Eagledad

>>The people who spoke up at the committee meeting actually surprised me because one is a former SM who is usually the one pushing "boy led" and the other is a longtime ASM and probably a future SM (both are on the committee for now). Upon reflection my best guess is that they spoke up when and where they did because the SM did not. Maybe the comments they made were really more a nudge/push for the SM to do a better job of communicating with his SPL.

>>The committee members seem like the only ones who overstepped bounds here, stepping on the SM's and SPL's turf. Chances are the boys know more about boys' backgrounds and what's really necessary for "other patrols' needs" than committee members do. If there's some feedback or additional information to give, it's da SM's role, not the committee's.

>>The inescapable fact is that the overwhelming majority of such climate scientists believe that climate change is a serious problem and that human activities are a major cause. There are a few scientists who disagree, as there generally are with any broad scientific consensus.

>>I guess in your troop if the QM can't be there, the whole troop doesn't go because they don't have a key for the trailer.

>>The SPL will be discussing a change of QM POR this Tuesday with the SM.

I had the same response to that subject. Our troop has two historians because they do a troop newsletter among other duties, and our two scribes update the Web Site, among other duties. I will say that these are challenging responsibilities and require well trained adult counselors. We modified the responsibilities of those jobs and other so that the experience had value toward developing growth in behavior and leadership. If the adults don't see that happening, something should be changed. We talk a lot about SM assigned PORs, but I think this is misused as well. I don't think ask

>>How would the boy know that the troop adults expect him to arrange for a BOR? The boy's Handbook tells him "your Scoutmaster will arrange a board of review for you" (for Tenderfoot) and is silent for the other ranks.

>>The Eagle COH is the Scouts responsibility; just like you stated. After he his EBOR, tell him to give you a call and let you know when the date for his EBOR is determined.

>>While advancement is the measuring stick many use for the program, I see it as just one of the many tools we have to help develop young men.

>>Our troop is taking a high-adventure trek to the Pecos Wilderness in the Sangre-de-Cristo Mountains this summer. We are staying a day in Santa Fe to do some sight seeing and get acclimated to some higher elevations before we take off on our trek.

>>Despite claims to the contrary, we really DON'T embrace diversity, do we?

>>1) Has anyone ever done/seen the NYLT split up over several weekends. That seems like a good way to schedule it for maximum participants, and around adult and youth staff work schedules. But, to me, I think splitting the course up would be a net negative.

Yes and we moved it. You would be surprised how few weeks there are to choose from. Wood Badge itself takes up six of the weeks in our council. The best weeks to get camp are in the middle of summer after summer camp. But, those weeks are taken up by family vacations and high adventure. So we got creative. We started experimenting different weeks. We tried Fall Break, Christmas Break and Spring Break. When I left the program we were doing Fall Break and Spring break. But Christmas had a very good turn out as well. The thing about Fall and Spring breaks is they are close to the Wood Badge cours

>>The discussion died down with the suggestion that maybe we try to insitute your idea with the younger Scout's, that the troop will pay for tham to go to NYLT once they turn 13y/o, and that it would be a prerequesite for ASPL and SPL. If they opt not to go, they can be a Guide, Scribe etc., but not SPL or ASPL.>> Hi All This is a pretty interesting discussion. I spent several years involved with troop and council JLT, which at the time was called JLTC in our Council. I also communicated with a lot of Councils comparing their JLT programs and performances. Many if not mos

>>That's fine - they should see what a PL is supposed to do, except for attending PLC's.

>>Our local camp has done away with the axe and has restricted wood cutting to just buck saws. Full handled shovels are also included.

>>Ok, there I have said it. I am crossing the Atlantic in a canoe.

>>The TG should be like a guy looking to be replaced. That is, in the beginning he should be basically a Patrol Leader. Gradually he should be move away from the PL role to an Instructor role. The NSP-SA should be just like the Scoutmaster of a truly boy-led troop. He should be in the deep background, only coming forward to make the occasional inspirational message or present a recognition. He should be available to the TG and PL for advice and guidance, but they should have to come looking for him. And of course he should be available for the usual conferences with individual Scouts.

>>When the following years cross oversarrive, the OBS Patrol moves out of New Scout Patrol status and becomes a "regular patrol", they now participate in a different program, but they are still with their buddies. In three years, they graduate to the level of a Venture Patrol. The same eight scouts, in the same patrol, who have stayed together with the program that the troop offered to it changing as the boys matured

Well! I apologize Gonzo1, my advice doesnt fit your situation at all. Your problem is not really a PLC high-jacking problem, it is purely an adult problem. It is very difficult to give advice when we cant see the dynamics of the adults, but I can see how frustrating this is. How does this mother get so much power? How does she hold so much respect and is it her good oh boys club? My one quick suggestion is to somehow get across to CC and SM to get all adult leaders trained. Then bring in a district trainer who will spend a lot of time on the boys part of the program. It is a way of sneak

I think Beavah's reply works temporarily for the immediate situation, but usually there is more than one adult thinking this way. And usually they act this way more out of ignorance, not self serving aggressiveness. Happens a lot when a unit gets a few new adults who have a strong personality and they take off in a direction they think is appropriate for the program. They just need a little education. When this happened in our troop, I asked the CC to give me 20 minute on the next committee meeting agenda to teach Aims, Methods, and BOY RUN. We didn't have any trouble after that. By the w

From Kudu >>Start by telling this problem Scout the truth: a BSA Troop is NOT "boy-led," it is adult-led. BSA adults do not believe in B-P's Patrol System, so they took all the evaluation powers away from the Patrol Leaders and gave them to themselves. BSA leaders call their Patrol Leader powers "Adult Association." >Patrol elections are a BSA invention dating back to the period before the BSA used the "Patrol Method," when the Handbook for Scout Masters advised "Scout Masters" to keep their Patrol Leaders completely powerless and PLs had only a symbolic "team captain" function.>

>>the BSA has the adult-led method called "Adult Association" which is a collection of powers taken away from the Patrol Leaders and given to the adults by the adults.

>>It is designed not to develop kids in as much as to keep parents and kids happy.

>>Since the BSA program, which is used for TLT, states an adult will sign off, I don't see how that can be seen as "emasculating" the PL.