Eagledad

>>Frankly, some of the comments and reactions here leave me with the impression that bad training and disorganized adult-led troops are much more common than good training or effective boy-led troops. So I have to be careful not to burn any bridges.

I''m with lisabob and funscout on this. I support your pack''s decisions Pack212scouter because I''ve been where you are at. We never turned away a scout, but I think we wished we had. I took a personal responsibility to make sure our Den Leaders only had what they could handle because they are the key to success of the pack. Still things don''t always work out and I personally had 17 Webelos that required so much dedicated work that I wouldn''t wish that experience on my enemies. Not that I have enemies. But just as important, I had to ask a few adults to quit their den leader positions

>>Why would you lower the expectations?

>>How, then, do you get all the scouts you put into positions to actively fullfill their position. Is it something along the lines of if the scouts don''''t at first fullfill their position they are not put into a new one until the promise to do better?

I''m so sorry. You touched my soul. I''ll pray that God mends your heart.

>>Also if there is additional coaching because of this, why is that bad?>As adults we are suppose to be coaching and allowing our scouts to develope into leaders.>If this only last a few months, then it at least it lasted a few months. It will show the Senior Patrol Leader, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, and other leaders that they have the power to introduce new guidelines, policies, and important decisions to the troop by going through the Patrol Leader''''s Council and then working with the Troop Committee.

When our troop started getting a little bigger, many of the parents started complaining about kids leaving their cars trashed out. So we started going to a carwash before we got home from campouts so the scouts could clean the cars with their own money to the satisfaction of the driver. After a few months we quick doing that (except for summer camp) because all of a sudden the problem went away. Use this as an opportunity to teach trust, loyalty, courtesy, and kind. Teach the scouts a new habit of behavior to help develop their character. Don''t yell, jump up and down or get angry, just

>>What are your views and suggestions? This goes to our Unit Committee at this month''''s Committee Meeting. The scouts have already started following the motions of this evaluation.

>>So here is our basic plan.... -Conduct a Troop Leadership Training weekend camping trip very soon. We are planning on two weeks from now...>-Engage our new PLC in planning a year of Scouting. Currently, we have a hard time getting them to plan more than a month. Plus, adult priorities always seem to override their plan.>-Support the new youth leaders. This will very likely involve coaching and mentoring the older Scouts who have effectively abdicated any formal leadership role, and preventing them from undermining their elected leaders. We will also need to protect the boys fr

You could try and suggest a slight change of tradition to present the patches at the next meeting and the card with a mothers pin at Blue&Gold. This is kind of what our troop does. The SPL presents the badge to the scout after they pass the BOR (usually that night). Then at the banquet, the SM presents the mothers pin to the scout for him to pin on his mother, which is great fun for all. Covers all bases, especially mom. Barry

You''re getting great advice. We had a pack of 120 scouts and did two campouts a year. One small one in the fall then our big one in the Spring. I don''t want to repeat what others are saying, so I will pass along the huge difference we found between the troop and the pack. Cub scouts requires a lot more planning because a large number of parents haven''t camped in years. They will need as much hand holding the camping part as the boys. Some families may not have access to tents. A local troop usually will help, and might even be glad to send some scouts to help set up. I will add that ca

>>From the "Are they ALL important?" thread: "Barry - you are employing the Method, and I applaud you." I guess we see what we want to see.

>>"Boys want to know what they can expect from you as their Scoutmaster, and what you expect from them. Strive to be consistent in word and action." Scoutmaster Handbook He didn''''t lose any respect for me, but I have lost respect for you thanks to your post. How you can make such broad assumptions based on so little information is simply astounding.

>>And every kid''''s experience will be different. Scouting cannot pretend to be providing just one gender of role model because of some perceived gap elsewhere. We really have no idea in most cases.

>>So if Scouting is designed to prepare boys to be men, it certainly would seem appropriate for them experience female leadership early on.

>>For anti-uniform folks, try sending your kid to football with his jersey and pads, but a motorcycle helmet and blue jeans instead. See what happens next.

>>The issue I see is when Football season morphs into Basketball morphs into baseball and the scout is always late, then I agree with your questioning if scouting is worthwhile, but for a few months? I think the program can handle it

>>So women should be viewed as second stringers, bench warmers?

From your answers, I think a merge will work. But, you and the CM? First each pack needs to get the committee on board. I know how some units run and that may be a no brainer. But trust me that this is what the council will tell you to do anyway. Then if all is well, call a meeting of parents for each pack. That will be the test of how well it works. I suggest the committees of the other pack attend each parent meeting to show support and answer questions. You MUST have the DE and UCs attend as well. It always looks better if you can get the Council Executive too. The meeting must be specific.

Hi mkahler I hate merges and splits. They are emotional and rarely is everyone happy. Maybe you can help make this go easier. Questions: How many scouts in each pack? Do both packs function OK or is one a lot better then the other? Have you polled the adults in both Packs and how they feel about it? Have you considered two packs under one charter and meet on different nights? I will add that recruiting is a pain if you considered that. Is one pack older then the other, more tradition? Would the families of one pack have to drive a long ways to the other school? A

>>This makes for unbalanced terms, but there is much less for the elected leadship to do in the summer.

>>Aquila: Woman don''''t belong running the troop, nor sitting in at PLC meetings.

>>Barry: I was very much impresseded that you had 150 boys in your unit.

>>One suggestion is to provide a copy of the SPL handbook to all adults that feel a need to be present at a PLC meeting and request they read it with an eye to finding their role in supporting the SPL.

>>Let me ask this question: for those who have seen uniforming improve over time in a troop, what was the cause? Adult leadership, youth leadership, improvement in other elements leading to more esprit? I''''d be curious to know.