Eagledad

MarkSs reply is right on and exactly what I was going to say. This is a difficult age for boys to take on this kind of responsibility and I think made worse because most of his patrol is the same age. I doubt really that your son is the problem as a leader, but instead the patrol dynamics is the problem. It may be mixed age but if most of the scouts are only 12, likely the patrol isnt very mature. I think this is one of those situations where along with guiding your son as a leader, there needs to be some coaching and guiding of the patrol as a whole. Just getting someone to sit down with the group and ask what is going on will give the boys a chance to explain their side, but almost more importantly give the mentor opportunities to coach these guys on the importance of follow ship, team work and understanding the task of the patrol leader. Its not that it will fix the problem because positive patrol dynamics takes a long time to develop. But it may ease the problems enough so that your son can finish the next couple months. Meanwhile, a search for a good patrol mentor is in order. I say mentor because Ive seen some older scouts do a good job at that role. Hope this helps, I understand the struggle when the SM isnt much of a help. That is his job after all. Barry

>>Eagledad, you are of course correct with the use of acetone instead of alcohol

>>Not to excuse inappropriate behavior - the boy needs some clear limits - but let's work on the adults rather than tossing a disruptive first grader out without some serious effort first to deal with the problem.

I've done this ceremony many times and it is always a hit with the scouts and parents. I do agree, practice, practice practice. Here is a copy of the Post from where I got the ceremony from way back when forums were just starting. Oh, I used a Hiking Stave with clothes pins instead of the two hangers. Let us know how it goes. ------------------------- Magic Neckerchief Graduation Ceremony Script This Ceremony is written for Webelos Graduation to Boy Scouts. With slight modification, it can be used for any level rank advancement. It is written assuming several scouts, but with minor changes could be used for a single scout. Materials: Neckerchief (if using Webelos neckerchief, the Webelos patch must be removed - it holds too much acetone, and will result in burning the part of the neckerchief above the patch) 2 coat hangers and 2 safety pins 1 large mouth Peanut butter jar with lid Acetone Water A lighted candle or advancement log with lighted candles Fire extinguisher Setup: Stretch out the hangers, attach one safety pin to each. Mix the "Magic Water" in the jar. This should be done outside with good ventilation. Keep the lid tightly closed except when dipping the neckerchief. Magic water consists of EXACTLY 40% Acetone and 60% Water (2 parts Acetone to 3 parts Water) You will need an assistant for lights, one for handling the dipping of the neckerchief, and one off-stage with the fire extinguisher (just in case).. When it is time to dip and burn the neckerchief, use the following procedure: 1. Attach the corners of the neckerchief to the hangers with the safety pins. 2. Lightly shake the jar of Magic Water to remix the components. Tightly wad the neckerchief and dip it completely into the jar containing the Magic Water. The whole neckerchief must be wet or the dry part will burn. 3. Squeeze out the neckerchief and quickly extend it, holding the hangers. While this is being done, the lid must be replaced for fire safety. 4. Pass the neckerchief over the flame. Make certain the neckerchief is spread between the wire holders. It cannot be rolled or folded in any part. Make certain that the neckerchief is well in front, or off to the side of you. We used an old broom stick, with the hangars attached to it so that no one had to be real close. If you work quick enough, the whole neckerchief will appear to be engulfed in flames, and the flames will extend several inches above the top of the neckerchief. 5. Shake gently when just the edges remain burning. This will extinguish the flames along the hems, which hold more acetone than the body, due to the additional fabric here. You must move very quickly through steps 2, 3 and 4, or the acetone will evaporate before it can be ignited. The jar of acetone must be kept away from the flame, and be covered at all times except when actually dipping the neckerchief. Acetone is highly flammable. You might want an additional assistant or two to help with this. Practice the steps above outside, before the meeting to make sure that you can get it right when the time comes. It will be embarrassing if the wet neckerchief doesn't burn due to evaporation of the acetone. This trick works because the acetone burns, while the water keeps the neckerchief from burning. Remember that the acetone will evaporate pretty quickly, or you will miss the effect. Script: Tonight Webelos Scouts _____________________ are graduating to boy scouts. Will they come forward with their parents. These young men have completed their Cub Scouting activities. There remains but one test before they may cross the bridge into Boy Scouts. "Have they done everything they can to BE PREPARED?" Deep in the heart of the mountains and deserts of New Mexico, there is an Indian village along side a small stream. The village and the area around it are very green and lush. This is very unusual, for the village is in the middle of a very harsh desert land. While hiking in the area several years ago, I came across this village and stopped by the stream for a rest. There was an old Chief sitting in the sun by the stream, and I asked him: "Why is this area so green and your people so healthy?" The old Chief replied: "The waters of this stream are magical. They assist all who come, by telling the people if they have done everything they need, to be prepared. By hard work with the assistance of these magical waters, my people have done the things needed to be prepared and prosper in life." I thought for a while and said: "I too could use these magical waters, for I know of many young men who are working hard to be prepared for life. Could I take some of these magical waters with me?" The old Chief smiled and nodded. "It is for the youth that these waters are most special." "Take something special from one of the young men who are to be tested and dip it in the water. Pass the special item over the flame, and if the special item burns, but is not consumed, then they have done everything needed to be prepared." From one of the cub scouts before us, we take the Webelos Neckerchief. And dip it in the Magic Water. Then pass it over the flame of the Spirit of Scouting. Scouts, you have passed the test and are prepared to cross over into Boy Scouting. May the Great Spirit of Akela go with you throughout your scouting days.

Actually I thought we lost those Webelos. After Sunday service, our Troop typically works on a service project, advancement for those who want it, and a PLC meeting. Then we break for lunch, break camp and do a game or two of Capture the Flag before we load the cars. But the Webelos and their leaders were so exausted that they left after Sunday service. I was nervious we ran them in the ground. Some of the scouts could barely walk to their cars. I ran into one of the leaders the next day and all she could say was they were all still trying to recover from the weekend. I thought we lost them but a week later I got a call from both Den Leaders that the Webelos told their parents that they didn't want to visit any more troops because they wanted ours. That group had 18 of the 25 new scouts we got that year. The stations were mostly First Class Scout skills. We did the navigation in the canoes, which turned out easier that expected. It was impressive because all the design and planning was done by the scouts. It was a good experience for us because the next year our scouts planned and hosted a Night Trooporee for four other troops. That took the troop six months to get ready. They did that under the Star Trek theme. What a weekend, we got nine inches of rain in four hours time. That was my younger son's first campout and he still remembers it well. But it must have went well because two of the four troops planned a trooporee in their own Council. One of those Trooporees turn into the model their District used for District Camporees for the next few years. Who would have ever thought that the one night camporee campout we did for ourselves would have led to all that the next few years. Wow, does scouting get better than that. Great memories. Barry

>>Many studies show that people without insurance are therefore more likely to postpone medical care until their problem becomes severe, because they want to avoid the 100% out of pocket expense. This ends up being economically inefficient in the long run, both for individuals and for society as a whole

>>The pack leaders are meeting this Sunday and we will discuss this issue.

This is a wonderful post WDL Mom, thank you. I think parents in general underestimate their own kids. I am struggling with this right now with my 16 year old daughter. She is teaching me through a lot of humility to ask first before I assume. I only want add that at first as a SM, I didn't really appreciate the Den Chief experience very much. It was hard for me to monitor their performance and I had some issues with them when I was a Cubmaster. But we started to observe that every scout with Den Chief experience was consistently a better Patrol Leader in their first few months of service then those without the experience. The difference was so significant that we started using the Den Chief position as one form of JLT. I even brought that idea into our Council JLT program when I was the Council JLT Chairman. I look forward to reading stories about your son in future years. Thanks again. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>So we can all deliver a quality program with a focus on basic scout skills, what kinds of Mafeking type adventures does your troop do?

>>Our national health coverage favors the wealthy, while 50% of the country has none.

Also you can design and have an embroidery shop make patches. During my Wood Badge course, our BOB White patrol made patches that read "BOB TRAINED". Oh wait, is this something different? Nevermind. Barry

Most moms go through this one way another. It's normal, at least with most of the moms in our troop. I think there are two reasons for the anxiety and frustration; First I think most moms don't understand the process of the program. That's expected because you weren't a boy scout as a youth, so you don't know how the program works. Oh I know some have talk about how advancement, leadership, patrols and all that other stuff leads to character and Eagles, but it still can be a mystery for those who have not experience standing around the campfire on a cold night talking about the lastest movies and coolest cars. But scouting isn't series of seasons leading to win-loss record like soccer or baseball. Scouting is adventure that is designed for a boy to challenge his dreams and goals all the while learning the behaviors of a man, and not even realizing it. The other problem is understanding the difference in each of your goals. Adults by nature are basically goal driven because survival depends on the success of where we are placed against the other guy. You likely see advancement as at measure of how your son is doing against the other guys. Or at least in reference to the group. Your son on the other has completely different goals. Stature is only important in that he be accepted by the group. Sticking out is risky because it could mean being out of the group. Boys around this age don't really want to stick out, but instead have fun sticking in the group. Your son is lion cub looking to play with the other lion cubs. The last thing the lion cub wants is a serious thought about survival. Not that he isn't growing. He is camping in the wilderness, setting up his tent in the dark and taking care of himself. How many of his friends can brag about all that? He is certainly growing. You want a measurement of stature to see where he stands. He is not ready for stature because at this point in his life, it means little. But that is coming. The time is coming quickly when his vision of life will change and stature will be very important. What you want at that point is for him to have all the tools that will help him succeed. That is where he is right now, learning those tools of being self sufficient, self productive and responsibile toward himself and others. He's doing OK. Growing up into a man takes a little while. But I'm finding that it goes, went a little faster than I would have liked. My sons are men now. I'm not one who believes that scouting is about only your son and you are on the sidelines quietly hoping he does OK. I look at scouting as one of many pieces mom puts in her puzzle of building a man fo her son. You should have an active interest in what your son gets out of the program. You should care and you should have expectations. As a scoutmaster, I tried to get to know the families of my scouts. Rarely did a family not know how things were going with his son in my troop. Good or bad, the parents were on top of it because I loved bragging about their son, and I begged for help when he struggled. I see the Scoutmaster as part of moms team for developing her son into a great man. So you are not wrong in your anxiety of your son's scouting experience. You just don't understand what is expected of you and of him. So ask the questions, learn the program and have have patience. Advancement? Well that is an adult thing. Sitting around the campfire talking about the fish caught that day. That is his thing. That is scouting. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>The jackhammer thing put me at odds with Bob White a long time ago, I thought they were too risky

>>"I just wonder why GSUSA is let off the hook by those who complain about BSA? " Gee. Its very simple. (I asked this question on a prior version of this sort of forum). You see, girls are a 'protected class'. Boys aren't.

In just about all scouting activities, whether it be leading a flag ceremony or an Eagle Project building a gazebo for a nursing home, scouts are basically only limited by the fears of the adults. I try and explain during my training that the real definition of Boy Run from my perspective is the willingness of the adults to let the scouts run their program. All adults have fears and limitations they see of themselves. I do not enjoy rappelling. I tried it and I don't like the fear I feel from it. Should I let that fear limt the boys program? The best boy run troops are the ones where the adults push the program beyound the limits of their fears. How do you do that, you train the adults and scouts to lead and control that activity safely and wisely to remove the fear. Now most of you can see the fear of sending a Patrol of new scouts backpacking in a state park without training, but I know of a new troop that was mostly led by women who struggled to let the scouts even lead a Flag Ceremony without adult help. They could stand the thought of scouts not doing it right. But at the same time, they never trained the scouts because they weren't sure how. What we think is safe for scouts is a matter of perspective from one person to the next. The only way to deal with the fears that limit the scouts program is to train everyone so that we are nolonger afraid. The Jackhammer I think would be a wonderful tool to teach scouts because it is so easy to use safely provided the proper training a safety equipment. It's not that I want boys to learn the jackhammer, it's that I want them to learn the process of how to use tools safely. All tools. Most accidents come from just grabbing the tool and using it without any proper training. Do you know that most scouting injuries come from the saw (adult and scout). And yet the saw is usually the least talked about as far as safety because it's use appears so simple. We need to set an example of respect, not fear. Never say "No", say "Show me how we can do it safely". Barry

>>Mentorship, mentorship, and more mentorship. Adult Association is as much a Method of Scouting as is Advancement.

Our Eagles have been in all PORs of the troop after they got their Eagle. For what ever reason, most of my SPLs jumped into the Troop guide position after their SPL time. Nothing was ever suggested from the adult side, they just did that. And they were really really good. Personally I see pushing the Eagle into JASM a limitation on their growth because many scouts want to go back an old position again to do it better. At the same time, while I understand why the BSA put an age limitation of 16 on JASM, I also see it as a limitation as well. Just like there are some special scouts who deservedly become Eagle at age 14, having to wait for a position that is really their next challenge and opportunity of growth. I did not use the 16 year old restriction. >>My point of view differs from the SM in that I'd like to see these guys who have served multiple times as a PL or as SPL and/or earned their Eagle to recycle back into the troop as Instructors, Troop Guides or ASPL's. Many of the boys see it as a pride and pecking order issue and think it would be going backwards for a former PL or SPL to take a "lower" position.

>>"Please provide the Troop/BSA guidelines on dealing with allegations made by one scout upon another scout and describe how your handling of this matter was consistent with such. Additionally, please explain the review process you undertook and your rationale for recommending to [the SPL] that [his son] be offered a probationary troop position."

About 50% of our Eagles do it. Some do it before the ceremony so the folks have something to watch while waiting for the ceremony to start. Barry

>>As a seventeen year old, presumably lookin' to apply for the organization's highest award within the year, it's worth askin' the boy to think about whether he can do that honestly.

Wow, there is so much that can be said about Scout Mastering. But humble because it is truly a learning experience and if you are to be really good at the job, you must learn from each experience. No matter what, be consistent. If the scout cant trust how you will react when they struggle and fail, they won't seek your wisdom. They won't try to risk failure. For the Scoutmaster, failure is good. Failure is opportunity. We talk so much about letting scouts fail, yet so many adults seem to get angry when they see it. It is easy to lead a troop of perfect leaders, but that isnt scouting. When a boy gets angry, when a boy yells, when a boy gets physical, or when he gets rebellious, that for you is an opportunity. For you see behavior is our job. Remember it is next to impossible to change character. For character to really change; it has to be done from within. But we do have a lot of power to influence conduct. And to learn a thing, we must practice a thing. Give your scouts the opportunities to practice conduct guided by the Scout Law and Oath hoping that they practice it enough to develop habits. From those habits, they have the ability to influence their character. It is hard to express the power you hold because looking at it from your side now, you only have apprehension and vision. You have to rely on passion to feed your one hour a week. But looking at it from my side, I have experience and memories to feed my obsession of scouting. I can say with all my heart that it all really works because I have been there. Trust in the program and trust in yourself because there will be nights you wont be able to sleep from the frustration. You will be rewarded however. They will come when you least expect them and from those you could never imagine. It will be those times that you wont be able to sleep because the grin on your face and from the continuous prayers of thanks. You are now the leader of troop philosophy. What you say goes. For whatever reason, most folks will not question your wisdom, even when it is really just a theory that has not yet been hardened from the fire of experience. You are the magnet where everyone wants to stand. They could ask anyone answers to their questions, but they will go to the Scoutmaster. Why, because until you loose their trust, you are ten feet tall and you know it all. What you say goes and what goes is the Scoutmasters will. In reality you dont deserve it because such power should be earned. But it yours, so be gentle, be humble, be compassionate, be honest, and be brave. A boy is no less and no more than a small chick in your hands. Too much pressure will kill him his will, too little will allow him to fly off to something more appealing. Always let the Scout Law be your guide. Not in words, but in all your actions. Boys dont listen, they only watch. And they watch all the time. You will learn that you are the scoutmaster of families, not boys. The hired you to help in their quest of making thier son into a man. But when you guide the boy, the family will watch, follow and thirst for more. You will find yourself Scoutmastering adults and pull from it. Boys want adventure, adults want everything else. Mothers are the hardest because their nature is to protect their young. Part of that protection is making a trail for their son. YOur job is difficult because a troop is where the boy makes his own trail. Choose your words carefully and mom will let her son take the lead. But challenge her job of protecting her son, you will meet the impassible force. You work for the family, stand your ground and protect your philosphy, but never assume yourself more important than your are. You are the Scoutmaster, but you are only the scoutmaster. There are only few places left where a boy can truly feel good about himself because adults have so much to say about every action a boy makes today. But there is still the troop. A troop needs to be a place of refuge, a place of opportunity and a place where dreams can come true. A troop has to be a place mystery and a place where a boy has the confidence to venture in the dark and safe enough to keep trying. I felt best as a scoutmaster when I knew the boys went home saying I like myself when Im with the Troop. And truly, I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>My take? You're dealing with a lad with low self-esteem, who had another notch at his sense of worth hacked out with the election. I would speak with the boy and let him know you heard what happened, you understand how frustrating it was, that you see this as an expression of that frustration, but that it was an inappropriate way to express that frustration.

>>This may just be semantics, but is there any reason the Troop can't have multiple Quartermasters?

>>I didnt think that this little discussion had any impact but I saw on some of the course evaluations that they thought the presentation of the different views of the Patrol Methods was one of the things that they got the most out of the training.

>>I had just about finished imparting my wise words when a storm came through and knocked out the power. So every thing was lost.