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About Hawkrod

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    Junior Member

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    Apple Valley, CA
  1. First off, I commend you for wearing a neckerchief. These days far too many leaders opt out. If you have a son in the pack, it's customary to wear the same slide he does. I would recommend that Den Leaders wear the same slide as the boys in their den. As CM (and CA previously), I wear a 60's era grey metal "turks hear knot" slide that my Scoutmaster gave me when I was elected SPL. They're all over ebay--just search for "vintage boy scout slide". If I didn't have that one, I'd wear one of the ones I've made over the years. I really like the idea of making them and handing them out to the boys as a rewards for a job well done. I'm gonna have to steal that!
  2. Thanks qwazse. I've been avoiding using my inner cop simply from the standpoint that i'm the new cubmaster, and don't want to immediately be known for being a hard-ass. There'll be plenty of time for that, I'm sure. ;-) It's a delicate balance, especially as we're trying to aggressively grow the Pack. We're going to have a meeting with the parents as part of fall "reconvening" process (of course we're remaining active over the summer)....
  3. Hawkrod

    Red Berets

    We wore the red berets in my troop back in 88-92. We voted on it and they were the overwhelming choice. We actually wanted the old style flat cap (garrison cap) but we were young and didn't know the real name for them--we referred to them as "McDonalds hats" b/c that's what they wore at McDonalds at the time. The ASM didn't understand what we wanted and really blew a gasket about us wanting "McDonalds hats". So we went with the berets over the baseball cap. We later were able to communicate (via a rather derogatory military slang name for the hat) which hats we had originally wanted, but were told that they had been retired years ago. I have to say, though, the choice of the beret really set us apart as a troop, and we all wore them correctly. Everyone knew the troop. And they were easily stored under your shoulder loop. And I used mine for several of the additional uses noted by Penn above. But yeah, in retrospect, they seem a bit....frenchy. :-D But I always kinda dug them. These days as a Scouter, though, I wear the Indiana Jones hat. But I really want an official BSA fez!
  4. Hawkrod


    I don't recall "fair" being in the Scout Law. It was announced ahead of time, it's part of the Troop Culture and it sounds like the kids were courteous about it. I see no problem with it. I agree with the person who said "why don't we just hand out Eagle to everyone?" There need to be rewards for the boys who go the extra mile (complete the task, etc), whether it's a patch, a woggle, or a tasty frozen treat. In my CS Pack, we gave all the boys a piece of leather thong as a necklace when they join the Pack and we hand out pony beads for participation at otherwise "optional" Pack Events--things like like parades, hikes, pack overnighters, service projects, etc. Not all boys get them as not all boys participate in everything. By nature it is "exclusionary and unfair". It's a way to reward those who do more--it is NOT a method to punish kids who didn't. Although in the current "equality of outcome" mentality that seems to pervade American culture more and more every year, I'm waiting for the day that I get confronted like the OP did because "Timmy's daddy had to work and he couldn't go on the hike". OP, carry on.
  5. Wow, lots of great ideas in this thread and lots to think about. Our pack is about 15 kids. Pretty small. This wasn't a 3 hour ceremony, it was a relatively quick one (a modified version of the "Tiger, Wolf and Bear Paws" ceremony) which followed a cookout/pot luck. I don't think it's too much to ask for the remaining boys to sit quietly for 3 minutes while a den of 4 boys is getting presented their Wolf badge, is it? One mistake was not having them sit by den. We'll make sure to make that happens next time and separate them out from their parents. That's a good idea, and for some reason we've not been doing it (largely b/c "that's just how they did it" and being the new Cubmaster, I haven't wanted to come in and change everything, you know?). Another good point about greeting each of the boys at the door. Of course, we didn't have a door being as we were outdoors, but a good idea as well. I appreciate the discussion folks. Glad this community is here!
  6. Thanks y'all. Clearly I'm not alone in this. If it were older Scouts (Boy Scouts), it'd be one thing. I'm dealing with Cubs here--and young ones at that, Tigers, Wolves and Bears. Like I said, a certain amount of this can (and is) attributed to "boys will be boys"--the restlessness, general silliness, etc. I was a boy once and totally understand--I can work with that, no biggie. I've "done time" in Public Education as well, and know all too well about tailoring the program to fit the kids. Mostly I'm referring to addressing the talking back, foul language, etc. We actually had one kid hit his mother when she corrected him (which she addressed via the "60's Pack Meeting" method BasementDweller referred to). Stuff completely unbecoming of Scouts, especially Cub Scouts. For now I'm using the "Signs Up" method, which works for about 2 minutes--long enough to announce the names of the kids to come up front to be recognized and then it's chaos again. Repeat with "Signs Up". Sounds like that's going to have to be the approach for now, along with working with the parents. Does anyone have any Pack Program ideas for a "Respect" Theme? thanks!
  7. Greetings fellow Scouters! As this is my first post here, a little about me. I'm an Eagle Scout ('92) who took a hiatus of ~20 years as I went through college, work, starting a family, etc. I have a 6 year old who wanted to join last fall, so I became his adult partner and it was immediately apparent that our small, somewhat foundering Pack needed me, so I joined up as a Committee Member and then shortly thereafter, Assistant Cubmaster. Our Cubmaster announced earlier this year that they were moving on, so as of last night I stepped into the Cubmaster position. Talk about being "all in"! Anyway, we had our Graduation Ceremony last night and it was a wonderful evening with one small (well...really not small) "issue". Our Cubs have a tremendous lack of respect. Not only for the leaders, but also for each other. Unless they were the ones up front getting an award, they were talking, making rude noises, out of their seats shaking their butts, that sort of thing. It doesn't help that some of them are chronic behavior problems and that their parents don't bother to do anything about it. Certainly part of this can be attributed to "boys will be boys", and some of it can be definitely attributed to the fact that they were all amped up last night to receive their rank and move up to the next den. As a father (and one time young boy) I can appreciate that. But at the same time, as a kid, I never would have dreamed of acting like this. I knew that when an adult was speaking that I was to be silent and be respectful. I also knew that I'd "hear about it" when we got home if I wasn't. That doesn't seem to be the case with these kids (or their parents, more's the pity). So...how to teach the boys respect? Any tips? This is "Golden Rule" stuff--treat others as you'd like to be treated and that sort of thing. And how to get the parents to reinforce that at home (which, IMO, is probably the crux of the problem in the first place)? I felt like I spent more time with the Scout Sign in the air than anything else, and that's disappointing.
  8. Yeah, it stinks but like a lot of others have already pointed out, there are significant benefits. A big part of why I am a leader is what it gets my boys. The extras so to speak, going to camps, helping staff events etc... The benefits to the boys extra efforts is in more and greater experiences. I doubt that I would be staffing camp every summer if the boys did not go with me. Being with them is why I do it. Other boys cut short and go home but I also know their fathers spend less time with them and many of them would rather spend more time with me. I do it and it costs my boys at times but they also know there are benefits to them and they pretty much quit whining a long tme ago because they realized that like most things in life you have to earn it. My 13 year old is working on his Eagle, has nearly 35 merit badges and is an achiever. This did not happen because I was sitting on his head making him do it, it happened because he has had so many opportunities that came along related to all that I do. Soetimes it is lousy but then the good times are better than the best times others have. JMO
  9. I don't agree with you at all. In fact, I would prefer to be on the opposite side just based on your offensive position. And I am obviously offended when you say "The purpose and function of a Troop Committee is to keep a BSA Troop run by a bunch of mommies and daddies who don't go camping." as I am on my second summer campout starting today so as a committee member I do camp (as do msot of our committee but not all but the purpose is not as you say and I consider your "interpretation" a boldface lie and a Scout should never do that. The purpose of the committee is as I said it is. We make sure it happens safely or does not happen because it is not possible. It has nothing to do with control or being adult led, it has only one concept, teaching the boys to do it right. I can't imagine why you keep sticking to the idea that we have to do it Baden Powell's way when the BSA never has from the very begining. I think it is you trying to wrest control from the boys and dictating how they need to do it. It is your opinion and it is not factual and I think you are wrong, VERY wrong. Your idea of how we should be doing it does not benefit the youth in any way beyond the fact that they would have a lot of fun while getting into trouble and injuring themselves. You seem to be dictating that any rules that the committee has is unreasonable. I think your nuts. The committee has to tell the boys they have to raise the money if they want to do something, you seem to prefer that the boys do whatever it takes to get the money so they can do whatever they want so you would forgo any rules or laws just because they are boys right? How is that helpful? The boys want to sell food at a local event, a bake sale as it were. The committee is responsible to make the boys aware that the law requires a food handling permit and a license. How is that wrong? How do you expect the boys to be experts in all things from the get go? Somebody has to tell the boys they have to look into the requirements. The boys usually don't do that on their own that is for sure. Heck most adults don't comprehend what is required for a lot of the stuff we do including teh best Scoutmasters so as a committee we make sure the boys cover the bases.
  10. Why attack people for doing what they are supposed to. I have lost any respect I had for you. It isn't right to accuse people of doing wrong like you have when they are not. I think you are missing a huge part of what this program is about and why we do it. This is not supposed to Baden Powells Scouting, this is the Boy Scouts of America and from the very begining we have steadfactly ignored parts of Baden powells program. Does that mean you are condeming all BSA from the beginingg because it isn't pure and has evolved with society? If it is not the way you say it must be then it is wrong? Maybe you just don't understand how it is "supposed" to work and so you lashed out and attacked the committees. There are lots of trolls around and that was a very trollish comment.
  11. Yes Kudu, you are right about how it was but your way off base on the purpose of a Troop copmmittee and I am calling you out on it. I take offense that you would make such an offensive statement when you do not know me and my committee but you make an accusation like that. Yes, Baden powell did it differently but he also did it without the benefits of telephones, electronics, quick worldwide travel and all of the fundamental issues that come with "progress". He did not deal with widespread child abuse and sexual explotation, rampant drive by shootings and criminals who could dissappear easily so they had no fear of committing a crime. In those days if you were caught you were lucky to get away whole if you hurt somebodies child. Now you get treatment and get to try and do it again. In those days it was no trouble to find a meeting place or get to places you may want to experience. Today that involves money, logistics and possibly even passports (yes, I have taken Scouts out of the country). It is really stupid to suggest that the way it was done 100 years ago is the way it should be done now and it is even more idiotic to make accusations about people you do not even know.
  12. I think too many people read stuff into what they see. The site is a retail site. It is not well organized and does not dictate policy. In fact, the official policy on headgear is that whichever headgear a unit chooses is headgear for that unit. I have said it several times before but I will say it again here, just because it is an official BSA item does not mean you are allowed to wear it in your unit. Headgear is choosen by the unit and "once a uniform, always a uniform" does not apply. From the uniform inspection sheet: All troop members must wear the headgear chosen by vote of the troop/team. They may choose the campaign hat or they may choose the cap, expedition hat or all but whatever the choice, it is only for that specific unit and all members must follow the policy.
  13. The program is at Helendade. They are trying to do the same thing at Emerson but they are doing with the rest of the Troops in attendance and that just does not work as well in my opinion. It is too distracting and the boys do not remain in the patrol for the entire week (unless they changed it since I last saw it there) as they regroup with their Troops in the evening and break out again in the morning. The idea of isolating them and keeping them in a patrol for the week is part of what makes it work. Also the lack of the distraction of the other things going on around them helps as well. Helendade is a smaller camp with a smaller potential group attending and so holding Target on Transition and the Tribe of Wisumahi brings camp to capacity and because the two programs are very similar in structure but very dis-similar in program lets them work side by side without any issues that I have seen at other camps. I am a huge proponent of these types of programs as I have experienced many different programs and these are ones that seem to "stick" with the boys. I have come across men who went through the programs and who have volunteered to come back and work them! These are the kinds of programs that produce "AHA!" moments! I do realize I am biased but I am biased but that is based on the reasons I have given. The Tribe of Wiumahi program for 2nd year Webelos has been fine tuned over the last couple of years and is very much aimed at teaching leadership skills and the patrol methods through cooperation and teamwork and each year it gets just a little bit better. The new camp director is a great lady who is an amazing outdoorsman with a family of Scouts and she firmly believes in these programs and has gone above and beyond to make them happen and make the experience as good as it can be.
  14. Sorry SeattlePioneer, I could have expounded! The transition program is a weeklong camp where the boys are immersed in the patrol method and taught by a Venture crew. The entire focus is about working as a patrol and the details of it. For example (and I still laugh) during meal planning a couple of years ago, the boys decided on hamburgers so they create a list for the quartermaster: 1 pound hamburger, 1 package hamburger buns, 1 onion, 1 tomato, 1 bottle ketchup, 1 bottle mustanrd, 1 head of letuce, cheese. So they got what they asked for including that single slice of American cheese! LOL You know those particular boys will never forget to say "6 slices of cheese" ever again! They do work on a couple of basic MB's as a group but the entire focus is the boys learning to work together and share the load. They come in and are asigned to a patrol and then live with those boys for a week with very, VERY little adult interaction. They are taught to look to the older boys for guidance and the Crew members know how to do it. The boys come out with a very clear understanding of how to get things done in a group and why everyone has to share the jobs, both good and bad, so that they all succeed. I was just talking to the program director this afternoon and although this is not a new program, she is dealing with SM's who are not happy that the boys have no choice in MB's as all the boys do the same thing as a group. Too many don't get it but thankfully their boys will! It isn't about advancement or MB's, it is about learning to be a Scout at the most basic level.
  15. Moose, You are probably rightabout the scheduling but our Committee usually handles the calendar for the SM, it isn't that he needs reminding or that he can't do it, it has always been the committee who has done it but it does not need to be that way. It also helps having ten pairs of eyes on the calendar when things get busy becaue our SM already has a ton of stuff on his plate! LOL I know he appreciates the help so I wouldn't suggest changing it but others may have another way that works better for them.
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