Eagle732

I can imagine that this is going to be very ENTERTAINING! Keep 'em coming BluejacketScouter! You'd make a great DE.

The CM, her assistants, pack committee and DLs set the pack's program. No where in that equation does the DC fit in. Maybe the leadership spent a lot of time and effort setting up an event that you just stepped on with your invitation. If I were you I'd apologize to the CM and stay out of her business. Consider yourself lucky that the CM attends RT, keep meddling and I'm sure that will end. DCs oversee the commissioner service, not pack activities. I'm assuming all your units have fully trained and active UCs. If not maybe your focus should be there. Probably not what you wanted to hear. Just an opinion from a retired CM. Good Luck(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

NJ, I think you overestimate the power of the 2 -4% of the US population and its effect on BSA.

I don't think the example I want to set for my scouts is of one who chooses what rules to follow and which ones to ignore. I would rather them learn to follow the rules and work in a positive way to change the ones they think are wrong. Example: We have a facility about a mile from our meeting place that has lake for swimming, cabins for camping and other outdoor facilities. This place was even featured on the inside back cover of the May/June Scouting magazine with a picture of their kayak slide. http://digital.scouting.org/scoutingmagazine/mayjun2010/resources/56.htm My council currently will not approve a tour plan for any unit to visit there siting unspecified "Safety" reasons. I've been there several times, heck I drive past the place almost every day, but we (my troop) don't go there. That's the rule. I'm challenging it with council but until the rule changes we don't go. How can we teach scouts citizenship on one hand and then show them they don't need to follow the rules. I don't agree with what Pack 79 is doing for the reasons stated but I'm not telling them what to do, I'm just that they set a bad example for their scouts. If that makes me a "patch nazi" then so be it.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

"but what if this happens 100 times? 1,000 times? At what point would National say this is not sustainable, and we have to let the units make this decision for themselves? " BSA would do the same thing they did about those couple of Eagle Scouts that sent their medals back, nothing. BSA gets to set the rules, if someone doesn't agree with them then they can leave. There are other scouting like organizations such as Scouting for All or SpiralScouts that accept those that BSA won't. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

I guess we get to pick and choose the rules we follow. Pack 79 decides they don't like BSA's policy on adult eligibility so they just blatantly disregard the policy. They even go as far as to publish it on their website and let the local newspaper in on it. Pack 121 from Columbia, MO decides they don't like the boys only policy in Cubs so they use (or abuse) the Learning for Life program to do an end run around the rules. http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stories/2012/01/16/hispanic-cub-scout-pack-comes-columbia/ I enjoy hunting, many of the boys in my troop do too. Maybe I should disregard BSA's policy on that. Yea, we'll just call it a "non-official BSA trip". Or maybe I set the example by following the rules. "Boys may not always do what you say but they always do what you do" We set the example. If you don't like the rules either work to change them or leave.

...the longest continuously operating scout unit in Marblehead, Cub Scout Pack 79 traces its origins back to 1937, when it was first sponsored by the Glover School PTA before transitioning to its current sponsor, the Clifton Lutheran Church." Read more: LETTER: Local Scouts reject policy - Marblehead, MA - Marblehead Reporter http://www.wickedlocal.com/marblehead/newsnow/x1789229318/LETTER-Local-Scouts-reject-policy#ixzz24Yjn3BZx They have a nice website. Interesting that a Pack website has the Boy Scout Law prominently displayed.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

By "Dump" I meant to remove them from inventory. Wether they toss them in the dumpster, recycle them or give them away the end result is the same, no profit.

I think one of the reasons why they keep selling them is because if they dump them they take a loss. How many boys buy a book and in 3 months they quit so they never get to the point where the book falls apart. Or, like some of my parents have done, they just go buy a new one?

I started a thread on this a few weeks ago. More info on here: http://www.scouter.com/Forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=363157#id_363157

"Where do we find people with these skill and the ability to teach them." OGE, I offered to teach backpacking (and I believe I am qualified to do so) at a district advanced skills training course. No one from over 30 troops was interested in any of the courses offered (including backpacking) I don't think sending unit leaders off to National Camp School is the answer. I think if we want leaders trained in outdoors skills then that needs to be done at the district or council level at a price a little below the $500 Camp School price.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

It doesn't appear as though National Camp School teaches the outdoors skills that leaders need. Maybe the old Woodbadge did but of course that's not an option. So apparently there is no other course that teaches these skills currently offered. The reason might be that there is generally among the adults no interest in learning these skills. Or maybe they already know everything they think they need to know. After all how much do you need to know to take a bunch of kids out to a campground for the weekend? Some of the subjects I'd like to see taught: Advanced backpacking skills including lightweight methods. Orienteering and advanced map and compass use. Campfire cooking, utensiless cooking. Make your own gear (remember the old Boys Life articles on making your own gear like backpacks?) Canoeing (I'll bet there's a lot of leaders who don't know to do a J stroke). Any other ideas?

If adults could earn advancements again would we then have helicopter GRANDPARENTS?

Apparently the horse entered the 300 foot forbidden zone.

I took WB for the 21st Century, it was all leadership skills. What outdoor skills did the old WB teach? Did they teach ax and knife skills? Knots and Lashing? Map and Compass? Backpacking? First aid? Campfire cooking? Just wondering, I have no idea but somebody here took the old course that knows.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

COPE, Climbing and how to run a camp. All nice skills to have but that does that teach the skills that make a better Scoutmaster? What were the outdoors/scout skills that the old Woodbadge taught? Does NCS teach these skills? Our district had a course several years ago call "Advance Camp", it was mainly a backpacking course. The training team asked at RT if anyone would be interested and we got no takers.

Does anyone remember when BSA started requiring a physical every year for scouts? If I recall at one time it was every 3 years.

Bart, how much does it cost?

Going on 6 years as SM. Our troop elects a SM every year in November, they are free to replace me any time. Why would you set an arbitrary term limit? If your troop is lucky to find someone who is knowledgable in the outdoors and scout skills you would be fortunate to hold on to him as long as possible.

Basement says "Far as my stance on Scouting and utilization or over utilization of parks and trails.....I stand by my beliefs. Read any of the AT trail books written for entertainment, Skywalkers, 300 zeros.....many of them have negative reference to Boy scouting. Most are because of the ignorance of the adult leaders. Just sayin.....I know Eagle 732 doesn't agree." SURPRISE! Eagle732 does agree. We could start a new thread on this topic. I could tell some stories about the stuff I saw last year while hiking the AT for almost 6 months. If you want to know what people think about Scouts on the AT go to whiteblaze.net , the largest trail hiking forum out there, and search "Boy Scout". And you all thought the negative opinions about Scouting was mostly about their membership policies I can promise you it more about how we act in public, and it's not good. I'm reading Skywalker's book now, very entertaining.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

Yea, I dropped off the district training team, which I really enjoyed, when I became SM to focus on my troop. Basement, 10 calls a night, 9 messages left, 2 MBs call back, repeat ;( Our District list has about 2,000 names on it and was last updated in 2010. They tried to get everyone to submit a district MBC application in addition to the council application. It didn't work.

Our Council has the District set up MBC lists, they are woefully out of date. It's not unusual for a scout to make 3 or 4 attempts before he can get one to take an appointment. Basement, these are people who I know through scouting, members of our CO, or MBCs that my scouts have had success with and I've called and asked if they wouldn't mind if I add them. I've never met a MBC at RT and I don't attend them any longer anyway.

Let the scout make the decision and let him know that he might need to justify his decision to his EBOR. My guess is that he will make a good decision. I mean we're talking about building materials here, it's not a life or death decision. If he really needs guidance then have him choose a non-profit that can use whatever he has left over. What kind of material are we talking about?

OK after two pages here's what I'm getting from the discussion. Scouts should make the call. We should encourage (not require) scouts to take control over their advancement. Parents, especially new parents or special needs parents can call first to give the MBC a heads up. Here's what I've been doing as a SM. Encourage boys to call, I advise parents that they should not call the MBC to make the appointment. I developed a list of troop MBCs that cover most of the major MBs. This list has MBCs that I know are willing to work with our scouts. Most are not members of our troop but all have agreed to work with our scouts. I know they are active MBCs and are from our area. Parents know that these MBCs are known by me and have worked with our scouts in the past. They can ask me or other parents about their experiences if they have concerns. Hopefully this will alleviate any concerns they have.

Let the Scout decide. He's almost an Eagle he should be able to make a decision like this with no problem. Then support his decision completely.