Eagledad

The cost of a tent is important, don't get me wrong, but remember in the big picture everything is about developing character. So I suggest looking at the cost of the equipment as the price for developing a scouts character while in his responsibility of taking care of equipment. Are the scouts being held accountable? I know in our troop growth, scouts who committed several Saturdays washing cars at the beginning of our program took much better care of the equipment than the ones who walked into a better equipped troop later. Can that be fixed? I personally like the idea of scouts bringing their own equipment, but then you will have to deal with the quality of Walmart tents after a big storm. And, I think back on some of the heated discussions on this forum about unit policies of requiring tent mates because the health risk of scouts sleeping by themselves. I usually stay out of those discussions. Barry

>>If the camp has rules against drugs, weapons and such, I'd publicize those and expect them to be obeyed. But I wouldn't search Scouts or their possessions without something akin to probable cause.

I'm glad to see adults concerned with how they role model in front of the scouts, that certainly is a good discussion topic. But I'm curious, in my many years of scouting both as youth and adult, I have never seen a scout ask to sing for a lost item. Do these scouts look or seem upset by the experience? We attended one summer camp where singing happy birthday wasn't allowed because it was hazing. Are we talking about the same thing? Barry

Hi, my name is Barry and I am an engineer and I am on the 12 step program that is supposed to wean me away from inventing, designing, redesigning and then redesigning again during my sleep. Yes, I have designed and redesigned a few Chuck boxes as part of my addiction. My advice is get the lightest box with enough handles that at least four scouts can carry the beast. I lived in fear of a scout breaking his leg after watching them carry one of my greatest designs down the trail to camp. Oh well, at least it looked good. Barry

One of my adult leader mentors back when I was new to scouting was a type A personality and was most happy when she had her hands into everything. To save burnout, our pack had a policy that Den leaders did nothing else but den lead. And it was a good policy because a lot of parents had an enjoyable experience of organizing and running activities like Blue and Gold and Pinewood. But, my mentor did not follow that policy because she had the most fun being in the middle of everything. She was involved in Girls Scouts and Boy Scouts for 25 years. She never burned out. Burnout is a personal thing. In fact I really dont think most folks see it coming or knew they were burned out until they stopped doing what they were doing. Thats when they look back and realized they had absolutely no desire to get that involved anymore. So its personal and hard to gauge how to plan your volunteering to prevent burnout until you are right in the middle of it. Is there some general advice that would apply to most of us? I dont know. I can say delegating other folks to do some of your duties relieves burnout, but I know that some folks have the most fun when they are really busy. Delegating may actually add to burnout because its taking the fun out of the work. I was taught back at Oklahoma State that the average volunteer gives an aveage of 18 months max. Those who go longer are running on passion or drugs. LOL! A well designed program should only count on its volunteers for two years, but allow for passionate few. Looking back, I think I enjoyed scouting the least when I was doing something I didnt enjoy. Im not talking about getting real dirty cleaning camp for Wood Badge next week, Im talking about being on the Wood Badge staff when you had no desire in the first place. I may have volunteered my time because the UC, DE or SE or somebody somehow quilted me into doing it. Maybe I was busy at the time or just didnt like doing Friends of Scouting or whatever, but you it something that dread doing and cant wait for it to be over and go home. So my one little piece of advice to slow down your burnout is learn to say NO. Dont volunteer for things your gut telling you not to do. Barry

Ive talked before about the summer camp experience can be as stressful, if not mores stressful, for the parents as it is for the scouts because its the first real separation in the scouts life. Because of that, we have a parents meeting about a month before to prepare them what is going to happen at camp. We give instructions for the parents of how to talk with their son so as to push him toward the camp experience and not back to them. Dont say things like we are going to really miss you. Rover is going to miss you and your buddies are going to really miss you. Instead say how we wish we were going to have fun you are going to have or think of the stories you can tell your buddies. We also ask that all letters be keep the same positive tone like: we are expecting a lot of good stories when you get back, so do as much as you can. We dont recommend phone calls because they are usually disruptive to the scouts experience and rarely make the camp experience better. If we feel they need to call, then we will encourage it or call the parents ourselves first. Our troop usually keeps a couple of moms at home briefed on whats going on so that any parent can call them to keep up. If the parent has something more urgent, then by all means call the camp. I would even suggest that today when the scout has a cell phone to make sure the call is serious enough. We usually get one or two every year. But in general, we like to keep phone communication at a minimum. And I can see the problem of a scout having what might first appear to have a bad day on a rainy campout. But it will likely best his favorite day some weeks later when looking back. So yes, I think instant communication could set things off in the wrong direction and make more drama for the adults at camp. Trust me, drama can be very stressful. So me personally, I wouldnt want all the moms at home to learn of the illness spreading through camp unless their child was sick. I would tell the two moms we call everyday to tell anyone concerned that everything fine at the moment and they will be the first to learn if anything changes. Camp goes through a phase of the first two day being physically stressful because the Scouts AND Adults are up early doing a lot of physical activities thru the day and usually whipped by lights out. Food takes an adjustment and by the time Wednesday comes, folks are getting cranky. High adventure Crews go through the same process. I always have an adult on meeting Wednesday to prepare them so that they know that we know that its getting kind of hard. But we must put up a good cheery front for the scouts no matter how we feel so we can get the scouts to Thursday when they are starting to get a hang of things and camp is becoming a lot of fun. When parents' worries and concerns start adding to the mix at camp, it can be very stressful. Now cell phones werent popular enough to be a problem when I was a SM, so I dont know the answer. Facebook, wow. But I do know that I would have a really good parents meeting a month before the camp so as to prepare them for their struggle of jr. not being at home for a week, and the possible fatigue of those at camp. Summer camp is a wonderful time for all and everything should be done to make it the best experience of the scouts summer. I love this scouting stuff. Barry

>>Boards are scheduled at everyone's convenience and the board members generally have watched the Eagle candidates grow up through the program for years. Yes, to a degree, the boards can become somewhat of a victory lap. But in some cases the board members have conducted previous boards with the Scouts. As such, they often follow through with issues and conversations over a matter of years. I think that gives them an insight with the Scout a board of strangers wouldn't have.

>>Sure both took immediate hits when it happened from those who couldn't accept change>BSA has the ability to soften this blow by simply making it the decision of local units..

I agree, but units perform the EBORs in some councils. I have seen EBORs done by the Council, but I don't know how it was set up. BArry

>>So you're just using completely unscientific anecdotal observation on your part to draw conclusions about success methods of a corporation that has almost a billion dollars in assets?

>>Eagledad, that's an EXCELLENT idea. Of course it will require troops to stop thinking of packs as the mikey mouse of scouting

>>You just did the same thing you accused me of before. You stared at the graph and pulled complete fiction out of your mind and decided that was the cause without any data at all.

>>Notice where Dale v. BSA falls on that graph posted by BSA24?

>>Sorry my friend but your analysis of Scouts Canada is mostly rumors and innuendos instead of truth.

>>Numbers trending down gradually toward zero while number of available youth has doubled in the same time. This is not a good trend.

>>By that time, they're usually ready for a troop guide or instructor role which has higher stature and less pressure.

>>Getting a boy to commit to 12 months is a big commitment so I can see why your PLC didn't like the idea of a 12 month commitment.

Very Good, thank you. Barry

>>It would be nice if BSA took the time to perform market research on people who are not currently in the scouts and adapted accordingly. It might stop BSA's plummeting spiral into the membership abyss.

>>So what your saying is your troop elects an SPL for 12 months and they know that the first 6 months is a learning period. After the 12 months they are out because another one is waiting in the wings. So you don't allow the Scouts to reelect their SPL. Why? Seems like something an adult would construct not a 12 year old boy. Wouldn't that be against the idea that the Scouts can elect their own leader and can reelect them as many times as they would like?

>>I'd say that often that's because the WEBELOS Den Leader has a program of age appropriate den hiking and camping and reasonably close association with the program of one or more Boy Scout troops. I would say that a WDL who is an experienced outdoor person or former Boy Scout has a real leg up in carrying out that kind of program.

>>Again the idea is to get them the tools so they can do the program which accomplishes the Aims. That's the purpose of the T2F requirements.

>>However, that's perfectly ok. There is no reason that a person without direct scouting experience can't make a good Webelos Den Leader, If they are willing to pick up new skills, and reach out for assistance.

Just an observation bnelon44, but a quote you wrote in another thread: >>Focusing on any rank, including Eagle is getting your eye off the goal. Your making advancement an end in itself. But that isn't the goal. The goal is character development, citizenship training, and mental and physical fitness.

>>Well my comment on the order of the scout oath was sarcasm that was saying pretty much the same thing. I figured those who push the moral values as the reason to exclude homosexuals would have argued about how the while the order in the Girl Guides meant something, the order of the scout oath did not. So "morally straight" was not because it was the least important.