Eagledad

>>Having the boys start together in one patrol and keeping them together gives them the best chance of forming that tight group. This is the foundation of the patrol method.

Hi all. Here is something I wrote on the subject a few years ago based from our experience of growing from 12 scout to 80 in five years. It has been posted on someone elses Web site, which is how I found it again. Troop size and Troop program (Facts & Myths) by Barry Runnels Everyone has a preference and can list the pros or cons of each unit, with regard to size and program. There are some very fine units with all numbers of Scouts. Usually what makes a unit great is a group of adults who focus on what the Scouts get out of the program, not what the adults get. Each one of us has had our own experiences through life, our own way of doing things and our own way of handling situations. We are called Scoutmasters because we supposedly have mastered our life from our experiences. Scouting allows us to hand down what we have learned. How the dominating adults hand those experiences down to the Scouts is going to determine what kind of program your troop will have. Your troop will form itself to a size that fits the program. If you work to be a true boy run troop, you will probably never get larger than 50 ACTIVE Scouts. The SPL in a truly boy run troop can only handle a maximum of 50 Scouts. Really 40 is better. You can rearrange, move around and split groups all you want, but in the end, if the SPL is in charge, 50 Scouts is the limit. Anything more, requires adults to get more evolved with the day-to-day program. If your goals are a large troop and boy run is not a primary concern, then your troop will handle that large number. Whether they know it or not, and most don't, it's usually the Scoutmaster who determines the size of the troop by how he guides the program. If a Scoutmaster works through the Patrol Leader Council, the troop will grow to a size the PLC can manage. Increases beyond that will cause the program to suffer and the Scouts and parents will leave for a better program until the numbers fall to a size the PLC can manage. If the SM works the program though PLC and ASMs, it will grow to that size. If the SM works through the adults, the unit may grow very large. The adults in a troop need to agree on what they want the Scouts to get from the program. If it's rank and advancement, then it can be more of an adult-run program that will handle lots of boys. If leadership and behavior are more of a priority, then a troop may have to slim down a bit to allow the Scouts to learn from their actions. A few myths: There is a myth that you should feel obligated to accept large numbers of incoming scouts so they can enjoy your wonderful program. The truth is, if the troop size greatly changes, your program will change. Logistics, equipment, number of Patrols and adult leaders will change just to keep up. If the adults and scouts are not ready, you will loose about 25% of your Scouts while the troop leadership scurries to catch up. Your wonderful program may no longer be so wonderful. If you do expect a large influx of new scouts, your leadership should plan now so you don't get lost when they do come. And prepare for a different program that fits your new size. Not necessarily better or worse, just different. Another myth is that you have to keep your numbers low to stay boy-run. Well, yes and no. As I write this, we are the third largest troop (in our district) hovering around 80 Scouts. And we brag to be very boy run, maybe the most boy run troop in the district. But any given time through of the year, we average about 40 to 50 Scouts at meetings. Sports and other outside activities keep us to that number. So the program is still manageable for the SPL and we maintain avery active boy run program. Another myth is that that splitting your program solves the big troop problems. Not really. We looked at this several different ways and talked to a lot of units who did it. Every unit said that it doubles the logistical problems of the troop for the leadership. The split didn't really solve many of the big troop problems except space. In fact, every leader said the program still felt big and the problems tripled because the communication and management became more critical. Even though each group was smaller, they were still run like big groups, so they still lost the Scouts and adults who wanted a small group program. Units that liked and worked well with the split program had more than 200 Scouts. That's a lot of scouts. You might go this way, but don't expect to solve your big group problems. Splitting the troop just allowed the big troops to get bigger. If you split, I suggest splitting into a whole new troop with a different charter. STILL difficult, but it forces each adult to focus on one troop and one program. Yet another myth is that you have to take every Scout that comes to your troop. You don't. You don't have to do anything. We have never turned a Scout away from our troop, but I always give visitors names of 4 or 5 other troops in town. I know how important it is to find a troop that fits the family. Those troops are grateful for the help (and isn't being helpful the Scouting way)? Some troops control size by high initial dues. Some control it by only inviting a small limited number of Webelos Dens. Troops that I have seen turn away Scouts up front usually regret it later by the reputation developed from that method. What I am trying to say is you don't really have much control on numbers. You can try, but it's difficult. You do have a lot of control on your program. And your program will probably control your numbers. The adults need to sit down and discuss goals, and your experience in the program that will lead you to those goals, (as will training and help from other sources). You need to decide what you want the boys to get out of their experience in your troop and build your plan of action to reach those goals. This may all seem vague and difficult, but if you don't do it, you will regret it later when you're r standing there watching 100 screaming scouts running around waiting for the program to kick in. Gather your adults and ask them to speak openly about where they want the program to go. Agree on a plan and explain that plan to everyone in your troop and visitors to your troop. Then drive the program, with your PLC, to that plan. Eventually your numbers will fit into the program that comes from your plan. Of course the plan will change on the way to your goals, but that is a given. Just recognize the need for a plan and to have everyone working towards it. Ask for prayers, they help a lot. Ask for help from Scouts_L, there is a lot of experience there.

>>I can't help but wonder though, if they keep deferring based on a lack of experience, at what point are they ever going to feel "ready" for that responsibility?

>>When you talk to your Council's Scouting for Food organizer, you might want to ask him to remind Units to attach a note to each bag with their unit # and of course a word of thanks for donating food.

Im one of those who staffed to plant seeds. I think this is one of the best youth programs a boy can take, so I felt the best way to help get more boys into scouting was to train more adults in such a way that they love scouting as much as I do. You are only one person, but what you do at Wood Badge or any course will have an effect on hundreds of our sons. If you dont staff, nothing may be lost, but you wont have a chance to have a positive effect either. I love this scouting stuff Barry

Sounds like your in a really good troop Beav. Have a great day. Barry

>>It is announced that Mr or Mrs So and So will be teaching the Personal Management MB on X night over the next X weeks if anyone wants to sign up. They are always done outside of troop meetings and it is up to the boy to decide to sign up.

I like the sound of your program Seattle, it's a down to earth fun kind of program. You know I was thinking about our troop, just because a troop doesn't do MBs doesn't mean it shouldn't do a couple MBs a month. We tried to sponser to MBs a month in our Troop. An adult would announce to the scouts that he was leading a MB class. He would give them his/her name and a number so anyone interested could call. He then would talk with the scouts and arrange a schedule. Worked pretty well and the troop sponsors at least 24 badges a year. Barry

>>I have a real issue with my son's Troop in that they do MB's at one meeting a month. This is 100% arranged by an adlt leader. The adult's decide which MB's are going to be offered and an adult calls up a councilor (all inhouse Troop councilors) and sets up the classes.

>>One meeting and 2 weekends won't take that much away, and if it comes down to making a choice between working on a ticket item and doing something that will benefit the troop, I'll choose the troop without regrets, and I'll still have the advantage of the course experience.

>>It is amusing to see summer camps offering camping as one of their mb's how do they cram 20 nights into 1 week.

>>Darn! Lost another recruit! Enjoy!

Its fine; scouting is a program for individual growth, so there is nothing wrong with self-motivated fast tracking. My experience is these guys usually slow down a little as they get more involved with the other cool stuff the program offers like leadership, troop business, OA, and so on. Watch to make sure they dont burn themselves out to where they hate the thought of advancement. On the other side, also insure they are learning the values that come from advancement as well like patience, follow-through, good planning techniques, communication, documents management and other life skills not coming to mind at this moment. Barry

Either this is a fairly new rule or we just didn't know it because a couple of our crews in the past have had single person tents. I do agree that single tents do add weight and is a good reason to reconsider if you can. The bear and log suggestion is interesting, I always thought dirty scouts smelled like grub worms, now I have support. And, I guess that answers the question of what a bear does with logs in the woods. Beary

>>Further, around here at least, WB is still marketed primarily to troop and crew leaders, with minimal effort to reach out to cub leaders. No wonder they're not signing up in droves.

Complete the course now and your Council has one more resource for staff on their next course. Barry

>>Summer camp partials can be annoying. We tell the Scouts they must try to finish their summer camp partials by the next summer camp or they must try to complete them their. We've had pretty good success this way.

Thanks for the clarification. JLT has been used, in our council anyway, as a generic term for teaching junior leadership. I was the Council Chairman of Junior leadership Training (JLT) responsible for all junior leadership training in the council. Considering half our districts have their own courses that ranged from Brown Sea, Pine Tree, DJLT, and so on, along with units calling their courses anything from JLD to UJLT, it can get mighty interesting trying to force one name on all that training. We use JLT because it would otherwise be impossible to have a reasonable discussion in different units and districts. We even included Den Chief training under the classification of JLT. JLT for us is not just two course is by National; it is part of a leadership method. Of what I understand, calling it TLT allows National some room to create National issued district level course in the future if they decide to do so. DYLT? Now Im sure you can tell Im not a one size fits all kind of guy. Most Council JLT Chairman arent because of the verity of needs of 650 different troops in a dozen different districts. I look forward to Nationals Unit level JLT training, call it what you want. But I would never limit a unit to just that course. Barry

>>Anyone know of any other AV items that could be useful?

>>In a sense I suppose that we would be using the SPL & PL handbooks as our sylabus. Does anyone know why the BSA has removed most information about how a troop runs in the handbook?

>>Sure Barry... I've heard that one before. Now we know the truth. Kudo is your alternate personality... :-) It's nice knowing both of you!

That did the trick, thanks Michelle. I wasn't clicking "Edit your Profile" the second time. OK, looks like we are back in business. Have a great scouting week everyone. Barry

Thanks Beav, I did try that and as you saw, I couldn't find anyplace to change the email address anywhere. Barry

Hi All I can't seem to find the information anywhere else, so I will ask here. I have a new email address, but how do I change that with Scouter.com without creating a new username and password? Thanks in advance for any an all help.

Whoops, In my hurry in the last post, I forgot to delete Kudo and sigh off with Barry. I Love this scouting stuff. Barry