Eagledad

>>So...since my son spend the majority of all his waking hours ar school...I wonder if he is going to turn into an educator? Or maybe he will turn into a coach?

>>Eagledad - if your going to pick on his lack of facts, but just pure emotion you forgot one..

Always and interesting discussion: >>(a) "gay people do not choose to be gay.">© to my great consternation, science does not help us. There is no definitive scientific answer to the causes of male and female homosexuality.

We solved the problem of knots by assigning one of the Committee Members to track and prepare paperwork for all the scouters. We do that not so much to make sure everyone gets knots, but to make sure the adult records are kept up to date on the council record. You would be surprised how many scouters five or ten years down the road are asked to track the past record for various reasons, Council recognition being one. Knots are pretty clear, but District Awards have their own issues. Its not unusual for the same units to be awarded the same district recognitions every year simply because the other units don't even apply. Folks ask here all the time how they can recognise the hard work of a volunteer in their unit. Unit and district recognition awards are very good and easy ways of doing that. I personally don't wear knots, but I was very humbuled to recieve awards to be recognized by the pack and troop that I recieved on their behalf. I don't wear them on my shirt, but I cherish my Adult Religious Award presented by the Pack and my Scoutmaster Award of Merit presented by the PLC. I have many others like everyone else who puts in their time, but those are special. Barry

Boy, I wish my experiences were as clear cut. But the vast vast majority of calls that Council get and that you folks will likely encounter are situation where there is a fuzzy line between abuse or just two different opinions on the situation. And, the discussion here has been about adult abusers, but in this day and age, I would guess a 3rd of the calls Council receives are reports on scouts. I have been involved and observed a few Youth Protections issues and there is a lot at stake if they are not handled correctly. What if the police were called first and it turned out only a misunderstanding? That adult, scout or parent could risk getting a reputation that will follow them for a long time. It can be very stressful holding the responsibility of ruining a persons life, so everything must be done appropriately to make sure the act is put in the appropriate category of response. And, as I have found, each situation is different. There are times that calling the SE first is the right course of action so as not to over react, but to get another opinion from a source of experience. I have heard a scouter say more than once boy, Im glad I called you first. Also, council in general is not going to always act first even when you report abuse. Right or wrong, my experience is that with lesser abuse situations, they typically will just monitor the unit to see how it gets handled. So dont assume that once you call the SE, the ball is out of your court. Likely if you assume that, nothing will get done and you may still have a danger in your unit. Be proactive and bring ONLY the very few folks who must be involved to develop a course of action. But its also important to understand that 98% of these things can be handled appropriatly in the unit. I know we are reading a lot of I would do this and I will do that if this happens to us on the forum here, but my observation is that unit leaders typically do just the opposite and procrastinate, even to the point of nothing getting done or just letting it go away. Its normal, we arent trained for these kinds of things and so we dont want to get involved. But in most situations, time makes things worse and could give opportunity for the threat to repeat itself. Be proactive to Protect your scouts. Barry

Loving your neighbor does not mean accepting their sins. Living the scout law is a guide to how we treat everyone respectfully, it is not a contract to ignore bad behavior. Barry

SMs have the power to bring these things to the District committe. Actually the Key 3 handled these things. In this situation, the board member was a very respected SM (200 scouts), District Committee member and a very big district fund raiser. But he caused problems in the council by throwing his weight around. I think he saw the writing on the walls with my letter because I was told he didn't resist when the committee asked him to quit the project review board, which was unusual for him. I don't think he liked the reputation he was making in the council. For my part, I didn't know who the board member was when I sent the letter. We were both friends on the district committee but if he had not quit, I would have pressed much harder for some kind of change. I was not the only SM writing letters. Barry

>>How can they choose if they are discriminated against and can't do boy or girl things, but just co-ed things??

>Along with teaching my boys that anyone over the age of 18 is addressed as Mr. or Ms., I also taught them that when they have the need to contradict an adult, they preface the comment with, "With all due respect...."

Well here you go: http://www.9news.com/news/article/226301/188/Boy-wanting-to-join-Girl-Scouts-told-no >>Recently, Archuleta wanted to sign Bobby up for Girl Scouts. His older sister did it, and Bobby really wanted to join. Archuleta told 9NEWS when she brought Bobby to register, a troop leader told her Bobby couldn't join. "I said, 'Well, what's the big deal?' She said 'It doesn't matter how he looks, he has boy parts, he can't be in Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts don't allow that [and] I don't want to be in trouble by parents or my supervisor,'" Archuleta told 9NEWS.

I guess I have worked with enough of these scouts and their families to not see a problem in your situation. If the mother needs your help with her son, she will approach you. If the other parents have some concern, they will approach you. More than once I have approached the parents of scouts who act a little different to walk away from the discussion feeling like the fool because they didnt think it was any of my business. When a critical situation arises and you need the help of the family, that will then be the time to approach them. But as far as I can see, the scenario you described doesnt warrant it yet. I used to have the exact same situation you described with new Tigers and I handled them about the same as you did with your scout. Boys of that age are still toddlers and they just dont have the maturity yet to stay seated for 15 minutes strait. Anyway, a few years later I was talking to the wife of a scoutmaster friend and she told me her husband got involved in scouting because he liked how interacted with those Tiger cubs at the pack meetings. I didnt ask how that could have motivated him to become a scouter because I dont take complements well, but as others have said, I think your role model of how you interact with these scouts is the best way to show scouting at its best. My advice is simply keep up the great work with this scouting stuff and dont seek out more than is really needed in these situations. Barry

Well done Buffalo Skipper. Our troop also worked to teach light weight back packing to all the scouts. You seem to have taken it to an even high level, but I can say that technology has improved a lot even in the last 10 years. Our troop is a backpacking troop and except for the tents, the scouts use the same light weight backpacking equipment on our mounthly campouts as they do on their high adventure trips. One of the struggles for a new scouts is the investment in the equipment. Many families cant come up with the money for good backpacking equipment. So we spent a lot of time researching and watching for sales. Non cotton moisture repelling clothing is pretty common now even at Walmart. But 20 years ago that was expensive and hard to find. So when Campmor and REI had big sales we jumped on them. And we even found discounts stores now and then. Our crews looked pretty rag tagged on treks. But the big challenge was the sleeping bags and backpacks. Its nice to hear that a 20 degree bag can be had for $70 today, even if it isnt the best quality. That same back was $120. But the big thing was backpacks. Since we were a backpacking troop, our new scouts had to learn quickly how to use them. That sounds easy, but in reality learning to properly pack a pack takes practice. Plus the added problem of growth spirts most scout go through between age 12 and 14 also limits the investment of packs. So we develop the routine of suggesting new scouts get either the Jansport or Kelty entry level packs that cost us around $70. We found that packed properly, a scout could carry up 4500 ci of gear at pretty heavy weights. Those packs were external frame packs with lots of pockets, hooks and loops, which made it easier for a entry level person to pack their gear all over it. We had many of those packs make it through Philmont. About the time the scout added 30lbs and 6 inches in height, they had the experience to jump over to internal frame packs which require good packing skills. And, it was typical for a used starter pack to be on display at a Troop meeting with a for sale sign. I watched my first son's Jansport go on three Philmont treks on three different scouts. What Buffalo Skipper knows is that his scouts are at a different level of Backpacking than most of the Troops and crews they meet. Our crews are always amazed with crews taking off the first morning for the Philmont trails in their brand new look a like gear and 50lb plus packs. They just shake their heads and WHY? There is a lot of personal skills that will develop from camping out of a pack. Boys have to learn how to plan a head, organize and work as a team to get their personal pack light as possible. Its hard to be a slob and pack for a 7 day packpacking trip in the wilderness. Just understanding and knowing how to dress requires a scout to make smart decisions. Scouting for me as an adult is all about developing character and I found that living out of a backpack is a very positive and intense character developing approach. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I tried a hammock for sleeping and found that I have the same complaints as packsaddle. Still, I take one everywhere (except Philmont) because I like resting off the ground after a long day of activities, expecially backpacking and canoeing. While I used one during the day after canoeing in Canada, I can't imagine using one at night with the Canadian dive bombing mosquitoes. Barry

>>I love it when our old SM does the "pack shake out" before a long hike with the new boys. I am amazed at what some boys think they "have to have" just in case.

>>10 years from now I hope my son will have aged out an active scout, with whatever rank he gets, and he and his troop-mates will remember Scouts as fondly as I did. We'll see.

Yes, Trev shows one letter that is pro gay role models, but how many does National see with the opposite view? OGE is right, follow the money. National will not change until the monetary risk is minimal. Barry

>>What you want to avoid is getting a pack that is so large you get tempted to fill it!

>>The difference is that then the 5 min SM minute was a 30 minute campfire where the SM told a story to the Scouts. The meeting plan back then was 2 hours

>>I think this discussion has become hysterically funny with SP and Barry defending the Republican party and giving them credit for being the only ones trying to fix this economice mess we are in, as well as blaming the liberals for this crisis.

Last year the Republicans made the biggest gains of a single party since the 1940s. What has changed in the last year for the results to be any different next year, OWS? The Tea Party movement really is a grass roots originated that is focused and simple. Tea Party folks, and folks who unknowing agree with the Tea party platform, are quietly waiting to make their protest heard November 2012. Barry

>>The uniform remains optional, as a scout is and should be a scout whether he is wearing the uniform or not.

>>Personally, I wear a full uniform but none of my Den Leaders so far have followed that example.

>>I had a feeling that would get spun off...I regret ever bringing it up...

The uniform subject comes up often, not so much at the Cub level, but age doesnt really matter for the justification anyway. As I was reading how this leader is struggling to get the whole pack of cubs to wear the uniform, I have to ask why. Why is wearing the uniform so important for an 8 year old boy? Why is it important for a 14 year old boy? What personal quality do they get from wearing the uniform that boys who arent in the BSA don't get? One thing I learned as a coach, guide, leader, role model, mentor and scout leader for these young men is; if we adults dont have a good reason for wearing the uniform, the scouts will struggle to meet our expectations. So, why is wearing the uniform so important? I love this scouting stuff. Barry

I am getting old, the only thing I understood there was the 15 passenger vans. Anything new on throwing horse shoes? Barry