Having served as District Commissioner and District Chairman, I have had the misfortune of having to try and sort out situations where adults just can't play nicely together. In most cases everyone thinks that they are free from fault and any sort of blame. All too often the "Real" Issue whatever it might have been gets lost in a lot of unnecessary history. -Stuff that happened in the past has been either dealt with or long forgotten is brought up and rehashed. As a rule my first question when dealing with situations like this and when dealing with difficult people is: "What Do You Want And What Are You Willing To Do To Get It?" Most times the person doesn't know what it is they want and without that also have no idea of what to do to get it. Sure there are some who want to try and ensure that they get their pound of flesh. This sometimes happens when the situation is within the unit. One person or one group of people end up leaving the unit. Rarely if ever does anyone have their membership in the BSA revoked, just because someone or maybe the person is unable to get along with someone from another unit. -It just don't happen. What more often than not happens is that the two parties are brought together and with the help of a unbiased person, they are asked to deal with the real situation, trying to iron out any misunderstandings and everyone is reminded of the Scout Oath. Sometimes this works! Sometimes the best that can be reached is an understanding that they don't have to work together or be friends, but they do need to not go out of their way to harm or hurt the other. Of course sometimes, someone gets so upset that they quit and we lose a volunteer who could have made a difference in the life of a kid. -That's always a shame. Ea.

I think as long as you can get someone who is good at something, it can be offered as a Hands On Training Session. For my job, I trained to be a First Aid Instructor. Not sure why? But the state paid for me to be able to teach Wilderness First Aid and Pet First Aid?? It is with the American Safety and Health Institute, because the courses they offer tend to be a lot cheaper than some of the other courses that are available. Setting up the Council I serve as a Training Center really wouldn't be that hard or that expensive. For my other sins!! I'm also a good cook (Certified Executive Chef.) Along with being a Dietitian. So I know a fair bit about food. At camp I enjoy messing around with ideas that make cooking real food a little easier for the people (Scouts) who have to cook it. I've become a real expert in things you can cook in a Roasting Bag. The idea behind the Powder Horn course was a good idea. That being to introduce adults to activities that are available near to where they live. I'm blessed that I live in the Laurel Highlands. The opportunities out there for outdoor activities are almost endless. We have some wonderful State Parks, White Water Rafting, canoeing, hiking, biking. Nature trails. In fact almost anything you can think off I think I can find. Still, so many of the local Troops seem happy to just run with the same old same old. Even if you have never tried any of this stuff, finding a local expert isn't that hard. If I were to offer a supplemental Training course I'd love to offer one in Imaginering. Have leaders look at the basic skills that Scouts should learn and should be good at then look at "Out of the box" ways of covering them. Some ideas are so simple. - Who ever said that a Nature Hike can't be done at night? How many Scouts can make their own compasses? When was the last time they cooked in a Hay-box? What about a hike using back bearings? As to why I didn't invite youth members to the Pioneering day? The day came about after a Outdoor Training Weekend. A good many of the leaders had just moved from Cub Scouting to Boy Scouting. Some of these guys were having problems with even the most basic of knots. I didn't want them to in any way feel un-easy or give them the opportunity to hide behind youth members who might have been proficient. The big problem with any training is not so much what it's about, but finding a good time when to hold it. Scouts and Scouting makes so many demands on the adults involved and their families. I do see why anyone might not want to give up any more time for something that they might never use. Ea.

Have to admit that I find people who preach at me and go out of their way to dig up rules and the like, do tend to get up my nose. Worse still is when they are wrong and there isn't a rule! Seems to me at times, that some people are not happy unless they are making others unhappy. To date I have yet to get involved in Paint-Ball or Laser Tag. I have helped organize water fights, snow ball fights and wide games with flash lights. So for me, I don't see any real need to do the laser or paint ball thing. I'm very much aware that some kids and young adults are into this. In fact I know one Sea Scout who carries his paint ball gear around in the trunk of his car. I suppose if you are into paint ball you never know when the urge for a quick bout might hit and he needs to be ready? A few of the places that used to offer paint ball in the area where I live have closed. I'm not really sure why? But kinda think that the paint ball craze is starting to wear off. I of course might be 100% wrong. Pioneering is a Scout activity that I have always loved and even if I say so myself I'm very good at. I have been an adult leader involved with Scouts for some time. I enjoy the Scouts I work with and have worked with. I also care very much for them and about them. While there is some risk in just about everything we do. I hope that I would never place the Scouts in my care in any real danger. Their safety and their well being is always first and foremost. As for the " Though Shalt Nots..." I think a lot of the time it's not so much " Though Shalt Not" As Though don't know how to. Maybe because of what is seen as too many obstacles, rules or regulations? Leaders don't have the real know how to train the Scouts how to do this kinda stuff in such a way as to eliminate a good deal of the risk? Or maybe just messing about with rope and a block and tackle has been replaced with activities like paintball and laser tag? Means that no self-respecting monkey would risk his neck setting foot on a monkey bridge that hasn't been built correctly. A few years back I took a group of adult leaders to our local scout camp site for a day of pioneering. We had a wonderful day building towers, bridges, gateways and floating flagpoles. Each of them said that they couldn't wait to get back to their troops and do this stuff. I offered to help. So far no one has asked and as far as I know the Troops have yet to start enjoying Scout pioneering. What a shame. Ea.

I kinda skimmed over the plan. I was pleased to see that a good friend of mine was involved with it. But when all is said and done these things are little more than a "Wish List". You only have to look back at the last one to see that. Ea.

While there are Explorer Posts that work very closely with groups like Law Enforcement and Health Care with the blessing from the unions involved. I can see that a good many unions might have a problem working with the BSA some of the polices that the BSA has in place. Exploring doe not have these same polices. Ea.

"over da years Scouter.Com has slipped toward this sort of "creeping moderator rules" stuff," Over the years there have been times when things have got a little out of hand. At times there has been threads that have been started which seem to me to be more about "Rubbing someones nose in it." More than anything else. As far as any kind of "Push Back"? I know that I can put my hand on my heart and say that as far as I'm concerned this hasn't had any effect on me. The site owner selected the group who now serve as moderators. Lord knows that we are in no way perfect and we do at times mess up, both as moderators and as forum members. Still we do what we think is best and at this time you are stuck with us. Just as the site owner asked us to serve, he is free to ask that we step down. The inmates in the jail where I work have all the time in the world to find loop holes in the rules and polices that are in place. Or push it so that they are so close to crossing the line, that even without doing so, it becomes obvious what their intent is. While I'm willing to admit that I might be wrong. I can't help but feel that is the intent of this thread. Am I impressed about how clever it is? NO! From where I sit it just seems like yet another "Bash the moderator" thread. They seem to pop up every few months and serve no purpose what so ever. Ea.

Not to change the subject, but.... Can't help thinking that we really need to think about a more diverse group of DE's. Ea.

"Ability to interact with youth." ? Why? Ea.