Eagledad

>>I am amazed at the popularity of patterned/colored duct tape among scout-aged boys. Just expect to see it on everything. My son currently has his entire hat duct taped in different patterns.

>>There are a few packs round here with great Tiger programs, year after year. In almost every case, their Tiger DL is a long-term leader and not a parent from that year's crop of Tigers. I believe a couple of folks on this board (ScoutNut?) have done that, too. Seems to work.

Its interesting that you dont really mention the Wolf and Bears. That is very typical with most packs because those programs are designed pretty well for getting maximum performance with minimal effort from the adults. However, Tigers and Webelos are the opposite in that they are heavily weighted on the adult side because they require more adult skills and adult time to get acceptable results. We approached the Tiger problem by giving the Den Leader Trainer the duties of monitoring the Tigers and help move it along where it slowed down or got stuck. Officially they were a trainer for all the ages, but in reality the bulk of their job (80%) was Tigers. Webelos is a whole different animal and quite frankly I think has to be approached case by case. We tried everything from finding the Webelos leader during the Bear year and training them then, to putting all the Webelos dens together to reduce the work load on the present leaders. But as for how to develop an easy routine for the Webelos to insure a quality program after you leave, its very difficult. The best we could do was leave a few traditions like special Webelos hats and special duties to assist the CM every meeting. I even tried some ideas for helping Webelos Leader at the district level when I was the District Membership Chairman. These ideas included Webelos program training for Bear leaders at district events like Webelos Woods, Camporee and MB College. But it was still a challenge to get adults to come because they were either not sure they would be the Webelos leader, or they were too busy as Bear leaders. I think it would have turned out to be a pretty good program if I could have hung around for a few more years to develop a routine within the committee. I had a few other ideas if you want to try new things, but as in most things new, success requires simplicity in the application and lots of practice to develop habits. Barry

I agree with changing the ending each meeting. In fact I changed the whole meeting agenda every meeting. Its more frun for everyone. But I also understand that is harder for some folks than others. So in what ever you do, keep the boys lauging, cheering and/or stomping their feet. Scoutmaster minutes took me years to perfect with the boys. But what I learned that works for both the cub and scout age is: 1. It really needs to be only a minute long. My better ones were between one to two minutes long. 2. It has to be entertaining for the age. For me that was usually through humor, but I also found Scouts like adventure stories. Remember only one to two minutes long. 3. Have some kind a point, but it can be subtle. 4. It has to be only one to two mintues long. Here are a couple examples; There was a fire in a neighborhood of San Francisco and all the Fire Engine companies were called to put it out. But the fire was so hot that the firemen couldnt get close enough to put any water on it. It was looking like the whole city was at risk of catching fire. San Francisco is very hilly and as everyone was standing up the hill wondering what to do when one fire truck came down the hill very fast passing all the other fire trucks. The fire truck finally stopped in front of the fire with the brave firemen jumping off to grab their hoses and pore water on the fire. The rest of the firemen standing back were so inspired that they all pulled their hoses down the hill to help put the fire out, thus saving the city. The mayor of San Francisco was so impressed with the courage of the firemen on that truck, he gave each one a special award of merit. When the mayor asked the Fire Chief what else he could do for their fire company, the fire chief said the only thing they needed was a new set of brakes for their fire truck. Its easy to brave when we can plan for it. But real courage is being prepared for the unexpected. Another: A new pilot of a float plane in Alaska landed on a small lake to pick up two hunters who shot a moose. As the hunters and pilot were loading the plane with the equipment and moose, the pilot told the hunters that he was worried the gear was too heavy and he couldnt take off. The hunters only replied that they took off out of this same place last year with the same gear and a moose. The pilot not wanting to loose their business took loaded up all the gear and moose. With the plane loaded the pilot taxied to the widest part of the lake to get the most room for taking off and he gave it full throttle to get over the trees at the other end. But as the plane approached the other end of the lake, it didnt have enough altitude and hit a tree eventually crashing in a meadow near the lake. As one hunter was pulling himself out of the wreckage, he looked around and said, Hey George, we are 200 yards farther than last year. Good leadership is always striving to improve and do a better job. >>>>> Boys like to laugh, cheer, stomp their feet and they like adventure. If you can get the boys to do that in whatever you do during the meeting, it will be fun and successful. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Romney's problem is that as a Mormon he doesn't appeal at all to the Christian right, as a governor from Taxachusetts he doesn't appeal to the anti-tax crowd, and he has no national security chops to speak of.

To me it doesn't matter whether it is Boy Scouts, baseball, video games or riding a motorcycle, the parent has to stay consistent to the stated expectations and consequences. In other words, only threaten a consequence you are willing to perform. Now if you think that maybe you were wrong and the consequence is too harsh, then you have to approach the matter with humility and admit you expected more than they were able to perform. But, you can only use that out once. Parenting is the hardest thing responsible adults will ever do and none of us get it right the first or second time. Barry

Does it really matter Calico, you think Obama is a values choice and I think he is the worst wrecking ball to my kids future that this county has ever produced. Our core values are so different that an intellectual discussion would be impossible. Barry

>>Folks are missing Lisa's point. The Republicans deliberately campaign on a "traditional values" platform.

>>Stop compartmentalizing Democrats or Liberals as some vast, stupid, monolithic group. It is why folks keep talking past each other. Its like saying all Catholics think the same way--it just aint so.

>>What I don't get - is why are they jumping to NEWT, and why are they overlooking Santorum & Huntsman? I mean, really, Santorum seems like he's the guy with the "values" chops, and an evangelical Christian, to boot. Huntsman has the dubious quality (apparently - in the eyes of a lot of Christian conservative voters, not my judgment) of being Mormon, but he doesn't seem to have personal scandals of the same type that Newt and other front-runners do.

I don't see the difference between these and the motorboat or Water Sking MBs. I'm big into teaching safety at a youing age and I see a real positive impact for teaching safety here. My kids and I still use the Water Sking safety rules I learned earning the MB at age 13. Barry

We give a BOR as quickly as we can depending on availability of all the players. But the scout has to request it because they are responsibile for their advancement. They also have to schedule their own EBOR with the District and inform the SM the date and time to meet them there. Barry

>>I'm happy with my methods, and those favoring highly competetive events are certainly welcome to their methods too.

>>And again -- this kind of competition is aimed primarily at Tiger Cubs, Wolves and Bears.

>>I have only won a couple big competitions in my life --1st -courting my wife

>>No matter how one sugar-coats the process, competition means someone's going to win and everyone else is going to lose.

I spent a lot time building confidence in scouts. I've always said confidence is the flashlight of going into the dark cave of life. That being said, I don't think confidence replaces competition. Competition is the natural instinctive drive to dominate. It gives us the edge to survive. We may not understand it today in a society where we don't have to compete for our very survival, but it is a carryover from the times man had to fight against nature and enemy to survive. Boys have the same natural desire to practice their instinctive survival desires as young animals like lions, tigers, and bears. For humans, it is even more important for boys to practice competitive games so they learn how to control their resultant emotions. Uncontrolled reactions are the natural instinctive animal responses to actions and events that challenge the brains view of a safe or perfect environment. Training ourselve to react against our instincts and to act appropriately within the acceptance of our culture is developing character. The whole idea of the BSA program is putting boys in a safe environment where they experience the natural urges so that they develop the character to resist those urges. I think a discussion of how to provide a safe environment for boys to practice competition is important. But I think suggesting competition is bad for a boy is distructive for raising a boy into a healthy man. I'll bet every one of us can think of a situation where an adult behaved badly in competition. Win or loose, that is an instance of a person not learning how to deal with their emotions as a youth. The lessons that teach us character usually come at a much higher cost when we are adults. Barry

>>Somewhere, there needs to be an actual physical learning/ training time. Time for them to actually do what they are expected to do in Boy Scouts.

>>That's not quite an example of a Scout being abused at camp, but it's pretty close

>>I wonder of the 50 or so coaches in my baseball league, how many are predators?

>>That being said, if you were just grouping age ranges for any kind of program in general, the UK model is probably about right.

My experience from the membership Chairman point of view is Three out of four Venturing Crews failed inside four years. Actually I think that number is higher, but its hard to track. Just about all Crews created by Troops eventually failed. The ones that succeeded have very heavy adult involvement to keep it going. I found the two main reasons for starting a new Crew and Venture Patrol was needing a program to save the older scouts from leaving or a way for adults bored with the Troop to stay busy. This developed the saying in our District of if you couldnt make it work in the troop, what makes you think you can do it better in Venturing?. And they didn't. The Venturing programs that are successful provide a theme that is difficult for a Troop program to providelike: Aviation, Law Enforcement, medical emergency, sailing, scuba diving and cinematography. In fact, many of these programs have been around for many many years. The Scuba Explorer Post I joined when I was 16 is still around today as a Venturing Crew. My observations are that the vast majority of failed Venture Crews were started by bored adults. I worked really hard with Troops that were considering the Crews or even Venture patrols to reconsider it because they were going into it with the wrong motivation. As soon as the passionate adult who invested the energy to hold the program together left, the program failed within the year. It is much better to improve the troop program to hold the older scouts than split the troop program. Im not sure how Venturing fits in National long range vision anymore. When I was an Explorer, the program was used as vocational training. Now I know Scuba Diving isnt really a practical vocation in the big picture, but law enforcement, aviation and medical emergency certainly fit that vision. Barry

This is a great question Beav. If I remember right, the Canadian Scouts had the same kind of structure as the UK Scouts accept for the 14 year old limit on the Troop Scouts. I had a lot of respect for that structure before they changed in the 90s. It had more outdoor program for the cub ages while adding more mature program for the older scouts. Anyway to your question, I think adding the Beaver Scouts to the BSA would reverse the trend of loosing cub scouts that we are seeing today. The 5 year Cub program is burning out the adults and strangling the Webelos program. The Beaver Scouts suggestion separates boys with a toddler age maturity from boys with a grade school maturity and would simplify both programs immensely allowing the adults to put more focus on the smaller easier to manage groups. As for the rest, I agree it would help in a lot of the issues you brought up. But for me, I do not like the Scouts being limited to age 14 for two reasons: First, the success of Troop age scouts comes from the younger scouts learning from the actions of the older more mature scouts. My experience is there isnt enough difference in the maturity between 11 year olds and 14 year olds to have a real difference on the younger scouts growth. We need the 15 thru 17 year olds for the role modeling to make a real impact. Second, generally mature troops have a program where the oldest scouts run the program with the younger scouts developing the maturity and skills at their own pace to move into the leadership positions when they reach the appropriate age and maturity. Four years isnt near enough time for the program to develop an older generation of leadership. The difference between young troops that dont have the older scouts and the mature troops program with older scouts is that scouts in the younger troops feel that they are obligated to take their turn in leadership position when they reach an expected agen. The troop either gets bland from unenthusiastic leadership or the adults have to get more involved to inject more ideas and variety. The mature troop programs tend to separate scouts who want leadership from scouts who are satisfied with lesser responsibilities. It makes a big difference in the developing the maturity of each individual scout and leads to a more exciting program for all the Scouts. Other than that, I like your proposal and think it would simplify the program a lot. Barry

>>But you don't have to look to far in these forums to see experienced and respected scouters advocating that Scouting would be better off without cub scouts

Hmm, does the lazer level come under lazer gun or power tool? Barry