Eagledad

Apples and oranges. I don't know if OSHA was created for low population growth in the US, but experts have been expressing for a long time that the birth rate in North America is too low and will have to be balanced. What does that mean exactly, I don't know. But the low birth rate has been a topic for a few years. Now, that discussion isn't the same as the over population fear that is seeping into politics. That is a different thing. Activism, you've got to love it. Or hate it. Barry

Like Venturing, OA is another scouting program outside of the troop program. SteveMM’s SM is looking at it as a troop program, which adds pressure on the scouts. Pressure and boredom drive scouts away. Barry

We offer it once a year to any 1st class scout who wants it. We add other lessons during the training, like how to sign off advancement and communicating skills. Our version of ILST is pre-required for being a patrol leader. Barry

I can see why this is frustrating for the more experienced members here. Do training because,,, well why? As a scoutmaster, I set goals and specifics for the unit volunteers we sent to training, so that they could see where they fit in the bigger picture of our program. As a WB Staffer, I asked all participants to talk with their unit leader to learn the unit goals for them. This is not only important because a volunteer shouldn't feel they are wasting time when they could be at home with their family, but also understanding the goals them helps them focus on how to use the information they are learning. Especially with developing the Ticket Items. I believe the unit leader should have Ticket Items in mind for the participant, so that they practice the expectations of the unit leaders. All this to say that I would ask your chairman what he/she wants, or at least hopes you gets from WB. A lot of units unintentionally abuse training by turning it into a requirement to inter the group, club, team, or whatever. It's one thing to spend 1 day for some specific training, WB requires much more time and is less specific. When you look at the basis of what WB is trying to do for units, it's basically teaching how to set goals and build teams to reach those goals. If the main unit leaders understand those objectives, not all volunteer needs WB for a successful performing unit. If your chairman is doing their job, they are teaching you the lessons of WB by developing you into the team. I'm with Qwazse, they should give some basic unit training then let you sit back and watch. Barry

Yes, that is probably more our motivation than footprint impact also. by the end of they, the ounces hurt more than the pounds. Barry

No, we are a backpacking troop. Some scouts go all out in the minimal backpacking experience and purchase their own tent. Ironically they don't always take them on Crew backwoods treks and instead tent with other scouts to reduce campsite foot print impact. Barry

Like everything else, doing something right and having a great experience is all about training. Whether the scout learns how to use the tree saw (causes most injuries) properly or the hammock, training dictates proper use. I'm not a fan of sleeping in hammocks. I have a backpacking hammock I take on every trip, but it is more for relaxing. I found that I can't sleep in taco position. But, that is just me. I want scouts to experience as much as they can in their scouting experience, so I would encourage scouts to learn about hammocks and how to properly use them. Then see how it goes. I wouldn't expect a whole patrol to use them because we allow single man tents and only 3 or 4 scouts in the whole troop use them. But, if more scouts than trees want to experience hammocks, then we scouters get to watch their character skills.😎 Barry

Alone or with other scouts? I could see the no talking part as the challenge. Barry

When all council records were updated, handled and stored on paper, we averaged 5 errors verifying our Eagle candidates records before Council went digital around 1998. After, we averaged zero errors. And that was with a terrible software program. Barry

Our COR approached us with a complaint that our scouts were damaging the ceiling in the meeting room. Turns out after further investigation that the damage was caused by the Girls Scouts's flag pole tips during flag ceremonies. I'm not sure if there is a standard pole height, but you might check the ceiling height in your meeting room. As for flag size, it should be at least the size of the troop flag. Barry

Oh! I need to pay more attention to accents. Barry

Thanks, that puts the issue more in context. I would likely be a problem for Philmont if 90% of crews use a hammock. Barry

I'm curious of how many scouts use hammocks. Most of the hammock users in our troop were adults. Scouts tried them out for an hour, but never got motivated to use them. Barry

Well there ya go, we live in a world of contradictions. I guess that's why a scout should always be prepared. Barry

Teaching scouts how to be safe in all their activities is (or was) an expectation by the general public. Over the years as a scout leader in back county activities, I grew to fear two events the most with the responsibility of taking care of other parents sons: lightning and hypothermia. IF they are not respected, they can cause harm quickly. Our troop is a backpacking troop, so our scouts have enough experience to understand the 3s. But, I was disappointed that Philmont didn't view it's program as teaching basics. Are bears really that much of a risk while a dozen noisy scouts are setting up tents in the daylight hours. Mountain showers are daily occurrence during the summer months in the mountains. I think Philmont has the mentality that they can deal with most emergencies pretty quickly because of their vehicle access to most areas of the ranch. In their eyes, the likelihood of real harm in responding to hypothermia or a lost patrol is a lower risk than a bear attack. I can understand that, but the risk for bear encounters isn't isolated to Philmont. The risk are just as great in most of the wilderness areas in the Rockies as well as in the Norther Tier. Beary

It's all about the trees. It started back in the 80s I think by some political activism of protecting the trees from man. It wasn't about Philmont, but National reacted in about the mid 90s. Hammock users know how to safely protect trees. But, when running thousands of youth through the trails in a 3 month period, blanket policies are just easier. As for the single man tents, I don't remember that being a problem 15 years ago. We used them. I wonder if bears is part of the reason for the policy. If Philmont is really concerned about camp LNT, they could reduce the size of the crews. I've heard that National would rather troops not use single man tents for all their camp outs. Youth protection? Who knows. My reasoning for a tent-mate was sharing the weight of the tent. It wasn't too long ago that many crews slept together under the tarp. Philmont has it's own policies for it's own reasons. The first rule of making camp in the wilderness is shelter because hypothermia can happen anytime with the elements. Anyone who has spent much time in the mountains understands how quickly the rain can hit without warning. The first procedure at Philmont for making camp was hanging the Bear Bag. You wouldn't think that a big deal, but by coincidence after I mentioned shelter and hypothermia to our Philmont Ranger, we were hit with a thunderstorm that dropped 2 inches of hail, a huge drop in temperature, followed with 30 minutes of rain (perfect hypothermia situation). We had just got through setting up the tents, but had the storm hit 30 minutes earlier, it could have been more dangerous. I may have been sensitive because a few years earlier we had the exact same situation on the lakes in the Northern Tier and experienced some hypothermia. Of course the Philmont policy isn't without reason, a scout was attacked in his tent by a bear the previous year, so Philmont was on hyper-bear-alert. The only reason I bring it up is that I believe the majority of visitors to Philmont are first-time backpackers and they should learn the accepted habits of wilderness camping to take back to their troop. Shelter, water, food. Barry

Why not? Barry

That is a lot of ifs for someone stuck in the middle of a dense forest. Turn left in 500 feet isn't of much value in the Norther Tier or the Arizona desert. I imagine that Lat/Long is well understood for most Alaskans. I haven't looked, but surely their is nav app that converts to lat long like the aviation apps. I would certainly want my scouts to have clue. Barry

So, how do you explain to Search and Rescue where you are located in the deep wooded valley? "Turn left in 500 feet?". I'm a pilot, so Lat/Long is natural to me. Barry

We (me the cubmaster) set a uniform policy with the Den Leaders. And in this age of email, this policy can certainly be sent to parents for their own information if you like. But after that, I just left it up to the parents and leaders. Maybe its easier for me to suggest not letting the little things bog down the big things, because I can look back at my experience. But at the Cub level of volunteering, uniform is not worth the the frustration and stress. There will always be that 10% who don't desire to be uniform with the group. 20% at the troop level. As a CM, I can assure you bigger frustrations are coming your way. It's not that I'm not a uniform person, you will find in past forum discussions that I'm very pro uniform method at the troop level. Uniform at the troop level is a scout decision and making right or wrong choices is a values perspective to me. Uniform at the cub level is an adult decision in most cases and adults who willingly defy policies tend to boldly defend their choices. Pick your hills. Barry

It’s all relative, my brain would have felt very small without a GPS to navigate Italy last year. I would have been stuck in roundabouts the whole trip. 😳 Barry

Yes all true, and that flight may have been 1981, I’m old and those days are a bit of a blur. But the result of the strike was firing many, if not most, of the controllers. The FAA was forced to make dramatic changes to the ATC system for a couple of years until they could train enough new controllers to bring the system back to normal. Barry

Yes, but when I was flying during the controller strike in 1982, the FAA accommodated special events like college football games with special procedures to deal with the high influx traffic. I don't know where the problems occurred in this situation, but there are ways to adjust procedures if planned ahead. Barry

Lots of good opinions here and agree with them, but I think you really need to just spice up your program a little. They call it Webelso burnout, but really it's adult burnout. The meetings are as good as the adults plan them. There are million ways to do that. My Webs met at the Troop meeting the last couple months. They didn't get involved with the troop program, but they did stand with troop for Flag ceremony. We also met at the park for some outdoor stuff. We rode our bikes one day learning hand signals and proper etiquette, but mostly we just had fun riding bikes. Go for a hike at a nearby lake. Take some marshmellows and stop to build small fire. Easy to plan and only requires a couple of hours. Ask the Troop scouts to come in and teach a couple of knots and then have a knots race. Demonstrate how to safely us a lawnmower, or change the tire on a car. OR, visit troops every other meeting. Get your creative juices flowing and you will find there isn't enough time for all the fun ideas. Barry

Good post, thanks. Our troop of 100 scouts ran pretty much the same way. One ASM to assist troop guides, one for camping and logistics, and one for QM. How many adults the SM requires is dependent on how well the scouts manage their program. Some years may require more adults than others as scouts age out and new blood learn the ropes. Barry