Eagledad

Well said all. We dont call it citizenship, we call it servant living. The servant life is prioritizing all your actions to better the life of others before yourself. We talk a lot here about servant leadership, but servant leadership is just one aspect of servant living. Servant follow ship is another. Servant living is based from the Scout Oath and Law. The Scout Oath directs and prioritizes our actions (to help other people at all times) and the Scout Law guides how we apply our actions in the moment. Each person in the group serves each other by doing their best to fill a need of the group. The group will benefit best from a Grub Master who serves the group with good food prepared well. I know it sounds kind of complicated, but in reality it is the same as how Citizenship is being applied in this discussion. In fact I think Citizenship is a better title here in the scouting program. Barry

>>Its almost as if you are not a natural leader, you get kicked to the curb with nothing in life to look forward to but to be a follower. I know I have missed something and would like to know what I missed

>>I'm with K on this one. If a self-selecting group of boys wants to go on an adventure, they don't have to be reorganized into their own patrol to accomplish that

I think you have got some good advice already. If you do go NSPs for a few months (and we did this also with big groups of Webelos) make sure everyone (especially the new parents) understand that the new scouts will join a more mature patrol in a few months. We encourage the new scouts to watch and shop for the new patrol they want to join. The mixed age (mature Patrols) are also encouraged to watch and shop for new scouts to recruit during those same months. Now I know a lot of folks think new scouts will do better if they stay with the same group of boys they have been with since kindergarten, but we found one or two buddies are all they really need. Its usually the adults that feel the whole group would be better together. But young scouts need older scouts to really get the most out of scouting. If your program doesnt work that way, Patrol Method struggles and requires more outside intervention from the adults to maintain positive growth and more importantly, fun. And honestly, adults arent fun. Barry

Morning fog on the lake Smells of the woods Birds singing at dawn warmth of the fire Barry

>>I have repeatably seen scouts develop more character in one week of High Adventure than many adult have ever developed.

I must admit it saddens me to read so much distress over the Pinewood Derby event. To some degree, I want to say those of you who consistently bad experiences are doing it wrong. But I also wonder if maybe most of the scouts are having fun and its just distress over the few participants that went over the top. Having two sons, I have planned, ran and monitored my share of races and I cant think of one event where 98 percent of the families didnt leave with smiles on their faces. Through the years I was there, our pack numbered from 80 scouts to 120, so our events are big with several hundred family members attending. In fact, to try and keep the event under an hour and a half, we used two tracks to speed things along. Maybe our success is that its a family event for our pack. While we do have winners and losers, the event is talked about for several weeks as a family fun night. Each scout gets a PW Kit in December for Christmas, but we also have siblings races and a race that any car can race in the unlimited class. We even provide several cars for sibling who didnt build a car but want to race. Usually last years races cars. We also set up a hot dog meal-deal with a chilli hotdog, chips, and coke for only a couple bucks. We have candy, popcorn and baked goods for sale at a very reasonable price as well to fill the stomachs. Its set purposely on Friday night and advertised as a Friday Family Fun Night where everyone in the family is expected comes to eat, race, cheer, sing, laugh and even cry. The tracks are set up so that the scouts and other family participants can sit on the floor right next to the track to watch their car race past by within and arm reach. Then we set up several rolls of chairs along the track as well for the family members who dont want to sit on the floor, but still get a good view of the race. I know a lot of packs dont let anyone near the track for fear of a scout touching the car as it goes by, but sitting close to the action is part of the fun and we found only a couple warnings is all the participants need to keep their hands off the track. While the race goes on, the CM is also leading cheers as each set of cars are being set up for the start. The objective is keep the scouts moving and yelling so that by the end of the night, (about 1 hour 15 minutes) the kids are exhausted and the parents laughing from the fun. Its a great evening. A few secrets that make life a little easier for us is we give the cars to the scouts in December and explain they can use only the parts in the kit. They have to follow the rules in the kits. We found the more rules you add, the more complicated the race gets. Its just easier pushing the simple rules. We check in the cars the night before the race so that we have time to help modify cars that didnt quite make it up to the rules. Usually its adding weight to cars. But we have a few dads excited to help a scout with any car that might need some help. If you can, set up the tracks the evening before so that adults dont have to show up a couple hours early and make it a very long evening. But that depends on your event location. We have two are three pit nights for scouts who needs some adult help. We also give names and numbers in the December news letter of dads who are willing to help any scout with his project. That was set up for scouts of single parent moms, but any scout can call. Surprisingly they dont get many calls. Each car gets to race a minimum of 9 or 10 times, so the scouts watch their car race plenty. My observation is the scouts actually get kind of bored after for five races and get more into the cheers, eating and laughing than the racing. So having the CM entertaining the audience helps. Im not sure what we are doing that is different from your pack, but this can be a fun event for each member of the family to look forward to. Get dads to plan and run the race side and moms to plan and run the concession side. Use the Webelos to take car from the pit area to the start line and let start the cars. Have fun folks. Barry

I'm trying to understand your thinking here, do you feel the adults in troops should eat the same food as their scouts eat on campouts? Also, since all the members of the committee select the food as you said, what is the problem? Barry

>>So for B&G, I told her that we could have spaghetti and salad and bread for a meal. She was okay with this , but still wanted to cook a few Boston butts as well.

I had a friend concerned with the way his troop was creating classes for many of their MBs. The troop would spend one hour on a MB before the troop meeting each week and they were getting 100 percent completion of badges in the two one hour meetings. On his own, he did an experiment with a few MBs where he introduced the MB in short class then told the scouts to call him when they were ready to perform and sign off on the requirements. He found that only 30 persent of the scouts ever called him. And only a third of them completed all the work. Barry

I struggle with the word bribery. Is it bribery for the patrol to finish KP before assembling so they dont have to do it later during free time? Our scouts schedule in a lot of activities and if they cant get to all of them, somethings got to give. I designed the program that way on purpose because its much easier to let time nag the scouts into becoming efficient. If the troop is late getting home, they alter the original schedule and skip the junk food stop. No our troop doesnt pay, what scouts do with their money is their responsibility. We did have a couple of mentally handicap scouts that we had to guide with money, but we worked that situation in partners with their parents. $5 or $10 is a lot of junk food. Our scouts just had lunch before we left camp, so they arent buying a meal. Barry

Has anyone seen the Troop 232 Koshare Indian Dancers in La Junta Colorado? Do a google search, these guys are impressive. Its a perfect overnight stop on your way to Pilmont. I haven't been there in about 15 years, but they used to charge each scout $1.00 to sleep and shower in their gym. For another $1.00 you get to watch an hours worth of fancy dancing which ranks up there with the pros in the Oklahoma Red Earth Festival. Several hundred Eagles have come out of that troop as well. Very cool. Barry

>>Eagle 92, That may have been the best post I have ever read on this forum. I am truly proud to call you a Brother.

>>Regarding the cub scout Bobcat rank, I'm not sure why anyone would use a Native American ceremony. The ranks used in Cub Scouts (Bobcat, Tiger, Wolf, and Bear) are based on characters from the Jungle Books by Rudyard Kipling. The symbols and ranks used in Cub Scouts have nothing to do with Native American lore. Further, the symbols and ranks used in Boy Scouting have nothing to do with Native American Lore.

Our troop is very much like Buffalo Skipper. Time depends on the distance, but usually the earliest is 1:00. The patrols can work and leave independently if they want. Its rare, but it happens sometimes. Barry

Why are Sundays different from any other day? I have never understood that. How can your adults break camp with the scouts if they are 100 yards away breaking down their own camp? Our troop averages 40 to 60 scouts on a campout and they break camp in about 45 minutes without adults anywhere in sight. And, we include Sunday Lunch on our campouts. I've said this before, there is no better teacher of discipline than the agenda. If the patrols know the troop assembly is at 8:00am, then they know when they have to have everything done. If they can't get it done in time, then they have to change something. And that something isn't help from the adults. Our scouts are in the habit of stopping at a convenance store on the way home from the campouts for a junk food stop . The parents are told when the troop will be back at the church, so the SPL writes the agenda to meet the parents on time. The scouts only had to miss one junk food stop to make a change in their future camp break down habits. You guys work way to hard at this scouitng stuff. You need to start thinking like the boys. Barry

>>BSA's membership numbers continue to plummet from year to year because BSA is more and more seen as a group of country, overweight bubbas and far right wingnuts. Not all of us are like that. Some of us understand the difference between our own selfish fun and being sensitive and courteous and kind to others around us

>>Is it just me, or does that sound like Tom Blanchard's version of a WoodBadge ticket item?

What is your main goal for each scout? He should have vision or goal for all the scouts. Barry

>>Since that link showed up on a public scouter forum, maybe we all need to apologize or be thrown out or somethin'.

>>I'm not just thinking continental US here.

>>I'd give credit to both religion and military service for the popularity of tattoos, ..

>>but I see it as trying to get Scouting to find its way out of principals that I see as outside the Scout Oath and Law.

Wisdom is only gained when actions are reflected with humility. If the scout in his heart doesn't understand the harm of his initial action, he will likely repeat it. If he truely sees the harm in his action, he will respond appropriatly. It's only our job to guide him toward a humble reflection. His heart must do the rest. That is what is meant by "prepare young people to make ethical and moral choices over their lifetimes by instilling in them the values of the Scout Oath and Law" So the first question is "what does the SPL say?". Barry

Well done drmbear, that is how it supposed to be done. I spent a lot of time teaching Webelos leaders to use activity pins themes for developing fun program activities and pay less attention to advancement. If they are having fun, advancement will come by itself. Its the same thing with PLCs scheduling MB themes in their meetings; use the themes for program, not advancement and the rest will follow. Our older scouts simulated a car wreck once on a campout with fake blood and wounds on the month first-aid was the theme. The scouts talked about that for months. It was a very fun way to learn and practice first-aid. And sadly, too much is made of Webelos learning the Scout Oath and Law. I let my guys read off a card while they recited the oath and law at each meeting. They pretty much knew them when they crossed over. Barry