Eagle732

My dad was an ASM when I was in Scouts as a kid. Without question I was held to a higher standard. I am now an SM and my son is a scout, he too is held to a higher standard. I think we are both better off for it.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

We always present the new Eagle a rank patch at the next regular troop meeting after his EBOR.

I intend to ask why at the earliest opportunity. Maybe some football coach told them Scouting wasn't cool.

Stosh, Did I say "Take it or leave it"??? Please show me where I said that because I don't remember saying that. I said we offered these two scouts a free week of summer camp (I though that was a good thing but maybe not) and they declined. Their choice. I'm not forcing anyone to do anything. I didn't bring up the "Forced Change" issue. Again we offered, that's all. "What was their experience at the first summer camp?" Of the scouts that went to summer camp last year only these two are not attending. Seems like most boys had fun but since I wasn't there I can't say for sure. Everyone sure seems to be looking forward to going again this year. "why would they on limited resources want to invest in it again?" What limited resources are they expending? A week of their time? Again it was free, camp fee, food, transportation, all FREE. When I posted my comments on the other thread they were in reference to the statement that "Nothing that is free has value" I see the truth in that. Of course the boys are right, they made the right decision for themselves. I think it's a lost opportunity buy it's not my decision to make.

"Part of the fault lies with the troop adult leaders who do the minimum required of them and then are so amazed and angry when the boys in their troop follow their own example." I don't know one SM who does the minimum required (whatever that is).

"If choosing a poor SPL means they will have 6 months of bad program, they will start caring about there choices" Maybe, or the program will be so bad that the scouts will quit. Boy run does not mean boy run into the ground. When the boys are serious about having a good program they will make good choices. Case in point, my current SPL is 17+ years old, and does a fairly good job in my opinion. However when our Philmont crew met for the first time and chose officers he was not selected as crew leader even though he assumed he would be. Why? Because he was late for the meeting. The boys saw that they needed someone dependable.

Just wishful thinking.

This would have been both boys second summer camp. Both boys come from low income homes with limited opportunities. We offered, they chose not to go.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

dg98adams said "Nothing given away is ever valued." How true. We had two scouts apply to council for summer camp grants. Both were awarded grants in the form of a credit of 50% off the cost of camp. The troop has a long tradition of providing the other half of camp cost for needy scouts. Both scouts just decided they did not want to go to summer camp. Hmmm, free week of sumer camp, I think I'll pass. No value.

Eagle or no drivers license, one of the oldest bribes in the book. I've seen it on several occasions. Can't really blame the parents, they want their son to stay in scouts. Can't blame the scout, he's just playing by the rules set by his parents. I just maintain the same standards.

The SteriPen kills virtually all bacteria, viruses and protozoa without chemicals. I used one every day for 3 months straight, changed the batteries monthly, and carried Aqua Mira as a back up.

A troop camped next to us had this problem a few years ago when one of the two leaders had an emergency and had to leave on the second day of camp. The camp director asked if it was OK with us if we could help out since we had plenty of adult help so we asked the lone SM to hang out at our camp. His scouts knew were to find him. We all had a great time and made some new friends. This year another troop with 3 scouts and their SM will be sharing camp with us for the week like they did last year. Ask for help and you'll get plenty.

Basement, my good friend (who has busted my chops on many occasions), please don't take this Scout leaving personally. Years from now this scout will look back on his time with you and the troop with great fondness. He will understand that he benefited from your program. And one day he will thank you. I know this because I was just like your scout. At 16 I decided that it was more important to hang out with my new friends at the local volunteer fire department instead of going to troop meetings. It was more important to me to take fire training on weekends instead of going camping. But it all worked out. I ended up going to college, becoming a paramedic, getting a job in a large fire department, having a great career, helped a lot of people, and now I'm enjoying retirement. By the way the last merit badge I earned, Firemanship. See how it all works out. You care, you're a good leader, you give everything and sometimes it feels like you get dumped on. It goes with the job so put on your big boy pants and get back to the kids that need you! As for your other questions: No I don't pay out of pocket for scouts to go camping. We have a fund and the CC and COR decide who gets help. I stay out of that, I don't even want to know who gets assistance. I don't know how to deal with band and sports coaches. All my ASMs and myself are all fire, police or military and most are Eagles so the boys and parents can see what Scouting can do for a boy. Interesting that my COR has 3 boys, all Eagles and all working for the same department I retired from. They were all asked extensively about being Eagles during their interview, as was I, 30 years ago. We're not too far from the Naval Academy where I've heard that 75% of male cadets are Eagles. Wonder what percentage of Cadets played football in high school? Good luck.

"Even rudimentary den chief training states that the primary duty is to help out at den meetings so stating such things a "I don't think they need to attend all the den meetings" show a weak understanding of the position in my estimation." After reviewing the Den Chief's responsibilities I don't see where it says a DC has to attend every meeting. Where else in Scouting do we require this level of attendance?

I've found it very difficult to recruit Den Chiefs from my troop. The time commitment is too great, almost doubling the time spent in scouting activities. Then there's the increased conflicts with troop events and other activities or responsibilities. Keeping things in perspective. The troop's Librarian spends 5 minutes during the meeting handing out merit badge books, the Den Chief, even if he attends only half the den and pack meetings in a month spends at least 4 hours a month working with the den. I'd be happy with a scout who agreed to being a Den Chief for half the den/pack meetings as long as the DL agreed and the scout lived up to his agreement.

Irsap, I think you missed my point, I meant relatively speaking one is not stressful when compared to the other. Is a swim test stressful to an 11 year old? Of course it can be for some. So is his first Board of Review, first Scoutmaster's conference, first overnight campout or first time going to visit a merit badge councilor. Stress is natural when you do something for the first time. I had 13 new scouts do a swim test yesterday at the local pool, all but one passed. No one seemed to be stressing over it.

That's easy. If no one payed the fee then the charging for signatures would stop. Apparently your council thinks they have enough adult volunteers willing to pay that they can get away with it. Maybe they do. Just say no.

Taking a swim test isn't stressful. Being out in the middle of a lake when a sudden wind gust dumps you out of your canoe and you can't swim, now that's stressful.

We have a swim check today at the local pool. Those that pass will be canoeing next weekend, those that don't will not. I'm sure some are stressing over it. I gave the new guys some inside pointers on how to pass, use the breast or side stroke, not the crawl, and do restful back strokes by counting to 3 between strokes. I believe most were not listening, we'll see.

There are some great non-BSA high adventure activities available. Maybe your troop could find something that suits them and skip NOAC.

Sounds like something that should be handles by the PLC. PLC might consider reinforcing the rule that no one goes into another patrol's gear without permission. The Scout that refused to listen to the SPL should be dealt. Maybe by the SPL unless he is a repeat offender of not listening to the SPL, then he gets an audience with the SM.

"So on a training hike for Philmont this weekend we did 12 miles of the Appalachian Trail in Northeast PA, we came across two through hikers, both were identified by their large packs and ear phones" I doubt they were thru-hikers. The thru-hikers with large packs all quit before getting out of Georgia.

So, when your unit goes to summer camp do you allow parents to attend or is it only SM and ASMs? How about committee members, can they attend? Where do you draw the line?

"the CC cannot order the CM around....Basically they are equals in the program" Every organizational chart I've seen shows the CM under the Committee, not equal to the Committee. The committee recruits or selects the CM. So in essence the CM "works" for the committee. All adults serve at the discretion of the CO.

There are some people here who might want consider offering some respect to others. Boys might not always do what we say but they always do what we do. We set the example, sometimes not a positive one. mrface2112, as far as your situation, boys have way too much energy to sit still. Keep awards ceremonies short and have fun activities afterwards for the boys to do. Then tell them they can do the fun stuff as soon as you get through the awards ceremony and the less interruptions we have the sooner we can get done. When the offenders interrupt, stop and wait. If there's no time for the fun activities then let them know why. Peer pressure is wonderful at redirecting the misguided. My troop had a problem with packing to leave from camping on Sundays. Late sleepers, goofing off, scouts not helping to pack all led to late departures. We solved the problem by offering a fast food stop on the way home. If we leave by 11:00 we stop for lunch on the way home, if we leave at 11:01 we don't. The scouts make the decision. We usually leave early now and enjoy a lunch stop on the way home.