Eagledad

We had four years in a row with almost that many new scouts and we learned a lot. We didnt handle it right our first year and lost over 50% of the new scouts in the first six months. A lot of how you deal with this situation has to do with the number of scouts you already have. If your new scouts out number the rest of the troop, consider the troop brand new because the troop dynamics will have to change to keep up. This is a great time to have an adult leader meeting to review the troop program, the vision, mission, goals and so on. Then have a PLC meeting that includes adults to get everyone on board as a team to the challenges. Be positive because scout sense fear faster than bears in a nudist resort. Try to have contingency plans for dealing with the large influx like camps required for your troop at month camps, summer camps, and driver for traveling. I remember calling the Summer Camp that we waited for two years to get on and telling them we were twice the size that we expected. Logistics takes a big hit with that many new scouts, so start looking for additional tents, stoves and other patrol gear required. You can barrow equipment from other troops. What about the trailer, will it hold up to this? I think Semper gives some really good advice. I respectfully have to say that we found that new scouts dont like to separated from the rest of the troop. That is not the program they visited as Webelos and they want to be part of the whole troop, not separated into new scouts and everyone else. You may be forced into it for some activities, but I would keeping it to a minimum. I believe the risk is worse with the larger number of new scouts. I also suggest getting your parents support and understanding for the coming challenges NOW. Have a parents meeting to explain the good fortune, wonderful opportunities that come with a big troop and the challenges that follow. I would make it positive in that the more scouts, the merrier. Still there are going to be growing pains and you need everyones help and patience to accomplish your vision. I wished we done this the year we lost so many new scouts. It is much better to have parents say, well I guess these are part of the growing pains they talked about, in stead of why in the world is it taking so long for the troop to leave the church. Other troops seem more organized. On a few things for the scouts, when we had a huge influx of scouts, we attached each NSP to a Big Brother patrol. The idea is set up the NSP near its Big Brother patrol to get the help of the whole patrol if needed. In our case, the Troop Guide was part of the Big Brother patrol, but Im not suggesting you do that. Asking the patrols to help the TGs also suggest that all the scouts are responsible for all the new scouts and their challenges. This is kind of important because you are going to see a BIG difference at the next campout. There are going to be new scouts all over the place and the older scouts dont take well to the disruption of change. So prepare them and ask for their help to make this the best troop in the district. Then reward their efforts. I once stopped and bought all the scouts a coke on the way home from camp just to say thanks. I look forward to reading your future post. We all can learn from them. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

Sounds like an impressive young man and I guess we adults must be doing a really good job if those are the kinds of suggestions youth wants adults to hear. However, that was not the kind of suggestions I heard from older Scouts at JLTC. I'm not sure what I called the scouts, but I know my heart was to treat them with same respect as I did adults. Scouts can tell when you're patronizing no matter what words you use. My philosophy about scouts feeling good about themselves was for them to earn that feeling with a job well done and by serving those around them, not from anything an adult said. Have a great day. Barry

The BSA has an age requirement for JASM (16), but we ignored it. For us, JASM was an indication of maturity, experience and attitude. To put an age requirement would be restricting some really good scouts. Our JASMs were scouts who wanted troop responsibilities, had mastered the leadership skills developed in the seniour scout postions like SPL and Troop Guide, and were ready for the next step of advising scouts, not leading them. In most cases, the scout choose what he could offer or do for the troop. We had JASMs helping the Advancement Chairman, the PLC, CheerMasters and Grubmasters, JLT and Troop Guides. In each of these positions, the JASM basically had the responsibilities of the adult adviser. I looked at it kind of as on the job training for the ASM. My suggestion is look for a weakness in your program, design a plan to help fix that weakness by guiding the scouts. Present the plan to the SM with you being a JASM. By the way, I am impressed with your troop using older Troop Guides. We found using mature older scouts makes a big difference in the success of new scout performance. Barry

>>I use a pair of knee high womens nylon stockings ($.99) first, then a pair of Kmart mens nylon dress socks (3@$3.99) followed by a pair of Kmart mens polyester dress socks(3@$3.99). The nylon allows my foot to move slightly and eliminates blisters, for me. The nylon dress socks wick perspiration and the polyester socks cushion to a degree.

Wow, Been there and done that, threw away the T-shirt. It's hard to imagine that we adults don't think a like. It's even harder to understand that the adults don't think like me. Later on when the emotional cloud burns away, you will see that it's not really set back because the boys got it. The adults probably never did. But!, the boys got it. I have always spouted that our every step forward was preceeded with three steps back. In fact I sometimes wonder if our struggles were by design so that I could later get on some national forum and start out with "been there and done that". If I had to do it all over again, I would only do one thing different and that is spend more time with the adults than the scouts. In fact, most who have read my stuff long enough know that I have said several times that scoutmastering is 51 % working with the adults. I have always felt EagleInKY that you have a talent and gift for scoutmastering. From the begining you have lead a troop most scoutmasters would be proud of. You can't have maturity without growth and you can have growth without growing pains. What you are going through is normal for a visonary person like you because while you have a clear picture of the goal, the others haven't quite got there yet. And they won't unless paint the picture over and over. Imagine someone leading you into a dark cave saying, trust me, I know where we are going. You are very good at what you are doing. Your scouts are lucky to have you. All that being said, you still have a lot of work. Maybe this is more of a red flag that while you have given the boys the independence they need to grow, you haven't given them enough to give you time with the adults. Be and artist, color inside the lines for the adults so they see your picture. Hold their hands and pull them through your thoughts and ideas. Make them partners in your vision and not just passengers along for the ride. Trust me in that I know how hard it is to try an idea hopeing it works with the scouts and not really pulling the adults along because of the time involved. Its hard enough putting the boys through it, but to pull the adults as well? I'm not saying the adults will buy-in as you and everything will change. In fact I think it will be slow. But at least they might be more willing to give it a try. Now all this is not to say that you are the problem. We all know by your post and excellent guidence in the forum that you are talented and a natural for the job. But if I had to do it over again, I would have spent more time teaching aims, methods, boy run, and my VISION for each boy in the troop. Over and over again I would be saying it to the point that the adults were doing impressions of me behind my back. It's time for a meeting with the adults. Lay it all out, your dream, your ideas to progress forward, your fears and you frustrations. The boys are doing there job, now it's time for the adults to do theirs. Show them the growth and show them why. Make them get it. You have one of the best boy run programs in your district, not its time they understand why. You are on the edge of the best scouting a SM can have. It's when the troop gets into the older boy program that the scouts grow by leaps and bounds. Mostly because they aren't boys anymore, they are men trying to be men. The next year will be great and the next after than will be fantastic. You will be amazed and you and your adults will feel very blessed. So get the adults to hold on a little longer. If they are to reap the bounty that is about to be offered, they must to hold course a little longer. As for you, let it rest a few days. Give enough time for the emotions to fade away so you can see the reality of the weekend. It wasn't really all that bad, it was just a little red flag showing a couple bugs in the program. Just a little fine tuning really. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>The troop has made a number of trips to NT and they say anything less will not fall apart by the 2nd or 3rd day and will get sucked off in the moose muck, leaving you shoeless for the rest of the trip.

I'm not so sure. I think what hiking boots have over other types of hiking footware is ankle support. But I think that applies to rough rocky trails or a lot of stream crossings. Philmont is pretty much packed trails with just a few stream crossings. Our Trail Guide a Philmont wore Teva hiking sandals as well as many of the other Trial Guides. And some just wore tennis shoes. Those guys/gals put in a lot of miles each summer. My 45 year old adult partner at Philmont had blisters so bad by the third day, he was considering quiting and leaving the group. He decided to first try out his pair of Teva sandals he brought for camp shoes and had very little trouble the rest of the trek. I have a pair of really good Salomon Hiking Boots that I love to wear, but if and when I go back to Philmont, I think I will take my very light and very comfortable Salomon river shoes. I wore them on a Northern Tier canoe trip up in Canada last September where we took an agressive nothern route. With a canoe on my shoulders most of the time, I portaged some of the toughest trails I have ever hiked and I can honestly say even with the rocky trials, my feet were never more comfortable. I do agree that good soles, socks and sock liners are very important and we push this very hard on our crews. I have never had a hot spot in the last 15 years after using good socks and liners. I don't know, but the quality of hiking foot gear today is really good. A light pair of hiking shoes or sandals that can handle a 50 lbs pack is pretty tempting for Philmont type terrain. Have a great weekend. Barry

>>Works great, unless you're a very small troop.

>>I then immediately had a talk with older brother then about how it "appears" when family members sign off on requirements (especially for 2+ ranks!!) and requested that he not do that anymore.

>>At our last jamboree there was a mild epidemic of dysentary.

We once had a cook burn supper while playing cards. After that, the new rule was the cook swills the cook pots. Never had a burned meal again. By the way, did anyone look at the scout Handbook to what they suggest for cleaning dishes. Not that it is the best, because I found it does conflict with the dept. of health, but I still rather send a scout to find the informatin than sit debate about it. I don't have the book next to me, but I think it suggest sanitizing second then rinsing. Dept. of health reverses that. Barry

>>The adult leaders do retest the boy's on some of the more difficult requirements just to keep them honest.

>> Crikey! Can you imagine the backlog of work the SM would have if he/she got into the power thing, and didn't allow ANYONE else to sign off?!?

Very impressive Beav. I agree with all the post, but as a Cub Master for a few years, I found that families tend to get lost with the differences of troops after about four different visits. I knew we were visiting too many troops when the Webelos were picking troops by the best games they did at their troop meetings. I might suggest you pick the best four to six troops. I used to find out who had the most consistant programs then send our scouts to see an example of the biggest, smallest, most boy run, and least boy run. I also knew which troops didn't mind handicap scouts or troops that had a long tradition of stability. Then, I suggested parents visit other troops if they knew of one they were interested in but we didn't visit. I think it is pretty important to get the parents involved, althought there is always at least one that just doesn't care. There was always several scouts who didn't make a decision until the last minute. Challenging for the CM wanting to bring a Troop leader for crossover, and also challenging for the SM who was called to recieve a new scout, but changed his mind at the last moment. I had a few times where I went to a crossover and came back with more new scouts than expected. I learn to take more books and neckerchefs than expected. Good luck with your Webs. Barry

>>They can experience living with the other 50% of the population and mistakes are expected. No pressure to learn and no exams to pass either. Maybe they will understand women more when they marry one and the divorce rate might drop.

>>Do some troops choose to go with mixed patrols because they can't or don't know how to staff these positions?

Wow, maybe I shouldn't even be clogging up the forum traffic when I don't realy have a good reply, but knowing the kind of person you are, I think you cantrust your heart to start you in the right direction. I've always felt that loving your neighbor as you love yourself is always a safe starting place. Barry

>>We were given strick instructions by the course director to stick to the syllabus and would like to know where I can find this.

>>Eagledad- What are you doing differently than how the BSA guidelines say it should be done?>I dont remember any training where we were told to go ahead and experiment with different things until we found something that works.

>>No, Barry! I insist that it was my bad for making you a "little angry" with me and forcing you to speculate on what my feelings must have been when I made you so, um, "angry."

>>So the advantage of a free market economy is that if you want your girls (or boys) to experience backpacking as a standard part of their Scouting program, you could choose Baden-Powell Scouting which still retains Baden-Powell's original expedition Advancement requirements. These have been dumbed-down and out of the BSA. But look up the First Class requirements in old BSA Scout Handbooks and you will find the BSA's version of Baden-Powell's "First Class Journey".

>>We are experimenting with using temporary "Super" patrols (more than 8 or 10 for a short time) instead of a NSP this year

>>In fact I have found that having girls present brings some reality to the machismo. Being dressed down by a young woman for being a foul mouthed abusive and chauvanist adolescent tends to smarten up the rare twit who forgets what respect means.

>>The boy who has served as a PL (elected, not the one month "trial") usually has great difficulty in that leadership patrol but that makes him a much better patrol member in the future. He can relate to what the PL is going through.

>>Yah, but FScouter, you're making a bunch of assumptions there, eh?