Eamonn

How very sad. I can only echo what scoutldr has posted. Eamonn.

ozemu Strange you should mention the Irish. Some where in your fair and pleasant land I have an uncle. Both my parents are / were Irish. Strange thing was that they met in England even though they grew up less than ten miles from each other. When my Dad met my Mum, he was on his way to Australia. At that time you could emigrate and the boat fare was only ten English Pounds. My Mum thought that Australia was too far from Ireland and her parents, so she wouldn't go. Maybe if things hadn't turned out the way they did I could be your next door neighbor. Longpockets? I have a couple of pals who seem to have deep pockets when it's their time to buy a round!! Eamonn.

Tim, I know that I'm sticking my neck out. But I do question the real need for this equipment at a Scout Camp. I have been in Scouting for over 40 years and attended events with thousands of kids present and so far we have never needed one. Our Scout Camps tend to be spread out and cover a large area so I have to wonder if by the time the equipment got to the person how much good it would do? Sure it's great to have in a Mall where you find older people. I would hope that having all us old timers who are active taking a yearly medical would help prevent the need to use one. As for making $1,800 on a Camporee? I can't help but think the Scouts were paying way too much. - Even if there were 1,000 kids at the event. Eamonn.

Hi Welcome, I have never heard of a coffin lid? Could you explain? Eamonn.

Hi ozemu A couple of years back the house was full of kids watching the Patriot on DVD. They'd found a battle scene, where a guy gets his head blown off by a cannon ball. They slowed it down and were re-watching it time after time. Trust kids to find that part. When I was first married UK TV had just started having programs on all day. To fill the day they were airing Australian soap operas. I can't remember the title but there was one about some vets in the outback. Every time I see your name (ozemu) it reminds me of Rod Hull and Emu, a mute, highly aggressive arm-length puppet. One night during the 1970's,Hull and the uncontrollable Emu made their most famous appearances. The bird repeatedly attacked Michael Parkinson during an edition of his chat show, eventually causing the interviewer to fall off his chair. Fellow guest Billy Connolly threatened, "If that bird comes anywhere near me, I'll break its neck and your bloody arm!". Eamonn.

" I'd like to know why a SM would deny a scout the opportunity to be elected into the OA if he's met the camping and rank requirements?" There are times when SM's could or might know something about a Scout that maybe the Scouts don't know. When the Scouts in our Lodge go up to camp for a OA weekend, they go up as individuals and the adult leader in charge is the Lodge Advisor. He may not know very much about the Scouts who are attending the weekend.We have over 200 Scouts attend these weekends, so there really is no way that he can be expected to cater to the individual needs of each and every Scout. If the SM knows or is aware that a Scout has special needs or has issues that might not be met, he shouldn't approve this Scout. Eamonn.

While I have a lot of questions about the things that seem to be going on in the Troop. I'll bite my tongue and try and stick with the " What do you say to parents that are involved in the Troop just for their own Scout?" One of the big leadership skills is communication. Scouts and their families need to know whats happening. For this to happen there has to be a plan in place. If you want to involve someone and ask them to support something they need to know what they are supporting. When it comes to fund raising. If you say that the funds raised are going to be spent on a camp or a trip and their kid isn't going to attend the event. I can see why they wouldn't want to support it. If you say the money will be used to buy equipment that is needed by the Troop I'd expect everyone to do what they can to help. When events clash like having the Scouting for food drive at the same time as an OA activity? I have to think that someone screwed up and this was poor planning. I do expect ASM's to serve the entire Troop, not just their son. In order to ensure that things go as smoothly as possible, everyone needs to know what is happening and when it's going to happen. In the Ship we have one adult who would never in a thousand years miss an OA weekend. We have one adult who doesn't think we should have activities over holiday weekends. The Regatta is held every year over Memorial Day, so I know not to count on him or expect him to be there. At our next Annual Planning Meeting we are going to try and come up with a budget for the Ship. Once we have that in place we will share it with everyone. The cost of just running the Ship is fairly high, we need that amount of money just to be able to offer the program. If we want to then subsidize events or activities that will mean that we need more money. We need to look at where that will come from. Different units use different methods of how funds are managed. Some offer all the Scouts a percentage of the money raised and keep the rest for the unit. Our Scouts have said that they want to have some events where all the money goes to the Ship, some where we will split the money and some which will be used to help offset the cost of Camps. I will understand that if we hold a fund raising event for Summer Camp and a Scout isn't going, that that family isn't going to participate. But it would still be a Unit event and I'd still expect my assistant's to do their job and assist. Eamonn.

The real thing is the How not the what! I'm not sure if an AED is needed or not? After not having one for so many years I'm not sold on the idea. But that isn't the point. How someone goes about doing things in an organization is very important. All District events are really Council events. The District is an arm of the Council. The budget for all District events should be turned into the Council before the event. Once the event is over all the final accounting is done and the event is over. If there is extra money it belongs to the Council. If the event ran at a loss, the money to cover the loss would come from the Council (Yes the Scout Exec. Might need an AED!!) Did you and your pal ask permission to buy this? Who did you ask? Just because you organized an event that made money doesn't give you any special rights. In fact I'd be worried that you might be guilty of over charging the Scouts for the Camporee? Who approved the budget? If you feel that there is a need for AED's you need to bring it to the attention of the people who have that responsibility. The Council Activities Committee? Spending $1,000 is big time in most Councils. While you might feel having one is vital, it could be that the fire extinguishers do need replaced and this has priority over the AED? Can you imagine the mess we would have if every volunteer went ahead and did their own thing? No matter how well meaning? Eamonn

Oh the joy of dealing with Council Budgets. I don't know how things are done in your Council. Back when I was District Chairman, once a year the District Key 3 would meet and go over the budgets for all District Activities. (The Council Training Committee did the same thing for Council Training events.) I would share these budgets with who ever needed to know about them. For a District Camporee, the District Activities Chair and the Organizer of the event. Districts do not have any money of their own. As an arm of the Council, Districts don't own anything and all equipment is owned by the Council. My "Big Thing" when I was District Chair was making sure that no event ran at a loss. Some Councils ask for every event to make 25% or a set percentage. Thankfully our Council does not. Please don't think that I'm trying to be a book thumper or nasty in any way! But you don't really have any right to be including this equipment in your budget. The equipment would belong to the Council (not the District.) and as such should be included in the Council budget. However in the "Real World". I have done a fair amount of work with training Day Camp Directors. When no one is listening I tell them that if they have money left over, they need to spend it before they turn the cash over to the Council and turn in a receipt. I got a little upset that our Camporees didn't have basic stuff so when we held an event we would go out and buy rope and other material. Our Council hadn't spent any money on Training material for almost 20 years. So when we held a training I would go out and buy a TV/VCR combo. They only cost about $150.00. When I was SM for Wood Badge I bought a projector for power point presentations. I have my own, but I don't like lending it people when I'm not around. I wanted to buy a laptop as well, but I thought that might be pushing it. If you don't see this AED before the end of the year you might as well forget about it. At the end of the year all this years budgets close and unless it's in a new budget, it just isn't going to happen. If you make a fuss, they will go back to telling you that you didn't have the right to include this in the Camporee budget.(Next time talk to the District Chair and the Activities Chair then buy the darn thing and turn in the receipt. There does need to be some sort of an agreement of who will keep it and where it will be stored. It is also worth remembering that it never will be owned by the District and is owned by the Council.) Eamonn.

I don't have any real answers. Parents are strange animals. (Yes I include myself!) I like to think I have done what I can to be involved in just about everything that my kid has done or been involved in. Over the years I have seen the turn out for School Open House get smaller and smaller. The hall was packed full for the Kindergarten play, now I have my choice of seats. Saturday morning when he played soccer, there was no place to park, now it's just a handful of parents. When there wasn't any real need for money, Parents sold stuff by the case, now when there is a dire need everyone is busy. $20.00 to go all night bowling is fine. $30.00 for a weekend is too expensive. $60.00 for uniforms is a lot. $240.00 for an I-pod is a must have. As the kids grow older it seems that the interest that their parents have in them seems to lessen. Eamonn.

I don't visit the BSA legal website that often. The post about the law suit was the first I had heard about it and I'm glad that thanks to Merlyn_LeRoy I know what happened. I freely admit that I don't spend a lot of my time worrying about some of the things that seem to be very important to others. I also own up to at times feeling "I'm all right Jack!" I don't get that worked up about the uniform. I'm not gay. I do believe in God and as a Roman Catholic I'm OK with calling God by that name. The reason I don't spend a lot of time on this stuff is that I'm a busy little fellow. I do think some sort a uniform is nice, if for no other reason that it is some place to hang the patches and badges that our kids earn. I don't think it would be the end of the world if jeans replaced the pants or units were allowed to come up with whatever pants they wanted. I have over the past few years started to understand how people of the same sex can have deep feelings for each other. Not being gay I don't understand gay sex. To my way of thinking the equipment doesn't seem right. The avowed thing confuses me? If I woke up tomorrow and found that the BSA had left the selection of leaders and membership requirements in the hands of the CO, I don't think I'd lose any sleep. The CO's could take care of the "Duty To God" requirement as well. If it happened that some CO were unhappy with the wording of the Oath, there are people who are very clever with words who should be able to come up with something that works. Something along the lines of the Outlander Promise. Still as I'm not worrying about this I'm happy to carry on playing this game and following the rules as they are. If the BSA said that Cat owners were no longer able to be Scouters! I'd still feel that "I'm alright Jack" If they said Pet owners, I'd quit. To be very honest I wish that all this stuff would all go away and stop coming up. I do think in time things will change. The BSA seems OK with not having God in the LFL program and as far as I know (I'm not sure) Gay adults can serve in LFL programs. So if they are OK with it there, the traditional program stance must be coming from some place else? I'm guessing the members of the National Council? At this time I don' see some of the organizations that charter large numbers of Scout units agreeing to change. Still change is in the air, some religious organizations, churches and service clubs are having a change of heart and I think in time they will apply pressure to the National Council and compromises will be made. That's the big picture. As for me? - Right now I'm busy doing my best trying to deliver a program to the 28 Sea Scouts we have. Eamonn.

Now I'm green with envy!! All the stuff you had and there I was with Hymns of praise and The Magic Roundabout. Still looking back no American show can beat: Early Benny Hill The Two Ronnies. Dave Allen. Top Of The Pops (OK - I was young once. -Thursday wasn't Thursday without Melody Maker to read on the tube and Jimmy Savile on Top Of the Pops.) That Was The Week That was (TW3) The Frost Report. The Prisoner (Danger Man, wasn't bad) Monty Python Only Fools and Horses Porridge The darling buds of May. I hear that a lot of these are now available on NETFLIX -?? Eamonn ( Did anyone see the new game show on Fox? The name of the host is Eamonn with 2 N's)

A few things that are very different in the UK than on this side of the pond. (I should add that I have been on this side pond for over 20 years and things over there have changed a lot!!) In all the time I was a Cub, Scout, Venture Scout and Leader in the UK,I can't ever remember any sort of a relationship with Scouts and the schools. No School sign-up nights. Some units did meet in school buildings. In fact when I was a Wolf Cub and a Scout in the 24th Fulham (Sands End) we met in a school. - A girls school!! Boys in cubs moved into the Troop on or very near their 11th birthday. This meant that there was never a very large number moving from the pack to the troop at one time and there was no need for a New Scout Patrol. In the 1980's a new Link Badge was introduced. This allowed the little Lad to move from the pack to the Troop with a pal. He got to meet with his new PL and the adult leaders along with a few other basic requirements (Law, promise, history, Scout sign.) Back when I was Scout leader (SM) of the 17th Fulham (Pioneers) most times when a Cub moved from the pack to the troop he was ready to be invested as a Scout and his new PL played a big role in the investiture ceremony. It is also worth remembering that in the UK there are Scout Groups, the pack, troop and Venture unit were all linked and part of the same. This was supposed to happen back when we had Wolf Cubs, Boy Scouts, Senior Scouts and Rovers but due to lack of members didn't happen a lot and a lot of the older guys ended up in District units. Once a month the Group Scouters met.Under the leadership of the Group Scout Leader, at this meeting we would discuss which boys were moving from one program to the next. The Cub Scout Leader would inform me about the Cub Scouts who were turning 11 and I'd inform the Venture Scout Leader about the Lads I had who were turning 16 and ready to move on to the Venture Unit. Yes I only had the Scouts from age 11 till they were 16!! I would attend a Pack Meeting and talk to the boys who were about to leave the pack, then I'd go to their home and meet with their parents. Later I'd meet with the PLC and inform them who was coming and we would discuss which patrol they would be joining. While I wish I could say we tried to pick the Patrol which would be best for the little Lad who was joining. Sadly that wasn't always the case!! A lot of times he was placed in a Patrol that needed the numbers. When the Troop was new we did elect Patrol Leaders, but after a while most of the time the Scout who was the oldest Scout in the Patrol was the PL, the APL was the next oldest. Being as they were only in the Troop for five years and we only had Patrols of six this worked out well. The SPL was elected by the Patrol Leaders, but remained the Patrol Leader of his Patrol. Of course when the Troop went through "Growth Spurts" and the need for new Patrols came about the system fell on it's face. The 17th went from having no Scouts to having 80 in under 5 years. It became unmanageable so we split the troop in two. When we needed to find a new Patrol Leader we discussed it at the PLC most of the time the choice was clear. It is my humble opinion that having the annual cross over of a large group of younger lads all joining the Troop at one time hurts the Boy Scout program. I happen to like Patrols that have Lads of mixed ages, sure at times there are problems and there does need to be activities for the older Scouts without the younger Scouts, but even these can be used as a carrot for the younger Scouts. While the idea of the New Scout Patrol does have advantages, I don't think it works as well as having the younger Scouts joining an existing patrol and learn from the older Scouts. I also think it gives the older Scouts an opportunity to really use their leadership skills. I know I have a lot of weird ideas! I also happen to think having Boy Scouts go till 18 is not working and harms a lot of Troops. Maybe Boy Scouting is better off without me? Eamonn.

Does this mean I get a brownie? Eamonn

Merlyn_LeRoy I owe you an apology. I miss-read what you posted. I thought it read that 5 or 10 percent of the units chartered were still chartered by public funded organizations. Please accept my apology. Eamonn

As you sure that you weren't hiding in my dinning room on Monday? Yes we held our monthly QD Meeting and yes the lack of funds raised its ugly head. So far the money promised from the golf outing is still tied up in the Council Service Center. We participated in this with the understanding that it would be a 50/50 split with the District/ Council. As I had organized it in the past for the District, when I was District Chairman. We have been waiting since June!! As far as I'm concerned, that will be the last time we invite them to participate, next year we will think about making a donation to the District /Council several months after the event and who knows how much or how little it will be!! (Can you tell that I'm peeved?) Our Scouts are not good at selling stuff. They are involved in other activities that do a lot of fund raising and have a long tradition of being involved in what ever they are selling. The last Ship's Committee Meeting the parents discussed this at length. Someone said how they had seen a local Troop selling hoagies. I mentioned that this Troop has been selling them the same weekend of each month for over 10 years and that the local VFD have sales most weekends. The kids in the band seem to be selling something all the time. A lot of the clubs the school has do trips which means that the kids are selling something. We tried selling popcorn outside of Wal-mart and didn't do very well and it was very cold!! Several local business are open to having car washes. But with so many of our Scouts working at camp over the summer we missed that boat!! Most of the parents do not want to be or get involved in fund raising!! They are sick of it. They are happy to pay the full cost of any activity. But this doesn't make any money available to the Ship. The last donated boat needed 4 new tires before we could pick it up, that cost $270.00, it was a 600 mile trip to get it. Some parents/Scouts just fail to see this. We have decided that all the fund raising must involve the Scouts. They want to try their hand at a Spaghetti Dinner. They are contacting the Elks (our CO) to find out what dates are free. They are contacting the local newspaper and making posters. They will cook and do the clean up!! I will use my contacts to see about getting the food. I will also be on hand to help in the kitchen and offer cooking tips. At the last QD meeting the Scouts said that they want to come up with a budget. We have booked a building for a weekend and will include the budget making in our annual planning session. Eamonn.

If we can put the lawsuit to one side. I kinda like the idea that every Lad should have the opportunity to be a Scout. I do of course see and understand that people like myself don't have the skills and training needed to provide this opportunity. I'd really like it if Councils could do more in this area. We are trying to reach out to youth who have problems in other areas, with Scoutreach. As a sad footnote. About five years back we started a pack for special needs Cub Scouts. It was never very big, but the kids had a great time. I spent a very enjoyable afternoon with them and a Pack which was not far from them as they held their Pine Wood Derby. Both Packs had a wonderful time. The sad part? The Special needs Pack was in a Public School and met after school in the school building. After the memo went out we had no choice but to try and find other packs for these Cub Scouts. It didn't work out very well. Some will say that the school and the school district had no business allowing a Pack to start up and meet in the school. I just think it's a shame. I just looked over the list of organizations who charter units. The list is put out by the Relationship Division of the BSA, I don't see any public schools listed as CO. I'm not going to say that there maybe isn't the odd unit chartered by a public funded organizations. The 2005 report shows that there is 122,582 units. I feel certain that there isn't 6,000 or 12,000 that are chartered by public funded organizations. The list of organizations that supports the program of the Boy Scouts of America is a long list at times it is hard to know who the CO is or might be. While publicly funded fire departments might seem to be the CO. In many cases it is Fire Chiefs, International Association of (I.A.F.C.) or an auxiliary that is in fact the CO. Eamonn.

"which is why public schools have no business chartering packs" To the best of my knowledge there are no Packs chartered by public schools. A memo was sent out a year or two back from the National Office asking all Councils who had units chartered by public funded organizations to find new CO's. As I say this is to the best of my knowledge. Maybe if anyone knows of a Pack that is chartered by a public school they could be so kind as to correct me. Merlyn do you know of any? Eamonn.

Sunday was a strange day. We had planned to go to Deep Creek , Maryland and put a couple of boats that have been donated in the water. Not really to go sailing, but more to see what work we needed to do over the winter. Saturday was a wild day as far as the weather went. We had high winds, rain, snow and thunder. When I checked out what the weather was to be like in Deep Creek on Sunday it didn't look good. So we worked on the boats in my back yard. When I had first thought about starting a Ship, I'd sent an e-mail to a link that I'd found on the Sea Scout web site. I was really impressed when a very knowledgeable Sea Scouter got back to me and offered to help get things going. While we don't live in each others pocket, over the past year I have met with him a few times and we exchange E-mails fairly regularly. I think of him as being our Ship's Commissioner. He came on Sunday and gave a hand. I really like him and value his thoughts and opinions. We worked on the boats for about 4 hours and then the Scouts started to find reasons to leave. I kinda think the Steeler game seemed a little more interesting than what we were doing! I walked him back to his truck and as ever the sight of tires started a "Parking Lot Meeting" I said that the Ship hadn't attracted the youth I had thought we would. How when we started I had hoped to recruit the Scouts who were bored with Boy Scouting. OK so maybe I had this vision of me riding a big white horse and saving all these bored kids from quitting!! It just didn't happen. We have a couple of Ex-Boy Scouts, a few boys who were never in Scouts and the girls have never been in anything. The average age of our Sea Scouts is 17. I mentioned to my friend that I thought that there was a market for Sea Scouts in two of the local colleges. I had spoken with the Lad who was my ASM at the Jamboree. He is very active in the OA and in Scouting. He said that he thought that the college he attends would be open to Sea Scouting and that he sees lots of Scouts who have mentioned to him that a Crew would be a good idea. My Sea Scouter friend said he didn't think this was such a good idea. His feelings are that we need to focus our efforts on recruiting the 14 year olds. If we can get youth of this age they will be more lightly to do things around what the Ship is doing, where as with older youths they tend to try and see if there is room for Sea Scouting. This makes sense. I have always tried to follow up with Scouts who miss meetings before they get out of the habit of attending meetings. I however am a little unsure of who we should be serving? Of course the idea of a group of "Home Grown" Scouts who are dedicated to the Ship and do their best never to miss anything is a nice one. Where as older youths who already have a lot of irons in the fire and don't have the same dedication make life a lot harder for the adult leaders. Younger Scouts are more lightly to take an interest in advancement, where the older ones will pick and choose which activities they want to participate in. Some of our younger Scouts don't need a reason to turn up for things they just do. I'm sure that the answer is to have a mix of both groups, but this is hard as the pick and choose group set an example that isn't maybe the best for the younger Scouts? Eamonn.

"will make about 9 patrols " " and are told to be at the PLC at 5;00pm. and the rest of the program is told to them." " We use the patrol method" "Or maybe these scouts don't understand the patrol method." This isn't the Patrol Method at work!! Thanks to so many /All the kids having cell phones I found that kids are better than ever at being on time. Eamonn.

I had at one time thought about a Camporee based on the Nintendo Game with the Mario Brothers. The idea was that teams would save the Princess. It was all about pioneering projects. The start and the end would be two towers. One with the fair maiden in. Sedan Chairs to carry the Prince charming across the invested areas. Large catapults firing water balloons. Maybe a simple bridge? All the designs were in Scout Pioneering by John Sweet. So far I have never got around to it. Eamonn.

It would be all too easy to post what a nasty fellow this SM is. From what you posted it does sound like he had a very bad day. I don't think this is about Anger Management. It's about you and your son. I don't know you or your son, so I can only say how I'd feel. If I was having uneasy feelings about anything my kid was doing I would take a long hard look at my options and look at my expectations. Some parents seem to like the "military officer" type Scoutmaster. I don't. I love the heck out of my kid. There are some things that he does that I feel uneasy about, but I have had to put my feelings aside. If I didn't he'd never be driving a car!! Last year he and his biology teacher seemed to not be able to get along. The teacher is a friend of mine, I wasn't happy that they couldn't get along but I looked at it as a life lesson for my son. He isn't always going to get along with the people in authority. If anything I did my best to push my son to work harder and put a little more effort in. I could have gone and asked for a change of teacher. Seems to me that you and your Lad need to talk and find out what's in the best interest of your son. If you decide to remain with the present Troop. That choice will mean that both you and your son are going to show the Scoutmaster he deserves. If both of you are not willing to do that, I think that it isn't going to be long till your son drops out. Eamonn.

I have never done anything with VLSC. So at the risk of being completely out of order. Take a look at http://www.pbs.org/previews/roadtrip/ Roadtrip Nation would it seem fit into the area of goal setting. The DVD is on sale for about $45.00. As I say I don't know how or if it might fit in, but if you have the same group as you have had maybe something new might work? Eamonn

Frank So far this season Masterpiece Theater hasn't been that masterful. The history of how the mini historical drama came to be is a little odd. They started on the radio. In fact the BBC World Service still does a very good job of adapting novels to the radio. Many a night I like to go to bed and listen to it.Somehow it's like being a kid again having someone reading me a bedtime story. The BBC started adapting classic books and plays (not Shakespeare) to TV for children's TV. These were shown on Sundays in the slot from 4:00 PM - 5:00 PM. This was followed by the News and then the weekly God Spot!! An hour of religious programming. "Songs Of Praise" where the BBC would visit churches all over the UK and film a community and a church singing hymns, with interviews of local people was very popular. I'm not sure if the God Spot is still around or not. As a kid I remember watching it and making fun of the Ladies and their Sunday hat's. Some books have been made into drama TV shows many times, mainly works by Dickens. I used to have lots of them when I worked for the BBC. Sadly they were all on tape and worse still the BBC taped using the Beata system. When I made my move across the pond I gave them all away. Looking back to the days of my youth!! - Boy does that sound corny!! My mother would cook and bake on Sundays, the big meal was a late lunch. She would bake cakes and loaves of Irish soda bread. Sunday Tea, was never a cooked meal. We would have cold cuts, fresh bread, pies and cakes that she had made. We would in the winter spend the afternoon watching TV as a family. Sunday night was bath night and if I was good I was allowed to stay up late!! Roger Moore was Simon Templer, the Saint and then there was Sunday Night At The London Palladium. Of course in them there warm and fuzzy times we only had one TV in the house! Of course also the Brits are a strange lot. When BBC 2 came along, the BBC was just starting to broadcast in color, they used Billiards and snooker as a way of testing the colors. People fell in love with it!! Soon professional players were seen as super stars and were making big bucks!! Today in our house it is rare for the 3 of us to watch TV as a family, we all have our own likes and dislikes, we make our own choices, but I can't help think that something good has been lost. Eamonn.

Taking the wrong training isn't going to do much to help you deal with the task you have at hand. The training's are different because the wants and needs of the different age groups are different. The safety requirements are different. The BALOO training is different than the Webelos Scout Den Leader Outdoor Training which is different than the Boy Scout Training's. The $64,000 question you need to ask yourself is:"Why am I going to the training?" Hopefully the answer you come up with is to better serve the Scouts that you now serve. Trainings are as much about doing the right thing for the kids that will be there as they are about the other stuff. Eamonn.