Eagledad

The best District Commissioner I knew gave his UCs 3 units. A successful one, a medium performing one, and a struggling one. The intention was to use the resources and experiences of the three to raise the performance of all three. But, they don’t have to fix all the issues they see; when I was the District Membership Chairman, the district learned that I had some ability for helping struggling unit adults leadership teams get back on track. So, I got a call once in a while by UCs who identified problems with their units leaders. I think a lot of UCs feel they have to fix every problem they find. More often than not, their time is better spent finding someone who is better for the job. Barry

Rarely do volunteer organizations function with the efficiency of a business because, well because they are operated by “volunteers”. This is by no means a criticism of desertrat, who I have a great deal of respect, but the performance of commissioners is directly under the management of the District Commissioner. The District Commissioner is also a volunteer. Done correctly, the Commissioners duties are not labor intensive. Barry

The GSUSA scouts in our town follow the Boy Scouts every year at the local 4th of July parade and laughs can be heard through the crowd. What I've noticed in movies and TV shows is the girl characters in scouts (not necessarily GSUSA) are typically dressed like the traditional GSUSA scouts so that they are especially identifiable as girl scouts. One of my favorites are the scouts in the movie Dodge Ball. Barry

I'm kind of a big picture person, so I don't look at national standards and flexibility as choices. I believe organizations need a consistent structure that doesn't change from state to state, or even from generation to generation. Scouts across the U.S. and their grandfathers should feel they come from the same program. But, my experience at the council level showed me that there has to be flexibility for different cultures and personalities of members. The education and experience of the average leader in a city is far different from the leaders 30 miles a way in farm communities. So there has to be flexibility for those two cultures to fit in the same program. And, after working at the Council to unit levels, I feel the flexibility is there. I certainly pushed the edges of program. One of the areas that a lot (A Lot) of leaders have complained about over the years is the Webelos program. Most of the critique is pointing the lack of flexibility of the programs for adventure, and lack of development for getting scouts ready for the Troop program. But, after several years as a user, I have always countered that the Webelos program is pretty good and very flexible. It does exactly what it needs to do for the maturity of Webelos ages. Scouts don't need troop program training, they need confidence development for self confidence. Where many Webelos leaders fail is in their lack of creativity for doing the Webelos Activities in the outdoors. I believe the troop leaders who want their crossovered new scouts with more troop experience are actually neglecting their new scout program. It's not the lack of skills that scares new scouts, it the idea they are going into the deep dark woods without the security of adults. The perspective of a new scout is that Patrols are just a bunch of kids, and that is terrifying to a young new scout who has had every decision of their security made by adults up to that point. They need some time to see that a patrol full of kids is a safe place. Where I struggle with National is the communication with the users of the program. I can give a lot of examples, but I will highlight my frustration with this example; During the time I was the Council JLT Chairman, I was invited to be on the National BSA forum to advise changes to the then JLTC course. The forum was advertised as an advisory forum to develop a new Council Level JLT course (NYLT). It was a very good forum with lots of good discussions. I was excited to see what was coming. But what National published was junior level 21st Century WB course. Now, I understand National's reasoning of taking what the adults learn from WB can be transferred to the Scouts. But the WB course isn't really a leadership development course, it is a team building course. Scouts need real leadership development. We could debate whether that is appropriate or not, but there was no discussion on the forum for such a syllabus. National ignored the recommendations from the users of JLT and implemented their own course. If National had any integrity with me, they lost it then. The same thing basically occured with the changes they made to the Tiger program in 2000. The recommendations we gave to National basically suggested less responsibility on the adults. National did just the opposite tripled the work on the adults. National wasn't listening to the users to the level of understanding the situation. So you see, National is not listening. Or if they are, they aren't showing it. I personally believe that the general structure of the BSA is very good. And it works successfully where I've seen it implemented as it was intended. I believe that the bad reputations that have developed were the result of National's drive for increasing numbers. I think to get the program back on balance, the program needs to be scaled back to the 70s program. Then tweak it for todays culture of youth. Barry

My experience is that units, districts and even councils do have some leeway toward a custom structure, but councils motivation depends on what they will get out of it, which often gets in the way at the unit level. I was given the the go-ahead by council to develop a completely new concept of a Council Level Junior Leadership Training Course. The concept and syllabus was completely different from Nationals JLTC/Brownsea courses both in the objectives and the structure of the course. Council was motivated for something completely new because the previous course directors developed such a bad course reputation with the course that Council needed to start over just to get some integrity back in JLT. On the other hand, our District had two Cub Packs that eliminated Tigers from the program because the overhead was to much for the leaders. Council fought (harassed) them hard to keep the Tiger program because they were afraid of loosing membership. I can't say exactly where National draws the line in the sand for letting Council make these kinds of decisions, but their common goals and motivations will certainly drive some limitations that aren't advantageous to units. I believe if National is to give Councils more freedom to customize their structure, they will need guarantees of monetary and membership gains. The struggle has been for some time that National's goals don't fall in line with their Mission and Vision. The saying goes that unit goals of quality don't fit with nationals goals of quantity. Now I know that you don't like this negative talk, but as an innovator, I've learn in my life that maturity and changes come from the fertile soil of humility. If the BSA is to really make changes toward improved program, National needs to display openness to listening and proof of action. Something? Barry

I know you asked Malraux, but I'm trying to understand your question. Doesn't the national structure mandate implementation of all the ages groups in every council? Are you suggesting councils be given a choice to structure units to fit the demographics? Barry

I didn't think a green arrow was enough support of your post. The ideas in your post have been mention several times on this forum for 20 years. And we will just keep mentioning them. Well done. Barry

You just haven't seen a good one in action. But, I understand what you are saying. The expectations (or lack of expectations) of the UCs are set by the District Commissioner. My dream job after Scoutmastering was District Commissioner. But, that job was already taken, so I ended up doing other District and Council responsibilities. When the dream job was finally offered, I was burned out and declined. No regrets, but I don't think we would be stuck in today's political situation if I had taken the job because I had a plan for saving the world. 😎 Barry

Delegate. There is usually someone in the unit that likes that kind of stuff. You just check their work now and then, and praise them in public at a meeting. You might even give them a box of GS Cookies. It's an opportunity to shine a light on someone. Barry

The idea is good, we had someone like this help our troop. Officially he was our UC. This kind of gets back to previous discussions of recruiting the right people for the right positions. Even getting "members of a local college outdoor club, former Philmont rangers and other super scouts, REI employees, graduates from college outdoor education programs, Maine Guides" requires somebody to first find them. The District Commissioner brought up in a District Committee meeting that he couldn't find any volunteers for Unit Commissioners. He wasn't even looking for qualified volunteers, he would take anyone. I met him after the meeting and asked how many he needed. Eleven was the ideal number. I made a few calls to a few troops and 2 days later handed him a list of 11 excited Qualified volunteers. I'm not saying that the UCs should be know all and go all for unit programs, I am just suggesting that the reason we don't see more experts to help units is because nobody is looking or asking. I don't know if recruiting is a skill or it just requires an effort, but a good recruiter can find talented volunteers. Barry

When I look at what District could do to make a cub leaders job easier, it's not so much what district could do, but what National could do. Reduce the program to a manageable level for the "Average" volunteer. Tigers alone requires more adults than the rest of the program. The maturity of the Tiger age youth is closer to toddler than elementary youth. If National believes they can raise membership with TIger age scouts, then create a new program for 4 and 5 year olds that doesn't come under the responsibility of the Pack. Of course I'm not sure the helps with the adult burnout problem, but at least it lightens the load for pack leaders. We could also look at trimming the other end of the program with Webelos, but I believe Tigers weighs down the volunteers more than the rest of the Cub program, so give it 5 years to see where the packs are sitting. Barry

I don't think it's blasphemy, my opinion is that adding more Paid positions is unrealistic. Barry

Agree The problem with COR's is that unless the council puts a lot of effort in educating the COs of their responsibilities, the COR's aren't typical of understanding (or caring) about the Executive Board. The SE needs to develop a relationship with the COs and teach (sell) them the vision and the value of the vision for the youth. Yep, the lack of credible suggestions is the whole of the problem both at the Council and district level. In fact it's common unit problem too. This goes back to if the Council is serious about building a performing board, they have to start at the base and educate the COs. THEN, the nominating board needs to do research to find candidates with the qualifications they are looking for. Too often nominating committees wait for names to come to them from where ever. The nominating committee needs to be led by a dynamic person who knows how to seek out proactive committee members with the talent for using resources to seek and research candidates. The committee must be proactive. Yes, here is the struggle. One thing to say, go out and find these candidates, but it's another thing to find the right nominating committee to seek out the the right candidates. How are they going to get the word out? Who can they personally call, or even visit. It's very much who you know, so who does the committee know, and who do they know, and on and on. The passion of the candidates for the Executive Board is usually reflective of the nominating committee. So, the committee needs to be well respected high performers. 1. know and understand the vision. 2. Train and build a relationship with the COs and teach them the values of the vision. 3. Find the right person who believes in the vision, and knows how to build teams to lead the nominating committee. 4. Build a high qualified and productive nominating committee to search candidates that fit the vision. Barry

We've discussed this a few times, but the good district proactively recruit volunteers with the skills for their responsibility. Finding skilled volunteers requires research, interviews and a bit of salesmanship. Most districts don't recruit well because they tend to fill a position with the first unqualified warm body that says yes. There is always plenty of qualified skilled volunteers if the recruiter goes searching for them. I recruited for qualified volunteers by asking unit leaders about volunteers in their units. I asked specific questions about their abilities, backgrounds and experience. I find that most unit leaders don't mind bragging about their better volunteers. They don't even mind if those volunteers might be asked to give some time at a district position. I think they believe having someone on district committee would give their unit some advantage. But, I should have started my response by saying the primary key to getting good district volunteers is knowing exactly what you want for the scouts in your district. A vision. For example, our district was terrible at membership because they didn't have any real goals except to do Cub Recruiting night. Then we recruited a Membership Chairman that developed training for the Cub units that gave them some ideas to recruiting scouts and adult volunteers. Membership numbers jumped. Recruiting talented district members is challenging if the committee doesn't even know what they want. Barry

So, the nominating committee is responsible for the quality of the board. Who selects the nominating committee? At some point, somebody is responsible for character of the board. Barry

OK, so who recruits these people? Maybe we are looking for the wrong experts. Barry

Maybe it’s changed, but 4 digits was for Jamboree units. Barry

It's just a visit. Don't make it anymore than that. To call the SM is to suggest the scout is doing something concerning. Our scouts oftened introduced me to their visiting friends who wanted to see what our scouts were bragging about. But, those visiting friends have a long relationship with their patrol mates, adult leaders, and program, of their troop that isn't worth giving up just for a few differences in the programs. Let the scout control whatever process he may or may not have started and remember you will likely never see him again. And if you get a call from the SM, tell him you treated his scout with the respect you treat all guest. Barry

I don’t know who you are, but I think you are already in scouting. And my posts aren’t about where you found your morals, my position is if god isn’t the source of our morals, then who is?

It’s intentional and I fully believe it. Character isn’t how one reacts, character is how one reacts. Reacting within the virtues of the Scout law takes practice. And isn’t that what scouting is all about. BSA Mission: “The mission of the Boy Scouts of America is to prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law.” My. References of reacting to moods is not specific to atheist, but to all human. It’s our nature. That is why we practice making decisions based from moral virtues. I never said believing of a god is required to have morals. My stand is morals come from God. How we learn our morality is very dependent on our role models and growth from our decisions. Not just religions, but communities, race, sex and a million other differences. The scout oath and law are actions of respect despite our differences.

I believe the issue is way above judging of hearts. It's about whether the program will stay a values program. Can the present Scout Oath survive with atheist members? Scouting youth organizations around the world admitting atheist say no. I can't remember where, but the Oath has changed in several youth scouting organizations to exclude god. Likely the BSA Oath will also have to change to appease the extremest. "I promise to do my best for Bob the SM and who ever he deems worthy". Hope Bob is in a good mood on the next campout. The Oath sets god as the first to be honored by scouts to do their best. That isn't by accident. If one does their best for god first, everything that follows is theoretically down hill. If god is pleased, shouldn't everybody? If god is taken out of the oath, then who sets the standard to do their best? Without god, I'm pretty sure the Law will become flexible. After all, the reverence thing is a hassle. Where will values come from? The BSA is respected for being a values program. If not god, then who? I believe the answer will have to be nobody so Bob isn't held totally responsible. The BSA will become a camping program. Which is fine if that's what the culture wants today. But, no more helping little old ladies across the street. Sadly, I believe when the battle comes, you can tell it's coming by the small sample of this discussion, the driver for the godless side will be the trivial Eagle. Most adults (me included) could care less if a scout is atheist. Most are good folks and we don't mind atheist experiencing a theist program to learn all sides of life so they can make an educated choice when they mature. But that darn Eagle. Just like we heard during the girl membership debate, gotta have the Honored Boy Scout Eagle. The titillating excitement of who will be the first atheist Eagle. Who knows, there might even be new atheist troops going around beating the pants off theist troops at camporees. The winds of change are hash and the BSA landscape won't be the same. It's not about judging of hearts. Of all the changes we've talked about over the years, this one is the scariest because in reality it's for all the marbles. The Oath and Law give the program noble purpose. With god, learning the virtues of the law is between the scout and his god. Without god, a scouts promise is tied to the mood of the adults that day. Barry

Hey, that is a pretty good post. Thanks. Oh, "On my honor, I will do my best. To do my duty to God and......" Barry

I’m going to agree with David, your posts support the point that without god, humans can only feel good about themselves by beating each other up. Did you purposely leave god out of the discussion because god, not religion, was the original reference? You seem to be doubling down on the man vs man of religion. Ok, man has a problem with pride, that’s given. The point that was presented is that man is fickle and a unperfect, god is perfect and unchanging. So where should a scout go to define values? Please don’t throw the religion analogy at the question again, this is about who a scout should trust more, God or yourself? And you don’t need to answer, its a thought provoking question. Barry

Ya but, hmm. You know, the adults never pushed. I’m not sure if it the ridiculousness of it, or we kind of wanted him to try. Honestly I was more worried about attracting bears than him struggling up Old Baldy. But I think it was the laughing from the Philmont Ranger that did the trick. I’m sure every one of us at that age was obsessed with something about our appearance. Barry

If god isn’t given responsibility for values, then responsibility goes to the human with the biggest stick. Human values change from moment to moment depending on their mood and emotion. God never changes, which give scouts a consistent source. Barry