Eagledad

>>Why 10-fold? Why not 2-fold...as in once for untrained men and once for untrained women?

>>The problem is that introduction is just that... an introduction.

>>The two new guys have no ties (older brother, friends, etc.) with the troop. Any help, advice, suggestions, as always, are greatly appreciated.

>>Among the classes I attended were "First Class, First Year", "How to Retain Older Scouts", and "The Patrol Method.">All things that should be and are covered elsewhere, and very little on the intended subject of the course.

Our experience is two new scouts can be added to a patrol before it adversly affects patrol dynamics. Our troop likes to mix new scouts into existing patrols unless we get more new scouts than two per patrol, or the new scouts just want to start their own patrol. Sounds like a pretty good SPL. Barry

Next to women in troops, bugling was a difference that really stuck out from experience as a youth. Even among 20 troops a camporees, not a single bugler. We tried really hard to get one in our troop and we had a couple, but they were nothing like the buglers we had in the 70s. Sometimes back then, we had two at a time which can make you tingle if done well. Yes, I'm afraid it is a lot art. Barry

Go to other troops close by and trade counselor list. This way you are going outside your troop but still getting experienced counselors. Barry

>>I've seen one troop where the Troop Scribe was responsible, working with the advancement chair.

Wow, there is some great stuff being written. Not to long ago there was a thread where we discussed the time it takes to build a Boy Run program. I think for those of us who have gone from rags to riches, we felt it was between 6 to 10 years. There is a reason it takes so long. You are building a cultural philosophy within your troop. Just because you say scouts are in charge doesnt mean they fully understand what that means. It is important to understand that boy run is different for each one of us and boys do not have any control of how boy run they can go. Its totally up to the adults

Boy, sounds like you are doing everything right. That you talked to the scouts dad about his behavior tells me more about you and your style of scouting than anything else you wrote and Im impressed. Most adults need to understand that you are just one member of the families team in raising their son. I was very close to my scouts, but they knew there were no barriers between me and their parents when it came to their performance. We are all in this together. As for your questions, its hard to add to EagleInKy. your are visiualizing a perfect patrol. In reality, what you get is not near a

>>cool activities including the new "Bikeathalon" where you ride a mountain bike with an air gun on your back and then you stop occasionally to shoot, much like the Olympic event, the Biathalon, except with bikes.

>>Maybe instead of presenting it in the church basement with powerpoint slides and bought pizza it would work better at camp or at least at the park and the boys cook their own lunch? just an idea to put the outing back in Scouting

>> Yah, first you need to get documentation from dad, and perhaps ask permission to speak to the treating physician/psychologist. This has nothin' to do with rank advancement, this is so that your adult (and key youth) leaders understand the boy's condition & medications enough to be able to help, support, and keep him safe on trips.

>>I no of NO ONE who uses flag signalling anymore, and that includes a couple of Fourth World threat nations.

Of course many have read my opinions of the Venturing Patrol and older scouts in general in the Troop. Im glad you mentioned the Cub Scout program and its effects on future Troops Eammon, that tells a lot about your insite learned from your experience. When the BSA change the Tiger program about 5 or 6 years ago, I was curious if that was going to negatively effect the Troop numbers. I am not involved enough to know, but I wish more folks would at least understand how little changes can make big waves. I agree with you that older scouts 16 and older are difficult for the troop program. I

>>And if an completed blue card came back without my signature I would have to question the Scout as to what he learned & why he switched counselors.

>> If the MB has the final word what is it the SM is signifying with his second signature? Remember the requirement for Star is to EARN 6 merit badges not obtain 6 merit badge application cards signed by an approved MBC.

John-in-KC ask some good questions, and if everything is on the up and up, the short answer is the MB Counselor has the last say. The SM's signature is first on the card before the scout meets the counselor, the counselors signature is last after the scout completes the requirements. If the SM feels the counselor isn't doing a good job, he doesn't have to approve him/her the next time. Barry

This is really interesting. A small council next to our council is offering a non-Sunday Wood Badge, mostly intended for LDS, but anyone was invited and welcome. It is completely full. Now it is a small council and they only offer WB once every two years, but everyone is amazed because it fill up so fast. And the course I'm on this Spring may benefit from that course because there is a long waiting list, so they just may hop over to our course instead of waiting two more years. Great letter that was fun to read. Barry

My gosh, you guys cant imagine how much my heart cheers for you and your programs. Since my phrase motivated this thread, I feel I need to tell yall the bad news and the good news. First the bad news is, all of you are in the Box Seat now sitting in your easy chair. The good news is all of you are now in the Box Seat sitting in your easy chair. A few weeks ago, I cant remember the subject, but one poster said, Calm seas do not make good sailors. A guardian cant be someone who stands in the background guarding someone elses vision. You are there now, you are in your moment of glory because

Good responses by Longhaul and Ma, and I would like to add that the SM approval is also a nice requirement for scouts, or worse, parents signing up their sons without the Troops knowledge. It is a delicate situation, but the scoutmaster requirement can be a safety value for the council to find out what is really going on. Once in a while it was a SM who just didn't care and the Scout just wanted more training. That gets tricky also, but you can learn a lot by just talking to the SM. It's more of a council judgement, but I think SM signiture is good to have. Barry

Gotta say Scoutmaster was best for me. I think the reason is because the Scoutmaster has the best view of the vision becoming reality. Its like being on top of the hill; you have the gods-eye view of everything. Unfortunately, along with a great view comes a heavy burden of being guardian of the vision. When I was ASM, I willingly gave up some of that view because the sacrifices required for a Box Seat ticket can be great. But once a person commits to shouldering the burden, they learn to balance the load, and relish game. Saying all that, I admit working with older scouts is a very close

>>The new leaders seem excited about being trained, but trying to get the people who are experienced to come is like pulling teeth.

>>Started doing that some 50 years ago when I was breaking and training horses. That is how my dad made us break in our boots. Never have had a pair of boots that gave me blisters.

We had four years in a row with almost that many new scouts and we learned a lot. We didnt handle it right our first year and lost over 50% of the new scouts in the first six months. A lot of how you deal with this situation has to do with the number of scouts you already have. If your new scouts out number the rest of the troop, consider the troop brand new because the troop dynamics will have to change to keep up. This is a great time to have an adult leader meeting to review the troop program, the vision, mission, goals and so on. Then have a PLC meeting that includes adults to get e