Eamonn

I seem to remember that some years back there was a thread that got kinda big. - Not as big as the Eagle Problem thread, but it was up there about cooking with red wine at camp. A week or so back there was a mention in another thread about sins. One sin I have carried with me for over 40 years is that when I was a little Lad, while serving as an alter boy, I sneaked (Stole!) a drink of the communion wine. (At that time it was very rare for R/C's to have wine at mass and this was of course before the Mass and it was still just wine!) I don't think I was that bad of a kid. Heck! How many bad kids were serving as alter boys? Still the temptation was there and I fell for it. I do enjoy the odd adult beverage. Tonight I'm planning on having some New Zealand mussels cooked in white wine. But there is a time and a place for everything. Sure it might seem sad that your Coq au Vin can't have the "Vin". But there are lots of other good things you can make without running the risk of having kids like I once was maybe getting their paws on in and sneaking some. Also I'm not sure about how things are in Ohio? But here in PA alcohol is not allowed in any State Parks. Our Council Camp is in a State Park. The Rangers don't see cooking wine or beer for the worlds greatest chili as being any different than any other wine or beer. I suppose some might want to argue that the BSA has in bold print "The Boy Scouts of America prohibits the use of alcoholic beverages". And that this isn't really a beverage. But I'd play it safe and leave the booze at home. Ea.

Back when I was a very young SM, the District had a lot of District competitions. I really wanted the Troop to win as many of these as we could. I used the PLC almost like a radio. I told them what we were going to do and they relayed the message back to the members of their Patrols. We did well at winning. Winning helped us attract new members. The Troop grew. It took me a long time to work out what I was doing (Or maybe that should be what I wasn't doing?) Was not really Scouting it was just my ego at work. For now as a UC I'd be happy that there is a unit, happy that they are doing something and that there is people interested in what is going on. Maybe you could bring up some of the events that are open to Ships? Having the adult leadership just sit and talk with some of the old timers at maybe the winter training weekend? Or attend the Regatta? Will in time open their eyes to what being a Ship is really all about? Take it really slow, don't push or make waves! (Sorry! It was too easy!) Ea.

Well done !! Wear your beads with pride. Somehow I don't think that todays Wood Badge regalia will ever be that much of a collector item? But I have been known to be wrong. (Just ask HWMBO!) Ea.

Hey wouldn't it be great to be building a Jamboree Gateway if you were part of Troop 504? Just hang a big sign with 504 Timeout. Ea.

I can't but help feel that this jury gave the verdict that they thought would sit well with the adults. (Maybe the adults might have used their input?) I'm also left asking what would have happened if the verdict had been to remove the Lad from the Troop? I'm sorry, while I'm 101% for a youth led unit, having Scouts sit in judgment and pass sentence on other Scouts is not the way things should be done. Ea.

The best thing for cleaning cast iron pots and pans is a little cooking oil and some salt. Some people say to use newspaper, but I've used paper -towels or a cloth. Not sure why? As a Nipper I ate a lot of fish and chips that were always wrapped in newspaper. Ea

"Our advancement coordinator"? I really must be getting old! Never heard of such an animal! Back in my day the Scouts coordinated their own advancement. I'd really like to see a Troop where all the Scouts went "Out of house" to do most of the MB's. Ea.

"Moderators: what news?" None! Ea

Having the Committee deal with it? This of course doesn't have to mean the entire committee. Unless of course that's how they want to go about it. One Committee member could do a fact finding and report back to the full committee, allowing them to take whatever action they deem to be right. I'm still not getting this "Cop" thing! Having been the SM of a large Troop, with at times as many as 14 Patrols in camp. I of course was never able to be everywhere at once. I hold to the idea that if we want the Scouts to be Trustworthy we need to trust them. I also like to think that one of the big things a SM does is the training of the P/L's. There have been times when I've seen things not going as they should. A Patrol at sixes and sevens, arguing and not getting anything done. The temptation is for me at times too step in and take control of the situation. I, when this happens stop myself and let them work it out. Some might say this is a dangerous thing to do. But this is where the trust comes in, along with the training that the PL or SPL has had. Sure there have been times when things just don't work out and a couple of Scouts get into it.Most times the end result is more of a pushing match than what I'd call a "Real Fight". As SM I'm then faced with what to do? Nine times out of ten, just allowing a little time to pass and tempers to cool and then just talking with the Scouts is all that is needed. I've seen Lads who seemed one minute to be ready to fight. After a very short while be happy to work together and forget what the problem ever was. This is just kids. But when things take on a more serious side and it seems that no amount of talking or listening is going to work. The best thing is to remove the Scouts from the event. If possible have a Parent pick them up and then inform the committee. Only the Committee working with the CO can remove a Scout from a Troop. Having the committee take whatever action they see as fitting also means that the SM shouldn't be seen as playing favorites, or that he is picking on anyone. B-P talked about the SM being like an older big brother to the Scouts. This would be really hard if the brother was the guy who was dishing out the discipline and punishing the Scouts. I agree with what others have said about not using ADD or ADHA as an excuse for bad behavior. But just as we might train the Scouts in the Troop how to work with a Scout who has a physical handicap, we can too the best of our ability go about training our Scouts how to deal with and work with a Lad who is challenged this way. From what you have posted this Lads father seems like a nice fellow? I would bet without too much of a push his name could be given to the committee with a view to them inviting to serve the Troop as an ASM. eA.

"Or would you prefer the accused be brought before the whole committee, COR and all for questioning. Certaining a sub group of adults woul;d be prefered. Yes?" What I might prefer has nothing to do with it! I'm not on that Committee. The youth leaders are tasked with providing the program. The management committee takes care of discipline. How they choose to go about this? Would be up to the Committee Chair. If I were the COR I would really want to know what was going on, so that I could warn the CO of any lightly consequences. Re "Cops"?? Of course the adult leadership need to inform the committee of what they think happened. If the committee feel that they need more information, they can go about getting it the best way they think will work. They might just have the Chair go and talk with the boys involved one on one or they might ask the boys to attend a meeting and ask them there. Bottom line is that it is their baby. - Let them do their job and deal with it. I have to admit to not understanding what: "Certaining a sub group of adults woul;d be prefered. Yes?" Means?? Ea.

"This is still real time. I can push this on the PLC, hold an BOR Inquisition. Suspended him from campouts for six month, have him write a letter..... " The G2SS States: Adult leaders of Scouting units are responsible for monitoring the behavior of youth members and interceding when necessary. Parents of youth members who misbehave should be informed and asked for assistance in dealing with it. The BSA does not permit the use of corporal punishment by unit leaders when disciplining youth members. The unit committee should review repetitive or serious incidents of misbehavior in consultation with the parents of the child to determine a course of corrective action including possible revocation of the youth's membership in the unit. The role of a SM is to provide the program. No where is it laid down that a PLC should act as a judge and jury for a Scout. A BOR?? Not sure where that one came from? Maybe a Scoutmaster Conference to determine the facts. Strange thing about the stuff the BSA puts in their publications is that when followed. -It tends to work. Eamonn.

No matter what you do now it seems to me that it would kinda be like bolting the door after the horse has gone on his merry little way. If you have a working Committee? This might be the time to have them take a look at the G2SS, have them think what action or actions they are going to take should something like this happen again? If you don't have a working committee? You need to read the Guide. Spend a little while thinking what your role is? Who do you serve? Eamonn.

Again it's been a while! Here in the NE-Region. The NCS at Heritage Scout Reservation, used to start registration at about 0800. People coming from out of state, sometimes made arrangements to arrive the night before. Not much happened before 1000. The weekend was very full, in part because every effort was made to try and be done by about 1100 on Sunday. The participants were housed in huts (Houses really!) The entire weekend was spent indoors in a classroom type setting. So no special gear was needed, just an overnight bag with uniforms of course! People were invited to bring, patches from past daycamps, themes and theme related material from past daycamps, song sheets and copies of budgets!! Pen, paper. (They used to hand out a nice folder full of everything you needed to know about daycamp. So a 3 hole punch comes in handy.) If you have a small musical instrument that you can play? Your Den will love you. Your best bet might be to contact the camp for times and what sort of accommodation you will be staying in. If you need anything special like a special diet or a hook up for a machine at night you might want to let them know. Twocubdad, I was thinking back when there were two courses one for the program director and one for the daycamp director! Happy to hear that they have it down to 20 mins! With so many different councils doing it so differently it was kind of a waste of time! Ea.

" Going to be at NCS next weekend" It's been a while since I was involved in NCS. Back when I was, a lot of time was spent on the budget. As you can imagine different Councils go about things in different ways. You might want to go over the ideas that you have with the District Camping Committee. From what I have seen most Cub Scout Day Camp budgets seem to be based on what was charged last year!! That very often becomes "What we can get away with charging"! I have heard that some Councils expect to make money from these camps. I'm thankful that the Council I serve never has and the expectation was that we didn't lose money. Cutting costs can be done by looking at what crafts the Little guys are going to do? I have used the easy way out by just ordering stuff that was shipped in and taken the harder path of bugging everyone for everyday items that could be used for crafts (Pringle containers, the scoops used for washing detergent, coffee cans and the like.) I'll bet if you do a line by line budget you could do the meal and not have to increase the cost. But if you feel that you need to add a few extra bucks? I'd make a point of presenting the idea to the District Committee first. One thing that worked for us was a giant banana split. We used plastic pipe that was cut in half, supported with wooden holders. We used long tables but it could be placed on the ground. My first idea was to have the Cub Scouts and siblings not use any utensils or their hands! But I relented and gave everyone a plastic spoon! The parents seemed to get a kick out of watching their kids pigging out. For the parents night we had made arrangements to have First Aid demonstrations, with EMT's ambulances, fire trucks and a helicopter. The day before we had asked each family to wrap up a raw egg and mark it with their name. The helicopter took off and then threw all the packages out. Everyone the went to see if their egg had survived the drop. We ended the evening with a camp fire. Eamonn.

Putting aside the policy stuff for a minute! My big problem is that I never know what is right for other people. I do a good job most times of knowing what is right for me. A lot of the time things are easy for me, I don't have to worry about making the choice. I have never had to steal or cheat to get food. I'm not gay, so that for me is not an issue. The truth is that I have no idea what it is like to be gay. I really do try my best to live up to being a practicing Roman Catholic. However just before OJ was born a blood test showed something was wrong. We (HWMBO and I ) Had to go to a hospital in Pittsburgh for a special test and genetic counseling. Waiting from Friday till Monday was the longest weekend ever. I was faced with what to do if the child we had wanted was going to be born with something wrong? We were still early enough along that abortion was an option. I so desperately wanted a child that I was not willing to allow anything to get in the way. HWMBO was a little less certain. As things turned out she was a lot further along than had first been thought. But my view on abortion was really tested. While I still believe that this isn't something for me, I can see why it might be for others. I think for me it would be a sin, but it would be my sin. How it fits for others? I just don't know. I enjoy talking and discussing things with older youth. I try really hard not to preach. I'm more than OK to let them know that I don't have all the answers. I can and do explain where I'm coming from and why at times I seem to be contradicting, myself and my values. Many times I let them know that I think I have been blessed because something hasn't happened to me. I for example, never got into drugs. I wish I could say that there was some strong morel reason for this. But the truth is I was scared that I might like them too much. So I never went there. Because I didn't I never had to steal or do nasty stuff to feed a bad habit. I'm not clever or wise enough to know if being gay is a choice? I know that I enjoy the company of other men, I can look at a man or a young Lad and think that he is good looking, but I have never wanted to go to bed with another male and have sex with him. Much the same can be said about woman, I can look at them but I'm more than OK to remain faithful to my wife. At present I have a very effeminate gay male inmate working in my department. His name is Fred but he likes to be called Shirley. I have got used to having him and his ways?? Around and for the most part don't take any notice. I think that maybe he could or might be the poster child for whatever an "Avowed Homosexual" might be?? I really don't think policy or no policy that most of the boys I have known would ever want this guy as their leader. He is just so over the top. Still I'm not so sure that two guys who set up house together and do what ever it is that they do, would do any real harm. I know that when I'm dealing with Scouts the last thing on my mind is my sex life. Maybe after 27 years of being married myself and HWMBO are not so hot to trot as we maybe once were? But even when we were first married and I was a SM, I never wore my sexuality on my sleeve. Barry, I think you know how highly I respect you. I thank you for the kind words. However you post: "First, we have several families with gay parents in our District and they are active with their units. They just arent registered." I might not be the sharpest knives in the drawer, but this to me seems like a double standard? The take home message is very jumbled. If we fear that gay parents set a bad example? Allowing them to be active?? I'm not sure (Again!!) How I'd explain that one if asked by a 17 year old Sea Scout. I'm unwilling to put down or knock anyone who has strong religious beliefs. In many ways I'm happy for them, happy that they have found the answer that they believe in and can hold too. Eamonn.

I hold to the idea that we are a uniformed organization. But there are times when the uniform should be worn and times when maybe it's not the ideal thing to wear. The person in charge of the activity should find a way of determining this. Be it from past practices, input from the youth or just because he is the guy in charge! Once the decision has been made, the word needs to be put out so that everyone knows what to wear. No one would expect Scouts to go swimming in full uniform, I wouldn't expect Scouts to wear full uniform for a Klondike Derby, but I wasn't running the event! If the Scouts were not informed that there would be some type of recognition for being in full uniform and someone took it upon themselves to hand out awards for being in full uniform I can understand why some people were upset. Eamonn

Many of us involved with Scouting seem to have a problem admitting that Scouts and Scouting isn't seen as being "Cool" by many, especially by many youths who are not Scouts. We older guys tend to harp on about the things we do that are "Cool". I'm not really sure if discrimination might be a little bit too strong of a word? I love dogs, I really love my dogs. I would never harm or hurt any dog. At work I'm happy to share photos and stories of my dogs. Being as I work in a place where most of my co-workers are male and most of these tend to be ex-military bigger type guys, I'm not so sure if my dog was a poodle with a French cut, that I'd be as willing to share the pictures? Poodles aren't cool even though at one time they were used as hunting dogs for bears (believe it or not!) Things are changing. Our School District has a parent night each year for all of the HS sports teams. The parents stand on the field as their son comes out on the field as he runs out the announcer reads off a list of what clubs and the like the Lad is involved in, a good many of these Lads are listed as being Eagle Scouts. Maybe the fact that the head of the department sits on our District ESBOR's plays a part in this? We are fortunate in the area where I live that Scouts and Scouting is viewed as being a great organization, even people who are not and never have been involved tend to view it as being a good thing. I do not this might not be the case elsewhere. I think that we who are members do need to recognize that some of the things we do are not acceptable to others and that they are within their rights to prevent us from doing what they see as things that are wrong. Just as I would be unhappy about our local school district allowing a chapter of the KKK to use school buildings, the people who view the BSA as being anti-whatever?? Feel the same way. Eamonn.

I enjoy messing around with rope and line. The big problem with teaching Scouts knots is that we don't give the Scouts enough opportunity to use the knot for what is should be used for. I have lost count of the number of Scouts who have joined the Ship, who are "Knot-Challenged" but when the not only learn how to tie the knot they also get to use it. The knot takes on being something important and of use, not just something that was needed to be done to get it signed off. A few weeks back I was driving a van load of Sea Scouts on a fairly long drive. I was kinda worried as they were being far too quiet! (I know all about this trustworthy stuff! But I don't trust quiet.) It turned out they were all trying to make little Monkey Fists. The week before I'd visited the Ship and we made some heaving lines. Ea.

"would counter any possible verbal abuse," Oh Dear! When it comes to verbal abuse? I'm guilty! Have been known and will more than lightly continue to use. "Don't be a lazy little toad". "Engage brain before tongue" "Act your age, not your shoe size". " I had dark hair before you started to chart that course." "That knot wouldn't hold up my Grandma's knickers" "You can be replaced by a trained snake and he wouldn't need a lot of training." "I think he must have been frightened by a plumber when he was being potty trained." "Stop acting like a twit." Maybe there is something to this two deep stuff? Maybe these cute little fellows need to be protected from nasty people like me? Ea. ( By the way all the above have to be said with an English accent!)

"I've been hearing that our council is thinking about imposing a new ruling that adult leaders cannot have one on one e mails or phone conversations with youth as it violates the two deep policy." Man Oh Man!! Can we really get any more daffy??!! Ea.

Not sure how things work in your neck of the woods. In our area the Nominating Committee selects the District Chairman. The SE selects the DE. The Council Commissioner appoints the District Commissioner. The District Chair selects the chairmen of the various committees. He then works with these Chairs. To help ensure that there is a working committee. One reason for having a District Committee Meeting is to get all these various committees together and have them work in harmony. A new unit for example might need to have help from just about all the different committees. A long with the help of the Key 3. Units can of course tell the "District" to go take a hike. All the good people on the District Committee can do is make their services available. Kinda like he old saying about bringing a horse to water. Eamonn.

I do understand that most of the forum members are very passionate about scouts and scouting. Seems to me that a good many are what I might call "Traditionalists". Lately I have been wondering where we are headed? As a Lad I joined scouts because I liked doing the outdoor stuff. Another big draw for me was the freedom that scouting gave me, doing stuff without the supervision of my parents or school masters. Living in downtown London, just being able to get out of the city was wonderful. (Maybe that is one reason I now enjoy living in a very rural setting?) When I first became an adult leader a big part of what I wanted to do was to have the scouts I served share in the joy that I'd had as a scout. We never had any "Leadership Courses". Leadership was a skill we picked up by just doing what we did. Setting up and breaking down camps, cooking meals,pioneering projects, just the everyday run of the mill scout stuff. Our PLC meetings were more about planning events and activities that were going to be fun and a challenge. If we did teach Leadership it was all about "On the Job Training" - No fancy Buzz Words or acronyms. The main goal was getting the job done in as nice and as pleasant a way as possible. Sure if a P/L had set himself up as some sort of Bullying Dictator ways were found to bring him back down to earth. If a patrol was not getting what needed to be done, done. We found ways of helping the P/L do his job better. We used the Scout oath (Promise) and Scout Law to show that things went better when we all went out what we had to do using this code. I'm sure that deep down we knew that we were passing on what today would be called Life Skills. We knew that what we were doing in this Boy Sized World, would later in life serve the Scouts who were part of it. About the time I started as an adult leader youth clubs were starting to spring up. It seemed that each and every housing project had it's own youth club. These clubs never seemed to really know what to do with the kids that came along. They offered a warm, dry place for young people to hang out. Some did have little trips and tried working with local Troops to take the kids camping. I do really think that these clubs had the best of intentions, the people who staffed them did think that they were doing a lot of good. But to be honest for me, I didn't like the lack of any real structure or plan. They seemed to move from one idea to the next without any real sense of direction. One of my big fears is that this could be the path that the BSA is going to take. More and more we seem to be departing from the "Outdoor Stuff". - Leadership is no longer in that Boy Sized world, it has become the "Thoughts Of Chairman Blanchard". A skill that no longer happens in the "Real" world of a patrol doing things and accomplishing tasks. While we maybe are not as bad as the youth clubs that I knew of in the past, we do however seem happy to herd the Scouts we do have into a place that is warm and dry and offer classes in the Merit Badge of the Month, The Leadership Skill of the Day. We seem happy to moan and groan about i-pods, cell phones and the like but at the same time ignore the fact that our leaders no longer have the skills that they can pass on to the Scouts which will provide the Scouts the skills they need to get the most out what we could if we wanted offer them. In the area where I live we now talk about "Older Scouts" being any Lad who is 14! Talk to ex-scouts older than 14 and its not homework, sports or video games that enticed them away. They will tell you that they were bored. It's a sad day when we have to admit that we no longer have the skills or the imagination that will hold the interest of a 14 year old. Eamonn

"So what do you do when a troop has 33 adults and 16 boys?" 1. Get the best FOS Presentation you have and move in for the big bucks. 2.Read the long term Strategic Plan and where it talks about one million new volunteers wonder if this Troop is doing something right? 3.Say a prayer of thanks that you don't have to cook for this lot. 4.Go around camp singing "The More We Are Together, Together The Happier We Shall Be." 5. Wonder if this is some kind of plan that was hatched by their wives. 6.Sign them all up for the next Wood Badge course and order both Buffalo and Antelope Patrol flags. 7. Tell all the Scouts to hide and take bets on how long it takes the adults to notice that they are missing. 8.Buy the SM a very large adult beverage. He is a lot braver than I. 9.Sign them all up to serve on the Membership Committee. 10. Take Plenty Of No Notice. Each Troop does it's own thing and it just isn't worth losing sleep over. Ea.

Back in September the City of Pittsburgh hosted the G20 Summit. The city is waiting to get reimbursed for the money it paid out for the cost of extra police along with a long list of other expenses. Greater Pittsburgh Scout Council has already received $19,000 for providing accommodations for some of the extra police that were brought in. Not exactly sure how I feel about this? Part of me seems to think this is a long way from the idea of us doing a good turn. Part of me thinks that if the money is there and can be used to benefit our Scouts? We should be happy to take it. Was taking the money the right thing to do? Ea.

We talked about this some years back at the Conference on delivering commissioner service at Philmont. The feeling from most of the people there was that the Unit Commissioner is a friend to the unit. Sure he or she works with the COR and the CO. But each section has it's own problems, so having someone who has a deep understanding and knowledge of that section is more than lightly the best way to go. For problems that would need the involvement of the CO? This might be better if left to the District Commissioner or an Assistant.. Ea.