Eamonn

I'm very much with Beavah and what he posted. Even if I think he didn't asnswer what was asked! It seems to me that if the only reason for having a BOR is for advancement, that the SM should have noticed that the requirements had not been met and the Board should not have met. While once the Scouts were there rather than just saying this is a waste of time, the time could be spent as Beavah has posted. Now that everything is in order and ship shape the Board can and should meet again. Not meeting? Would send the wrong message to the Scouts, not just in Scouting but there is a Life Message in all of this (If a job is worth doing...) Ea.

"Wouldn't going to the Council President, by going over the DE head?" As volunteers we do not in way shape or form work for the DE. We do our best to work with them and partner with them to work toward the goals of the Council. As a member of the District Committee and the District Training Committee. If you are not the Training Chair, your first port of call should be to your District Training Chairman (Person.) If you are the Chair you report to the District Chairman. (This helps prevent DE's from doing what they think they want to do and keeps the lines of communication clear and in good order.) As it seems the problem here is both the DE and the District Chairman. You as a volunteer should address your concerns to the Council President. He should be meeting with the SE (Scout Executive) On a very regular basis. (Just as the DE, District Chair and District Commissioner should also be meeting at least once a month, if not more.) The DE works for the Council and reports to the SE. (Most Councils have other professionals with fancy titles that DE's report to. But the top guy is the SE.) A DE is very un-lightly to tell his bosses that he is messing up! If you were to go to the DE's boss? That really would be going over his head. Most of the professionals I have met, do not like it when the President is brought in. He after all has the Executive Board on his side and they were the people that hired the SE. Talking with a DE about his poor performance, is most lightly going to end up with him telling you either what you want to hear or him trying to shift blame onto others. Talking to anyone other than the Council President might be seen as gossiping. You have to know what you want? Know what you are willing to do to get what you want. The goal should be doing what is best for the Council and the District. If this DE is not doing a good job? Is unwilling or unable to work with and for the volunteers he needs to be trained, re-trained, cautioned, or thanked for his past services. DE's do not have the same goals as us volunteers. Chances are that in 3 years or so he will have moved on. While many of the volunteers will still be around. A good DE will see from the get go that working with and alongside the volunteers is the way to go and will result in his job being a lot easier, while at the same time his bosses will notice that he has a way of bringing out the best in the volunteers, which is his most important job. This being able to get he needed results while keeping the District Committee happy makes him look like a true professional. Sadly all to often volunteers in a District will moan and groan and walk away from serving the District, leaving it in shambles rather than do what is needed to sort things out. Please don't get me wrong. Nearly all of the DE's and professionals I have worked with have been wonderful hardworking people who really want to do a good job. I seen my role when I was District Commissioner and more so when I was Chairman as training them in how to do a good job while serving the Council and the District. We did have one young pup! A 23 year old know it all, who only lasted two years. He is now selling used cars. Ea.

Couple of things that stand out for me. 1/ A selection of a new District Chairman should be managed by the District Nominating Committee. The DE should have little or no say in this what so ever. 2/Where was the District Commissioner? 3/ Having served as a District Chairman. I was lucky to have a DE with whom I had a great working relationship with. I think the secret to good committee meetings is a good agenda. The agenda should be planned by the Chair with input from the DE and the District Commissioner. Having said that, very often a fixed agenda can work well. As long as the chairs in charge of the smaller committees (Camping, Training, Membership and so on.) Know what they are doing and are doing their job. I found that having the smaller committees meet and deal with what needed to be dealt with and then have that committee chair make a report to the District Committee worked best and did away with a lot of the stuff that wasted time. For example if the Training Committee were making plans for future Training's. They would meet decide the what, when, where and who. The Chair would try and avoid any clashes of dates and maybe move the training's around the District, so as to make it fair for everyone in the District. The committee would find the location and pick who was running what courses. At the District Meeting all that was needed was for the Training Chair to make a report of all this with little or no discussion. Having the Membership Chair. Who had no intention of attending any of the Trainings tell everyone that the dates didn't work for him? Was just silly and a waste of everyones time. 3/ If things are as bad as they sound? You need to talk to the Council President (In my book volunteers talk to volunteers.) I'm sure he can help with the selection of the next District Chairman, as this person will also serve on the Council Executive Board. The President might offer to send an experienced Board member to serve on the nominating committee and maybe attend a few District Committee Meetings (The District Committee is part of the Council.) 4/ You need to focus on what role is on the committee you serve. Most District Committees rarely if ever do stuff that requires a vote. The idea being that everyone knows what needs done and is tasked with ensuring it gets done. 5/ If the outgoing District Chair feels that he is unable to work with the present DE? That's up to him. What he does or doesn't do is his choice. I think I'd be bending the ear off the Council President in the hope that he would in turn bring this up at a Council Key 3 Meeting and bend the ear off the SE! Ea.

Some years back I was talking with HWMBO Grandfather. He was almost 90 at the time. He had worked as a butcher in the Company Store and later went on to be a funeral director. I asked what change he had seen did he think had the biggest impact. I thought he might say TV or some high tech whatever. I was a little taken back when he said "Frozen Food"! Thinking about it. I remember when I was a little fellow that my Irish Grandmother tried mailing a turkey that she had raised from her home in Ireland to our home in England. Needless to say the Royal Mail was none to happy. I don't have a crystal ball. Some of the changes that we have seen over the past few years, seem to have just come about with no one really taking much notice. It wasn't that long ago that people were complaining about how slow the BSA was to move with the times and embrace the computer age. Now it seems that everyone is moaning about on line Jamboree applications, but on line training seems to have been accepted fairly well. Scouts can get the Scout Handbook on their cell phones and at the next Jamboree cell phone recharging stations are going to be available The Apple i-phone seems to have set the standard for a new generation of "Smart-Phones". I'm wondering what the new i-pad will bring about? I feel sure that there are new ideas for this sort of thing that I haven't even dreamed of as yet, but maybe in five or ten years will be something that I will feel that I just couldn't live without! Scouting is becoming more and more high-tech. The materials that our Scouts wear, the tents they sleep in, the pots and pans they cook their meals in are a lot different than even the ones I used as a Scout. This means that I'm either getting very old? Or things have changed! This years Census will show that the racial make-up of the USA is changing. I believe that coming censuses will show even bigger changes. Scouting and the BSA will have to make some changes to accommodate these changes. I'm very worried about how we will go about paying off the great deficit that we now all face. I really do think that new and bigger taxes are something that is inevitable. These taxes will hurt the middle class more than anyone. As so many of the people who volunteer in Scouting seem to be middle class, this will have an impact. My hope is that Venturing undergoes a big overhaul and becomes more of an organization that takes on caring for others as it base. This will open the door for more and more young people to do good turns both here in the USA and abroad, in places like South America and Africa. We will remain a value based organization, with much the same methods as we have now. Sadly, I do think we have seen the peak as far as membership goes. Parents with young children are not going to have as much time to volunteer as people of about my age had. When they do volunteer, it will be to do a specific job which has a set time to it and then they will either move on to the next job in some other organization or take on another task with a clear start and end date. Old fogies who hang around forever (Like me!!) Will be a thing of the past. Where I work we are using more and more video communications for things like hearings, trainings and even inmate visits. The Commissioners have web-casts that can be downloaded to an i-pod. Maybe one day this will be how Round-table meetings are presented? Who knows? Maybe even Wood Badge at home in your PJ's? I think the Council and the Council Service Center will change a lot. The smaller Councils just will not make it and will fade away, as will the smaller Council Camps. Maybe we will only have Regional High Adventure bases? I really don't need anti-gravity boots, but socks? That's a different matter! Ea.

Not trying to change the subject or hijack the thread. I wonder if this "Craze" plays a part into why older youth(16+) seem to want too not be as busy and give into (Buy into??) such a hectic time? Or is it that over time parents kinda give up? Visit an elementary school on parents night and you will see parents lined up waiting for an audience with the teacher. By eighth grade there are no lines and the teachers manage to go home on time. Ea.

When I was at school in England all of our clothes had to have name tags on them. My mother spend many happy hours sewing these things on. For the Jamboree I recommended that all of our Scouts mark all (Yes all!) their clothes with a indelible marker. (Sharpie worked fine!) Socks on the sole part. Shirts on the tail. Underwear on the band. T- shirts at the bottom on the inside. Even with all of this at the meeting we had after the Jamboree tent mates were still returning each others clothes. Ea.

What can be done, isn't always what should be done. Your goal as a leader is to serve the Scouts. Which way is the best way to serve these little fellows? Is signing off on a whole bunch of requirements best for them? Or would they be better served if the build on their skills? Today at work we were talking about how so many of the inmates have no patience, they want what they want and want it now! Instant gratification? Feels good for a while, but learning and perfecting a skill pays bigger dividends. With a young Scout. I'd never opt for the short cut. It sends the wrong message. Ea.

"Me thinks you should start a committee devoted just to committee the other committees!" That of course in a Council would be the Executive Board and in a District, the District Committee. Ea.

Boy oh Boy!! This is a tough one!! Some thoughts. - Not in any real order. One of the most important things a SM can do is to know the Scouts he serves. Just about every Scout I've ever known wants to do something or is good at doing something. If the SM can find out what this is, making that Scout shine is the easy part. I have always seen my job as serving the Scouts. How a parent goes about raising their child? That's up to them. I'm never happy when I feel that I'm being pushed around or being forced into anything. The Scout belongs to the parent. I work for the Scout not the parent. Having said that a Scout does promise to "Do his best" I have no problem offering lots of opportunities for each and every Scout to take full advantage of everything that Scouting has to offer. Kids are really strange animals. I know I had one!! They will always do what you least expect them to do. OJ never really like school work. But he held the OA Vice Chief of Administration for 3 years and went on to serve as Section Secretary. Even though he is my son, I never knew he had such a deep interest in First Aid. (He is now an EMT with hopes of becoming a Paramedic) Most kids reach an age where they do what they are interested in, no matter what their parents have to say about it. All Scouts at some time or another do something that is worthy of recognition. Recognizing them keeps parents happy and makes the SM feel good -Along with the Scout! When parents get out of line. The SM should take them behind the woodshed and explain what Scouting is really all about. -It's not badges!! Sometimes it is worth reminding everyone that if we push to hard, we do more harm than good. I never really pushed my son to complete his Eagle. I think he holds the world record for being a Life Scout longer than anyone else on the planet! One reason he gave for not moving on was because the Troop he was in had a guy who had some fancy title (Eagle something or another!)Who tried to push him and like his old man, he doesn't like to feel that he is being pushed. Eamonn.

My main point in this thread was to show that I didn't understand how a Jamboree SM could "Run Off"?? With any of the money that Scouts attending the Jamboree had paid in. In a normal everyday Troop (Not a Jamboree Troop which might be termed as being a Provisional Troop). All money in the Troop accounts, could be said to belong to the CO. Money that is raised from fund-raising events, is raised in the name of the CO. Most of the units I have had any dealings with have for the most part free range about how this money is spent. If little Tommy sells hoagies. Some the money from the sale might end up in a "Scout Account" which is in his name. Different units have different ways of dealing with how money from fund-raising events are handled. If Tommy quits Scouting the money in this account, other than money he might have paid in, really doesn't belong to him. Most units I know of turn this money over to the Troop and it becomes Troop Funds. Some units do allow Scouts who move from one Troop to another Troop to take the money in their Scout Account with them. (Some don't!) In a Jamboree Troop there is no CO. Money raised by the Jamboree Troop is raised in the name of the Council. My thinking is that it is up to the Council to decide what happens to this money.Should a Scout change his mind about attending. They might well allow the Scout to move this to his Troop Account. I do see some problems with a Council cutting a check which would be made out to another non-profit organization. Or the Council might say that this money was raised for the Jamboree and as the Scout is no longer attending the Jamboree, he has no right or claim to it. Eamonn.

Not sure what happens in other Councils. When it is time for the Jamboree in the Council I serve. This comes under the Council Camping Committee, who pass it on to the Council High Adventure Committee. (Which is part of the camping committee.) A Jamboree Troop Committee is set up. This committee has people who have as a rule in the past been involved in Jamborees. These guys working very closely with the professional who is tasked with the Jamboree make all the important decisions about the Jamboree Troop. They select the Troop Leaders. Set the cost. Publicize the event. Organize the transport. Act as Equipment Quartermasters. Set dates and help organize fund raising events. I have served twice as Jamboree SM. I attended these Jamboree Committee meetings where I gave my input and made suggestions. My main job before the Jamboree was training the Scouts and getting them ready for the event. Most of the questions I got from parents seemed to be about uniform. I was always a little upset that I had little or no say in the selection of the Scouts who went to the event. We seem happy to go with a first come first served selection, that being whoever got the deposit in first was on the list and the late comers were placed on a waiting list. All money was paid into the Council Service Center. That is to say I never had any dealings with any cash. (I liked this a lot!) Other then the $500.00 that the Council gave me for emergencies, which I had to account for and return if there wasn't any need for it. All fund-raising money was turned into the Council Service Center. Scouts were free to choose if they wanted to be involved in the fund-raising events or not. I did use some of the Emergency money to buy extra ice and coolers, along with watermelons and pay for the Scouts fast food lunch on the Trip home. I tried to get receipts for all the money I spent, when this wasn't possible I turned in a hand written, signed receipt. I paid to attend both Jamborees and I paid for my son to attend one. This money was paid into the Council Service Center. When my son went as a staff member we send that money to National. While not a member of the Jamboree Committee the Council Registrar was the person who accepted all payments and money from fund-raising events and kept track of all the cash. I was more than happy not to have to deal with any money. In fact I some how managed to lose the receipts for four water coolers I bought (Sent a visiting parent out to Lowe's.) So I just kept the coolers for my own use and paid for them myself. I have never really kept track of the money I spend on Scouting. I'm not the sort of guy who if I'm with a group of Scouts and I want an ice cream, will not buy all the Scouts I'm with a ice cream as well. (That would be rude!) If a Scout who has signed up for the Jamboree has a change of heart and decides not to go, he will as long as there is someone to take his spot get his money back.(If no one takes his spot he will lose all money that he paid in.) We have never had to deal with what to do with money that came from fund raising events. I would think that as this money was raised in the name of the Council for the Jamboree it should remain in the Council and not be returned to the Scout. What do you think? Eamonn.

baschram645, Many Thanks! My Toby Trees are indeed Catalpas. Have to admit that they are not my favorite trees, they seem to be the last to get their leaves and in the fall the first to lose them. Mine are very big and dense, not allowing very much light to get under the branches. The roots, maybe because they are old? stick up above ground level, which is hard on the mower. I'm not sure how old they are. The last owner of where I live, was here for 42 years and I have been here for 23, before that I know that at one time the land was used to grow gooseberries. I haven't seen a gooseberry in years! Before that, I have been told that Henry Clay Frick used the land for his pit ponies. It is said that Frick treated the ponies far better than the workers who went down the mines. I think it's a little odd that with all the mining we had in this area, that there isn't more Irish families? We do have a lot of people of Slovak and Polish heritage. Ea.

"So...What's a Toby tree?" I never seen one till I moved to the U.S. I have heard that they also have an American Indian name, which I have heard, but sadly can't remember. They are big trees, with very large leaves. In late spring the have a white flower. The fruit looks like a giant green runner bean. Ea.

One good thing about the snow is that it has now gone and at least for me, I'm far more appreciative for the spring. I was a little worried that Dudley the Goldie pup we got last fall was getting so used too peeing in the snow that he might think that it would always be there. The dogs really seem to like Spring. Friday, the little Heinz 114 that walked in to our home a few years back, after living off the land for some time, checks out all the groundhog holes and covers every inch of the fence lines, looking for voles and mice. Ollie has a full time job chasing the robins. Sad thing is that they don't play fair. He is an English Setter, so when he goes into stalking mode he takes on the classic setter stance. Standing on three legs, With his left front paw raised slightly, his tail, which has a slight curl is stretched out straight. He moves very slowly, one careful step at a time, till he takes off running. The robins then just take off. All that hard work for nothing. The trees are just starting to sprout. Yesterday we seen two redheaded woodpeckers, hammering away. I'm not sure if they were looking for food or building a nest? The sound they make is nice after the eerie silence that surrounded everything when the snow was there. In one far corner of our property we have some wild turkeys.They really are magnificent birds. The pheasants are back again this year. I'd thought that the hawks had got them all, but I must have been wrong. I hadn't seen the owl that lives in one of the large Toby trees for a while but I heard him the other day. Of course the rabbits are out. I enjoy watching rabbits do there thing, but with the dogs there is little chance of that. Dudley is the laziest retriever ever. While Friday and Ollie are doing their thing he seems perfectly happy to just sit down and look like he is posing for a calender shot. If I remember to take a ball with us, he will chase it, then lay down and chew at it for a while. After two or three times he seems to get bored and doesn't even bother going after it. So I end up playing fetch by myself. While I pretend and try to kid myself that I don't really have any stress. I think that once the electronic gate at work closes behind me and I hear the inmates swearing at each other and I know that for the next eight hours I'm at risk from the unknown. This takes its toll. I'm so very grateful that I live where I do and have my good pals the dogs. Our daily walks are my stress release and my sanctuary from what is at times a messed up world. Sad thing is that later today I'm going to have to start the mowing. I can't wait till fall! Ea.

Talking with some of the guys who serve on our Council Camping Committee. It seems that we have less Scouts going to summer camp this year. No one is really sure what impact the Jamboree is having. The Council has 3 Troops going to the Jamboree. (We as a rule have about 1,100 Scouts at summer camp) There are a lot more people applying for Camperships this year. But this might be due to the fact that the Campership program has been better advertised this year. Ea.

I love my brother very dearly. I also liked his ex. In fact the last time I was in England, I took her to dinner. But when they were going through their divorce, I was very careful not to get involved or choose sides. I kinda feel the same way about this thread. Eamonn.

Hey Beav, Dem's Fighting Words. Just like the language we let you use, you guys took it and look what you did with it! However. I always liked the idea of a patrol living, cooking, eating and sleeping as one big happy family. Ea.

Kudu, Welcome back. I have always thought that when it comes to Patrols, UK Scouting did a far better job than is done here in the USA. (I might of course be wrong.) Back when I was a Scout, a Scout Leader and even at Wood Badge back in England, we used 8 man tents,(Normally with only six Scouts in a tent.)The tents were very expensive, even 25 years back they cost several hundred pounds.)These tents were of course Patrol tents. For hikes and that sort of thing we had smaller light weight tents. I never ever remember a Scout asking if he could bring his own tent. Maybe if Pint is looking in? He can tell us what they are using over there now? Ea.

Not sure if it's a sign of the times? Or back to this "Culture Thing"? Barry was a long from my home town, when I was growing up. Having only ever spent one night in Oklahoma City, I of course can't say much about what it was like. I do know it was a long way from down town London. I lived about a quarter of a mile from the river and about five miles from Buckingham Palace. My trips to the great outdoors were thanks to Scouts and Scouting along with summers spent in Ireland. My parents and I'm guessing Barry's parents didn't live our dreams for us, they gave us the time and space to live and explore these for ourselves. While of course my parents were always there for me. They were willing to allow me to sort things out for myself. They provided what I needed to "Get the job done". But made it very clear that I had ownership of the job or task at hand. An example of this is me playing rugby. I'm not and never have been very big. When I was 14 I weighed in at ten and a half stone. (147 Pounds) -Today I've grown a bit, I'm up to ten stone ten pounds (150 Pounds.) My Games Master was also my House Master. He also played rugby for Wales. For some reason he thought I made the ideal Hooker. The hooker is the little fellow in the middle of the scrum who is tasked with working the ball (Hooking) back to the rear of the scrum.) I kinda think I must have been the smallest Hooker in the history of rugby! I got the living daylights pounded out of every-time we played and even more so during practice! I came home with black eyes, a broken nose, black and blue legs and a couple of broken ribs. It stopped being fun, soon after I started to play. I wanted to quit, I wanted as far away from a rugby field as I could get. But quitting would entail telling Mr. Jones, my House Master. I was brave, but not that brave. I tried to have my parents write sick notes for me. But that just wasn't going to happen. They said if I really wanted out, I needed to talk with Mr. Jones. I played rugby until I went to college! Eamonn

I wasn't try to verse or reverse anything! Barry, who I really respect a lot has twice in the past few days brought up in not so many words that things are not what they used to be. He very well might be right? If he is? Who is to blame? I suppose we old codgers are! At some stage we need to be able to look people in the eye and tell them to get a life. When rules and regulations don't make sense or get in the way of us doing what we know to be right, we need to ignore them and err on the side of doing the right thing. I'm 101% for not going out of my way to upset people, but all this politically correct stuff seems to just get in the way. Here in the forum, some people do things a lot different than I might do. I of course think they are wrong, but if they really deep down believe what they are doing is the best for the kids they serve. I do have to respect them for that. (They are still wrong!) We are supposed to belong too and be leaders in a value based organization. I can't pass on values that I don't have. I refuse point blank to in any way intimidated from doing what I think is the right thing, just so I can appease someone else. At some time or an other we all joined this organization in order to have fun. Fun when we were kids, fun with our kids or fun because we are just big kids. We stuck around for as long as we have, because most of the time it is fun. We enjoy the people we serve with, the kids e serve bring us great joy and satisfaction. Most times when we are not having fun, it's because we have lost sight of why we do this and have allowed stupid pettiness or stupid petty people get in our way. When they do get in our way, we should be able to fall back on our values and see that we are right when we tell them to go take a hike. Eamonn.

rdclements, Seems to me that if you had your way the entire Troop would fold because everyone would had retired. This whole thing sounds like a storm in a tea cup. There is still something that seems to be missing? I feel that there is more of a history between this young Lad and the adults involved. Sure some adults have a hard time dealing with teenagers. Some kids don't get on with all the adults. But in the over 40 years I've been around Scouts and Scouting both the youth and the adults have found ways of keeping things from reaching a boiling point. Ea.

For the most part, when I think about myself, I think of myself as being fairly normal. I don't have any deep dark secrets. I think I'm very middle of the road on and about most things. It has been a very, very long time since I went out of my way to hurt or harm anyone. I think the last time was when I was about 14 and picked a fight with a kid at school. I have a few nasty habits. I smoke. I enjoy the odd adult beverage. I love to laugh and have fun. And yes I've been known to tell the odd off color joke! (Never to a Scout!) Maybe at times I'm guilty of being a bit of a raciest. Even though I try really hard not to be. Nothing really nasty, but I do think that the French are better cooks than the Italians. Most of the Hispanics I know, even the guys in jail tend to be really hard workers and a lot of the Englishmen I know can be a little stand offish. I was raised to say "Please" and "Thank You". I don't think twice about giving up my seat on a bus to a female or aged person. I still call nuns "Sister" and Priests "Father". I don't have a lot of time for things that I see as being a waste of my time. Or people or things I see as being petty. I do tend to work hard, play hard and I'm blessed that I have people who love me and allow me to love them. I love my wife. No one alive today understands me better than she does. She is my best friend, my co-worker and really is my partner. I love my son. At times I don't understand him! Why anyone would want to have rings through their nipples? Is beyond me! I think that his Mother and self did a good job raising him. Even if at times he is a little toad, he is a very loving caring person. I guess I've led a very privileged life. I've never known to be really hungry. I may have been upset when I was made wear my older brothers hand me downs. But I was always "Well Dressed" My parents made sure that I was given a good education. At times I questioned their blind faith in God and the church I was raised in. I however made sure that I raised my kid the same way. Because I thought it was the right thing to do. Some friends of mine have said I was a strict parent. Yes he had a set bedtime. I believe that adults need time without the kids being around. So it was as much for our good as his. He had things that he Had to do. His main thing as a little fellow was his school work, that included homework. He did his stuff around the house, mowing grass, running the vacuum. Since he was little everyone has remarked about how well mannered he is. I can hardly wait to become a Grandfather. My hope is that I'll have a lot more time for my Grandson than I had for my son. When my son was little I was busy trying to make a living. I'm willing to put up with all the new stuff, the high tech stuff,maybe even the changes in the culture. But I hope most of my values are installed in my Grandson. I hope he will play fair, work hard, care for others, be polite and of course love his old Grand Dad! Ea.

Many if not most of the Troops in the District I serve do not provide Troop tents. Every Troop I ave been involved with has provided the tents. I have to admit that I think the Troop Tents are as a rule the better way to go about it. Many of the tents I've seen at District Camporees are either something that was a Blue Light Special at K-Mart. Which might be ideal for a night out in the back yard when the weather is fine, but is of little use for anything else. (Trying to get a parent of a new Scout to spend the money to buy a quality tent would I think be a hard sell?) Or they are "Family Tents" with lots of bedrooms and awnings which require an 18 wheeler to transport them. Many of these have more zips than the early punk rockers had and these tend to jam and end up going home broke. I think the reason why the Troops in the area where I live don't buy tents is because they just don't camp a lot. When they do go to camp it is at one of the Council camp sites, which are very close to home. The Ship now has several tents, most are Eureka Timberline 4, which I donated after buying them very cheap when Gander Mountain had a clearance sale. We do have a couple of family tents that were donated when we first started the Ship. When I was a SM we used Troop tents for Troop camping Trips and summer camp, but when Patrols went Patrol camping what they used was their choice. If they used the Troop light-weight tents they of course were expected to look after them and return them in good shape. Ea.

This thread reminds me of the old campfire skit, where someone asks someone else to hold a box. The box has a wet spot. The person holding the box needs to go so passes the box on to another person who asks "What's in it?" The reply is "I don't know." The person taking the box notes that the box is wet and with a finger touches the wet spot then tastes it saying "It tastes kinds sweet." The box changes hands several times with each person tasting the wet spot. Some say it is sour, some say it is sweet. But no one knows what is in the box. When the original person returns to get his box. He sees the wet spot and says "Bad Puppy!" While I'm sure some people might say that this is a "Gray Area" and that we ought not allow a skit like this. I have never had a problem allowing it when I have been asked to plan a campfire. I haven't seen the show or the movie,in fact I'm not even sure what it is called! I think it is something like Jackass?? OJ has seen it and has mentioned that this takes pranks to the extreme. I really can't comment about it, having never seen it. I have seen a little bit of Punked, which isn't my cup of tea. I have also while channel surfing seen bits of Americas Funniest Home Videos. All of these shows show some poor person either being hurt or being made to look silly. (I have to close my eyes when Americas Home Video show is on.) While of course what happened in what is described in this thread is clearly unacceptable behavior. I do have to wonder what sort of impact shows like this on TV are having on our kids? Eamonn.

Most of us adults (Well me anyway!!) Tend to think that we are right. We shy away from things that may have been tried in the past and maybe not worked. We are then unwilling to give things another shot. When it comes to change we all too often turn a deaf ear. Some of the things that have worked for me over the years are. 1/ I let it be known that I'm the top guy. (SM or Skipper.) This means that when it comes to dealing with the youth members or the program, I'm the guy to go to. 2/ Before any meeting have a copy of the agenda. For Quarterdeck or PLC work with the youth leader is making the agenda. When working with the youth leader on the agenda let him or her know what your feelings are before the meeting. That way you can allow him to present your case while you keep quiet! 3/ In a nice way be ready and willing to tell other adults that everything is OK and tactfully tell them to go away and the situation is being dealt with. 4/ Keep an eye out for what is going on. Some kids don't always get on with one or two other kids, some leaders and Scouts are like oil and water. Again be willing to tell an adult that you think that he or she might be being unfair to a Scout. Look for ways to solve this problem. 5/ Think things through. We found having each Patrol having their own equipment worked for us. When it was turned in it went through the Youth QM and the adult QM. Pete our adult QM had been a store worker in the RAF. He wasn't always the most popular adult in the Troop Adult Team, but the Scouts thought he was fair and respected him. He also found ways of helping make mundane tasks a little less like hard work. I was willing when it came to anything to do with equipment or Troop vehicles to trust him and his judgment. 6/ At Committee Meetings, I seen my role as being the Advocate for the Youth members. The Scouts knew that I was going to do my best for what they had come up with. Even if at times I wasn't really 100% behind it. 7/ Dealing with unhappy Scouts?? I'll admit that there are times when my dragging my feet is done in the hope that whatever it was will just pass and go away. Without a specific case, I can't post how I might or would react. In most cases I do bring all the Scouts involved together and tell them that they need to work on working it out. Having said that I do keep an eye on what is going on and am willing to step in as need be. 6/ I really do try my best to be fair and consistent. Of course there are days when I get out of the wrong side of the bed or I'm not feeling up to par. 7/ Try to treat everyone with respect and live by the Golden Rule. 8/ Know that there is no harm in ever admitting that you were wrong and saying your sorry. It isn't a sign of weakness, in fact the Scouts and others will respect you for it. Eamonn.