Eamonn

I have not kept up with all the Cub Scout Camping requirements. I have to think that a Webelos Scout Den Leader who has taken the Webelos Den Leader Outdoor Training wouldn't need BALOO Training when taking Webelos Scouts away. Our Council Camp sites are very close to home. Most local units do not file a Tour Permit to use the camps (I'm talking Boy Scouts). In fact a quick call to the Service Center is about all that is needed. When there are Scouts in camp a Member of the Campmaster Team is assigned to be at the camp. I can't help wondering how these Councils who have extra requirements manage Patrol Camps? Eamonn.

Brent, You are of course correct. Eamonn.

This Sea Scouting program is new to me. It seems that our Scouts spend a lot of time reminding me that it's line and not rope!! I am very slowly starting to learn a lot of the nautical terms. So far I have not started sending e-mails which start with "Ahoy!" A little while back we had a thread on profanity. While I'll admit to not being an angel and have been known to engage tongue before brain. There are some expressions I try not to use in mixed company. One I didn't use was "Freeze the balls off a brass monkey" Then I found out where it comes from: Between a ship's guns were lip-edged brass trays called Monkeys which held pyramid stacks of cannon balls. In cold weather the brass tray would contract faster than the iron cannon balls and the balls would go rolling about on the deck. In this case it was said to be cold enough to freeze the balls off a brass monkey. I also found that "Son of a Gun" is from When in port, and with crew restricted to the ship for any extended period of time, wives and ladies of easy virtue often were allowed to live aboard along with the crew. Occasionally children were born aboard and a convenient place for this was between the guns on the gun deck. If the child's father was unknown, the child was entered in the ship's log as Son of a Gun. So now I'm one day older and a tiny bit wiser!! Eamonn.

"There are only two creatures of value on the face of the Earth - those with a commitment, and those that require the commitment of others." Not trying to be argumentative, but as I read this it seems to cover just about everyone and everything. A good pal of mine who is a Roman Catholic Priest gave a great sermon about Simon of Cyrene helping Jesus with the cross. While most of the material I have read about Simon deals with him being a reluctant helper. This sermon was about Jesus accepting the help. It went on to deal with how most of us are good at giving, we are not very good at receiving or even asking for help. I'm sure many of us have used "Doing the Job Alone" Dear Sir: I am writing in response to your request for more information concerning block #11 on the insurance form which asked for "cause of injuries" wherein I put "trying to do the job alone." You said you needed more information so I trust the following will be sufficient. I am a bricklayer by trade and on the date of injuries I was working alone laying brick around the top of a four-story building when I realized that I had about 500 pounds of brick left over. Rather than carry the bricks down by hand, I decided to put them into a barrel and lower them by a pulley which was fastened to the top of the building. I secured the end of the rope at ground level and went up to the top of the building and loaded the bricks into the barrel and swung the barrel out with the bricks in it. I then went down and untied the rope, holding it securely to ensure the slow descent of the barrel. As you will note on block #6 of the insurance form, I weigh 165 pounds. Due to my shock at being jerked off the ground so swiftly, I lost my presence of mind and forgot to let go of the rope. Between the second and third floors I met the barrel coming down. This accounts for the bruises and lacerations on my upper body. Regaining my presence of mind, I held tightly to the rope and proceeded rapidly up the side of the building, not stopping until my right hand was jammed in the pulley. This accounts for the broken thumb. Despite the pain, I retained my presence of mind and held tightly to the rope. At approximately the same time, however, the barrel of bricks hit the ground and the bottom fell out of the barrel. Devoid of the weight of the bricks, the barrel now weighed about 50 pounds. I again refer you to block #6 and my weight. As you would guess, I began a rapid descent. In the vicinity of the second floor I met the barrel coming up. This explains the injuries to my legs and lower body. Slowed only slightly, I continued my descent, landing on the pile of bricks. Fortunately, my back was only sprained, and the internal injuries were minimal. I am sorry to report, however, that at this point, I finally lost my presence of mind and let go of the rope, and as you imagine, the empty barrel crashed down on me. I trust this answers your concern. Please know that I am finished "trying to do the job alone!" SueM My answers to your questions: 1. Can I trust you to do the right thing? I'm not sure! Have you trained me and given me everything I need to do what is right? If you have -I'll do my best. 2. Are you committed? (to the troop, doing the right thing all the time, etc. Again I'll do my best, but it's my best, my commitment. Do you know enough about me to stand in judgment? 3. Do you care about me? Of course I do!! Anyone who cheers for the Steelers is worth caring about!! Eamonn.

Strange how a Primanti Brothers sandwich tastes better along with a Steelers winning game. Kinda sad that soon all the local brews that we had will be history. I really enjoyed my 3 years as Council Training Chairman. My stint was when all the Training's changed. I had the best-est time. But after a while I thought I was starting to lose what Scouting is all about to me. That being the kids. Having spent a lot of time sleeping on the recliner yesterday, trying to get over all night bowling on Friday night (Got home at 0500!!) I couldn't help thinking how when Her Who Must Be Obeyed and myself were first married we got home at that time a lot at the weekends and it wasn't so long back that when we had bands play in the restaurant, by the time we got everyone out and cleaned up it was about that time and I thought nothing of it!! My big fear is that one day people will start working around me, because they will see me as an old codger who they no longer can work with me and are worried if they tell me I'll get upset. Right now I still care about the Scouts I serve, they come first. I'm still open minded enough to be interested in the things that they are into and curious enough to ask. I really enjoy spending time with them. Still I'm sure the day will come when they start to get on my nerves and I no longer will be interested in what they are doing or I'll be un-willing to take the time to try and understand. Eamonn.

"Talk from a man who was a scout in Ireland during WWII " OK, I'll bite!! Why? Ireland didn't participate in the war. However,the number of citizens of the Republic who came to the UK to sign up was so great that the UK never was forced to resort to a politically-unpopular program of conscription in Ulster. c.40,000 Irish citizens joined the British armed forces, which for context was about the same number as the strength of the Republic's army. The Republic acted as a "benevolent neutral"; it fulfilled the strict criteria of neutrality while making its broad interests clear and tacitly supporting one side over the other - it sent fire crews to Belfast during bombing raids, turned a blind eye to Allied ships and aircraft passing through, had a habit of accidentally losing track of interned Allied soldiers... you get the idea. Essentially the same as Spain did, for the other side.I forgot to note one other detail - the IRA was heavily cracked down on by the Republic's government, and was essentially dormant until the late 1940s - a few shootings in Ulster, but nothing remarkable by their standards. (Contemporary UK sources often express a rather touching gratitude at this, apparently under the impression that the IRA had voluntarily taken a few years off, which probably says something about news reporting in wartime) Do you mean a man who was a Scout in Northern Ireland? Eamonn.

As a group I think that people in Scouting are a very kind group. I know a lot of "Old Timer's" and know that they still can teach a young whippersnapper like me a thing or two. I also know that as I age, my view on what is old changes or has changed. I used to think that 40 was old!! Two good additions to the new WB course are: Dealing with Change and Leaving a Legacy. Change happens and while at time we might not like the idea, we can either try and deal with it or go the way of the Dodo bird. We each have a big say in what our legacy will be. We will be remembered by different groups for different reasons and by what role we played in different lives. Due to change the roles will change. One of the most enjoyable things I really like is just hanging out with a bunch of old Scouting friends retelling "War Stories". There are times when we laugh so hard that tears run down my face and I think I'm going to have a heart attack!! Accepting that change happens and being aware of the changes can be tough. I still think that little Tiger Tiger Cubs are cute, but I know that I no longer have the patience to deal with them for any extended time period. I know that I feel the cold more and get tired more easily than I used to. The time is coming when I will no longer be able to keep with the Scouts. Hopefully when that time comes I will know it and move on to serve in some other way. It could be that there will be lots of moves!! Each move should make way for someone who will do better that I have done, maybe if I'm lucky because I have helped train them for the job. Already I have a drawer full of plaques, certificates and more beads and knots then I need. While I admit to being conceited enough to having enjoyed the limelight at the time I received this stuff, I hope I have never done anything just for this stuff. I sure as heck don't need a Emeritus patch to remind me what I have done and confuse others. When the time comes to move I hope that I'll know it and others will accept it. Eamonn.

I can't but help think that the people you need to share your ideas with are the people who will be at the event. Were I in your shoes, I think I'd wheel out the program at the next R/T and get some feedback from the district. If by chance any SPL's happened to have been invited - So much the better. Big thing with these events here in Southwestern PA. Is that you can bet your last buck, that no matter what the weather has been, the weekend of the derby it's going to be in the mid 60's!! Make sure you have a plan "B". Eamonn.

"to make sure that the scout program is really being taught with some consistity." I'm sorry I don't see how anyone taking YP Training does this? Our YP training has gone a long way to protect both the Scouts we serve and the adults who do the serving . But it is what it is!! Let's not get carried away with thinking it is any more than a training in a specific area. While Councils can make whatever rules they feel are good for the properties they own or manage, I can see that these rulings can prevent Scouts receiving certain programs at certain times. Eamonn.

Health and Safety Training? I can't find it on the BSA web site. Our Council has never offered it. What is it? Eamonn.

What ever happened to a nice clock or watch? Eamonn

I have nothing against our uniforms. Please, lets not have yet another long thread about what was, what is and what could be. As I see it and yes I could be wrong!! (I thought I was once but I made a mistake!!) The question is when should we wear the uniform? "Boy Scouts and Scout leaders proudly wear the full uniform for all ceremonial and indoor activities including troop meetings, boards of review, and courts of honor. The uniform should also be worn during special outdoor occasions, such as flag ceremonies, Scout shows, and special times during summer camp. During physically active outdoor events and informal activities, Scouts may wear an activity uniform -- troop or camp T-shirts with Scout pants or shorts. When Not To Wear The Uniform: "Do not wear the uniform while selling a commercial product or service, even for Scout fundraising purposes. Do not wear the uniform in situations that might mistakenly imply an endorsement by the BSA of a product, service, political candidate, or philosophy. Scouts and Scouters are encouraged to take part in political matters as private individuals but not while wearing the uniform. Do not wear the uniform while engaged in any activity that could dishonor or discredit the Boy Scouts of America, the uniform, or the person wearing it" Some of the TV ads before the election in our area had candidates with Scouts in uniform. You have 3 guesses to guess which party!! Eamonn.

Hi and Welcome, We used to have polls? Not sure what happened to them? Sadly I kinda get lost as I read what you posted. I should say from the get go that I really dislike Fundraising!! I see it as a necessary evil. While some events require little or no financial risk (Car washes, Yard Sales) There is the risk that on the day there will be a freak snow storm and no one leaves their homes. I like to keep things as simple as possible. In the past we have a lot of success selling Joe Corbie's frozen pizza. A pack of 3 sells for about $15.00 of which about $5.00 remains in the unit. We had out order forms, the orders are prepaid. The orders come back with the money!! We call the order into the company. About a week later the driver delivers the pizzas. He picks up the check (Must be a unit check.) As he comes early (about 0700)Everyone is informed that they have until 1030 to pick up the pizza's and the event is over. Back when I was a Cubmaster and we sold popcorn, we didn't take the money with the orders and we had problems. We had to turn one family into a collection agency and the Cub Scout ended up leaving the pack. We are looking into a Hoagie sale. It looks easy!! The supplier charges $2.50, they sell for $3.50. We have to pick up a permit at the Town Hall which costs a $1.00. This buck means that we can sell them on the street and that we will be the only people selling them. The units I have talked with say that they sell about 350. They stay out selling until they sell all of them. They pick the hoagies up early on the Saturday and when they are done about lunch time they return to the hoagie shop and pay for the hoagies. The bad news is that once you pick up the hoagies you are committed to selling that amount, not much fun on a wet day. While I'm not an expert in this area!! My tips would be: Don't make it complicated. Avoid as much risk as you can. Making about 33% seem to be the norm. Find someone who likes doing this sort of thing and hand it off. Eamonn.

I'm 100% for using the Patrol method. I'm all for youth led units. But.... There are times when I have the last word. If the Scouts expect me to be some place, I have to be available. I do have other obligations. (Family, work and things I might have committed to do.) There are times when we are invited to join in activities with other units. Our Scouts are free to accept or decline the invite, but they don't have any say in when the event will be. Strange thing is that some parents don't seem to understand that. We do have an annual plan, but as of right now we can't book our summer trip as we are waiting for some of the Scouts who plan on attending to find out what dates they will be needed on staff at different camps and the dates for the SEAL courses. While I'm not really into the "Who out ranks who" I see the job of an ASM as assisting. As long as the unit can meet the two deep and all that other good stuff, the Scouts should go when the SM is able to go. As for the float thing. The PLC should be able to work that one out, finding someone with a vehicle shouldn't be an insurmountable problem. Eamonn.

I was overjoyed to see the article in the November-December issue of Scouting Magazine about Msgr. Brady. He really is a Scouting "Treasure". He was kind enough to allow our Sea Scouts to camp in his garden and have the run of his house earlier this year. The garden looks like a boat yard, full of boats in various states of repair. The boats belong to SSS 548. Doug Yeckly the Skipper of SSS 548 is a super nice fellow. Both are very soft spoken and seem to have an understanding of Scouting and youth, that I can only hope one day to gain. If you can find the time read the article. Eamonn.

What am I missing? It seems that a group of Cub Scouts are throwing potatoes at each other. Where are the adults? Why haven't they stepped in to put a stop to this? What difference does the religious affiliation of the kid with the knife make? Scouts are climbing ropes? Where is the adult supervision? Our school district has a zero tolerance for kids with knives. Any student caught with a knife faces an automatic suspension, pulling a knife and they end up in front of the local JP!! Of course this isn't the school district, but pulling a knife is a big deal and needs to be treated as a big deal. What happens to the Scout is up to the Pack Committee. I think if I were the parent of any Cub Scout at this camp I would have very deep concerns about the adult leadership or lack of leadership. I know that I'd be looking for a Pack which understands that boys will be boys, and takes steps to ensure that situations like this one never are allowed to happen. These are Cub Scouts, many of them have not got to the stage where they understand that there are consequences for their actions. Throwing stones, potatoes or turnips is not acceptable behaviour. Eamonn.

My little darling turned 18 this past July. From when he was about 16 he was very much a cafeteria Scout. The Troop he was in had tweaked the program so much that at times I wasn't sure if they really were part of the BSA!! After serving twice as a staffer on JLTC,he seen that the Troop was little more than a Eagle mill. Like Her Who Must Be Obeyed he is mule headed and very strong willed.( Unlike his easy going lovable Dad!!) The Troop not doing things the way that he thought was right turned him off Troop Scouting. Scouts not earning ranks and just having them handed to them, turned him against advancement and for a long time against becoming an Eagle Scout. He was/is very active in the OA. He enjoys working at summer camp. But he got out of the habit of attending Scout meetings and when he did attend there was very little for him to do, other than stand around and talk to who ever else was standing around doing nothing. He is a member of the Ship, but is busy working, and is involved in a lot of after school activities, so he tends to miss a lot of what is going on. A couple of months back he came to me and said that he was thinking of signing on as an ASM in a Troop in the community next to ours. The Troop is where his Lodge Adviser was SM and where one of his OA friends is an ASM. All through his Boy Scouting career, I have done my best to let him do what he thinks is for the best. He choose which Troop he wanted to join. He did what he thought was right. When he asked me about becoming an ASM,I asked him why? He gave me a long list of what was wrong with the Troop he had been in! But no reason why he should join a new Troop. So I asked him what would he bring to a Troop? When he thought about it, he admitted that he wasn't skilled enough to bring very much to any Troop and would in fact end up standing around at the back of the hall talking to any one who wasn't doing anything. In the end we decided that the best thing would be for him to just be a Sea Scout and spend some time improving his skills. I have never really been able to work out why if the OA is a Boy Scout program it doesn't follow the Boy Scout age groups? This time next year he will be away at college and the time he would have to devote to being a ASM wouldn't be that much. I'm not sure if I was the SM that I'd really want him hanging around. But that would be up to the nominating committee, the CC and the COR. Eamonn.

Have to agree with the wise words that FScouter said about thinking. It might be worth remembering that the Troop didn't get to where it is overnight and what ever needs to be put right isn't going to happen overnight. This isn't a reason not to try, but a good reason not get frustrated and give up. Going over the points: 1/ I don't have very many dark hairs left!! I have been playing this game for a good while, and I never ever got a call tree to work. Good communication is a true leadership skill. You might want to think about: Sending (Or having the Scribe send?) Everyone a text message. Nearly all of our Sea Scouts have cell phones and seem to check their phones more than their E-mail. A Troop web page with dates posted helps. We have a Group page on Yahoo. It e-mails all messages and postings. 2/ This takes time!! The more stuff you do as Patrols, the sooner they see that they are Patrols. When a Scout asks you a question. Your first answer should always be "Have you asked your Patrol Leader?" Of course this only works if someone has taken the time to tell the Patrol Leader and the SPL what is going on in the first place!! If not it's just a waste of time. 3/ How important Scouts and Scouting is to an individual is his choice. Some Scouts live for Scouting while for others it's just another activity. Our role as leaders is to deliver the program to the best of our ability. We are only ever as good as our last meeting. We need to look at what we are doing and do a very honest assessment of it all. Look at what worked and what didn't and then see what can be done to fix what didn't. Lads join Scouts to have fun, participate in adventures and be challenged. They dislike being preached at and talked to death. They dislike doing things that don't seem to have any point or meaning. Look for ways to put the stuff you do in the Scout meeting to work. Don't just tie bandages go wild with chicken bones and ketchup. Don't just set a map, go on a hike. You are now a new member of the imagineers club!! Have fun, smile and laugh a lot with the Scouts. Eamonn.

Hi jwmerica Welcome to the forum. To my mind, one of the things that has over the years helped make Scouting so wonderful, is the adults. Everyone who joins brings something to the table. Some seem to focus in a certain area. We had an old Scouter in our Council who carried rope around in his pocket and would look for every opportunity to pass on his great knowledge of knot tying. Many of my friends in Scouting seem to have something which seems to be "Their Bag". Some seem to see Scouting as a form of ministry and focus on "Duty to God" while others see Scouting as preparing Scouts for some sort of mountain man challenge. I think that I'm passionate about Scouting. I really hate when I hear that a Scout has been asked to leave, no matter what the reason. I think we have failed. I wish we could do more for every kid. I wish we could find ways of delivering the program to every kid. I like to think I have the best of intentions. But I know I don't have all the skills needed to cater to every kid. I admire the people who have the skills I don't have. I thank them for the work they do with the Scouts they serve. Now for the But. I however think that as volunteers trying to force something upon us, particularly something which we may have little or no experience and no training in, is not the way to get things done. Many, many moons ago while working for my Queen's Scout Award, I did my service project working at the Cheyne Centre for Spastic Children, in Chelsea, London. As a Venture Unit we built an adventure playground for the kids and once a week we would take them out to use the play ground. The kids had the best of times. A few years later I had the wonderful idea of starting a Cub Scout pack there. Cub Scouting in the UK is different and the Pack meets weekly. Everyone thought the idea was good, but the only time the pack could meet was in the early afternoon. The problem was transporting the kids back home (not everyone in London had a car.) We just couldn't find enough people to be on hand to make the thing work. The need for us to be able to do more is there. Many if not most of us wish we could do more. Sadly most of us are trying to do more than we should serving the Scouts we have. Special needs units need very special leaders, who know what they are doing. They may need special equipment, which can be very expensive. The units tend to not be very big and the parents are stressed out to start with, trying to involve them in the management of a Scout unit is hard. Most units seem to revolve around a few hard working parents, who are so busy delivering the program that they don't have time to think about what happens in the future and sadly once these few move on the unit fails. School Districts, would be the ideal CO, but as we know this isn't allowed. For now sad as it might be we can only do our best to serve as many kids as we can. My hat is off to all the Scouter's who work with kids with special needs. Eamonn.

" I have not seen the district budget; " The District doesn't have a budget. Events are budgeted and the money made goes to the Council. It would seem that the District over charged the Scouts who attended the Camporee by about 25%. I have to wonder if this is helping teach ethical choices? I also question how this fits in with A Scout is thrifty? I thought the role of the Council was to support the units and making money from the unit members seems a strange way of supporting them. Eamonn.

I love American Politics!! I miss not being "Back Home"and being active in doing more to select our leaders. Still, I'll have a late night watching and seeing what happens. We have some very tight races here in PA. I'm not sure if change just for the sake of change is a good thing? We spend a heck of a lot of money changing the machines that are used to vote. While I think the world of our servicemen and women who are serving in Iraq, I was never for the war. I think maybe we are not doing such a great job of remembering the turn out in Iraq for their election. They risked a lot to turn out and vote. No fancy machines, just a paper ballot and a blue finger. It very much looks like Tony Blair, is about ready to step down as Prime Minister. Sadly the Labour Party has moved so far to the center that it no longer is what it should be. But then again looking back to the days when the party was almost taken over by trotskyites, maybe it was time for a change? Someone sent me an E-mail which stated that the election is held in November as November is a good time to pick a turkey? I deleted it!! Enjoy the election. But I bet 2008 will be more fun!! Eamonn.

OJ spent the weekend at Camp Alpine in the wilds of New Jersey attending the NE-Region OA Section Officers Seminar. He really does enjoy the time he spends with the OA. NOAC, was a big hit with him!! But he has been a little down in the dumps. His bid to be our Lodge Chief failed and our Boatswain is the Lodge Chief, the pair of them are really good friends, but he would have liked to have won!! He is the NE-4B Section Secretary, this is his second year serving in that position. Our Section Chief is a super nice young man. He was a Scout in the 2001 Jambo Troop when I was SM and was my 3rd ASM at the last Jambo. I have never attended one of these seminars. To be honest I'm not that active in the OA other than the stuff I do with our Lodge,which isn't that much. I don't really know what they do. But whatever it is seems to work. OJ returned home late last night full of the joys of Scouting. He was wearing a OA T-shirt, the front had just one word on it. YES!!! With a statement like that? Need I say more. Eamonn. (I love this Scouting stuff - Even the Bob Whites!)

" With our $5k budget, that meant $750." So how many Scouts attend? While I know that we are a small District and we think 100 Scouts at a Camporee is great! But $5,000? How much do you charge and what do the Scouts get for their money? Eamonn.

I'm a little surprised to read that District Camporees are making so much money. I understand that some Districts are bigger than others! But if we had an event that made $100.00, the District Committee was upset! They didn't think that Camporees should be money makers! During my term as District Chair. We noticed that having Troops go and cook lunch got in the way of the program, so we included lunch, the program and a patch for $10.00. Now I'm out of the way I see that things have gone back the way they were and the cost is down to $5.00. Eamonn.

Just about all the Scouts even the older Sea Scouts, seem to be gung-ho when they start. I think that Handbooks and manuals play a big part in helping to light the fire. I recently had a Scout who was trying to master knot tying, he'd been in a Troop for about five years and hadn't got it. When he started to use the knots or should I say had to put the knots to use he seen that there really was a need to know this stuff. He even said to me that if someone had let him know how important knowing and being able to use the skill was he would have put more effort into mastering it. Providing opportunities for Scouts to use the stuff they learn is very important. Some kids are lazy little toads and seem to have somehow managed to got to where ever they are not knowing very much and hiding the fact. Some months back I posted about the Sea Scout we have who didn't understand Time and Distance, when I worked with him for a while I found out that he couldn't tell time. He could read it on his phone, but didn't understand it (If it was 0745 he didn't know how many minutes it would be till 0800!!) Very often if a Scout has a problem he can do a very good job of hiding it and not participate in advancing for fear of being found out. We the adults need to remember the Guided Discovery. I never seem to have had a problem getting Scouts started. The problem comes later, after they have been in for a couple of years. I blame myself a lot for that, at times I know I'm guilty of trying to cater to the newer Scouts, in part because I'm a lazy toad and it's easier, requiring less effort on my part. Eamonn.