Eagle732

Scoutfish, I'm glad you're doing well and I hope and pray you continue doing so. You are a voice of reason and civility.

Basement, so tell me what I was implying. And now I'm deceptive??? May you just don't get my point so I'll try to explain it one last time. In reference to these comments: "The only "Real" Boy Scouts are those whose great Scouting passion is to camp out of a backpack or canoe. Boy Scouts who love to cover eight miles a day with a pack on their backs or a paddle in their hands, live the Scout Law differently than those who don't." I do not believe it is appropriate to label boys as "Real Scouts" based on what activities they participate in. I believe that to tell a boy he is not a "Real Scout" because for whatever reason he can not or will not participate in canoeing or backpacking outings every month is counterproductive. Instead of labeling boys I try to encourage them to participate in a variety of activities of the troop's choosing. If the troop chooses to do activities other than the "Real Scout" type activities it doesn't make them, in my opinion, any less of a scout. Very simple. Hope you get it. Maybe you don't agree with me but that's OK.

Why is it a shame?

Oh, I see. You're the one making judgmental statements, calling some scouts "Real" and others less than "Real" scouts but I'm the one "searching for some cruel moral absolutism". Basement, thank you again for jumping to the absolute worst possible conclusion about me and my troop's program. You don't have a clue as to what we do for our boys. My point in using these two outstanding "Real" scouts as examples was not to give excuses as to why they can't go camping, it was to show that some boys, for a variety of reasons, may not be able to participate in the level expected by some to become a "Real" scout. Both boys participate as much as they can or chose to and the troop picks up all costs of camping (including summer camp), provides gear such as sleeping bags and packs and makes sure one has a ride to meetings every week. No sense of community? Again, you're great at jumping to conclusions without the any facts. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

Twocub, Yes you can use carb cleaner and yes they do build up gunk over the years. I've never used anything but Coleman mantels so maybe that might make a difference. Odd that the problem started after replacing the mantles. I collect Coleman lanters and have about 30 dating back to 1920, they all work. I've had to fix many of them. I'd start with the easies/cheapest thing first. Dump the fuel, air out the tank and replace the mantles using Coleman fuel and mantles. That might fix it. There's not much else that can cause this problem except a clogged air intake or a generator.

Kudu, It's a fairly simple question. You have made the statement here repeatedly that boys that don't participate in certain activities are not "Real Scouts". You feel the need to tell anyone reading your posts, (including scouts, I'm sure) this. Apparently you have some scouts in your troop that don't meet your definition of a "Real Scout". Do you tell them they are not "Real Scouts"?

The brand of mantle shouldn't make a difference. Are you using fresh Coleman fuel? The mantles should burn with a bright white light. A yellow, weaker light might indicate bad, wrong type, or old fuel. Are you getting a sputtering or popping sound sound as it burns? That would indicate moisture in the fuel. Empty the tank and leave the cap off to allow the tank to dry completely, this might take a few days. Check for rust inside the tank. Use fresh Coleman or and other brand of camp fuel. Another possibility is that the air intake tube is clogged with spider webs. This is the large tube that runs from the base of the globe to the top of the lantern, the gas generator tube insets into the air tube. You will need to disassemble the upper lantern to clean the air tube. This is a good site for more information which includes drawings and disassembly instructions http://light.papo-art.com/ (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

I'll ask again; Do you have boys in your unit that can't or won't backpack? Do you tell them they are not "Real Scouts"?

Class B (classb.com) and Patchtown (patchtown.com) are two sources. Our troop has bought from both with good results. We now discourage the use of custom patches. If the patrol wants them they order and pay for them.

Agree with everything said here but would like to add: Read the merit badge book. Meet the MBC prepared with the information needed (and with a buddy or parent). Don't expect the MBC to teach you the requirements. He will however be very willing to help but it's always nice when I see there's been a real effort on the Scout's part. For more information on merit badges go to http://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Merit_Badges

fred, when our boys send in the fundraising app they keep a copy of the signed form for their book and send in to council the original. We never (even when sending in troop fundraising apps) get anything back verifying that it was received or approved. But the eagle candidates to have a copy of the signed form.

Scoutfish said it better than I could have ever done. It's not what they do but how they do it. My two scouts that don't backpack or canoe. One is legally blind and deaf, the other can not leave his parents alone overnight because at 14 he is their caretaker, they both have severe medical condition (MS and cancer). Both boys are real scouts.

"The only "Real" Boy Scouts are those whose great Scouting passion is to camp out of a backpack or canoe." Do you have boys in your unit that can't or won't backpack? Do you tell them they are not "Real Scouts"? I'm not arguing your point that scouts should be outdoors doing traditional scouting activities. I agree with that. I don't agree with labeling scouts as "Real" only if they do certain activities. I have a link to your website on my troop's website with a note saying that it's my favorite site for scout skills. You do a disservice to you message by making comments like the one I quoted above.

The comment I made was in reference to your statement about "Real Scouts" (individuals), not real patrols. When you make the statement that only scouts who participate at a certain level are "Real Scouts" the you infer that the rest are not "Real" scouts. I've got two scouts in my troop right now that have never been backpacking or canoeing. They are real scouts, in fact they are more scout like than any other scout I've ever met. Sad thing is no one here will say a thing to support the boys who are not, in your opinion "Real Scouts".

"He got his project preapproval stuff done and moved to completing the fundraising app." Our council has been requiring the fundraising apps to be completed BEFORE the initial project signature. The troop's policy is we don't sign the fundraising app until the book is completed through to page 17 (fundraising app) and reviewed by us. Anyone else dealing with this? I don't recall ever getting anything back from council on a fundraising app. We just send them in and do the fundraiser and never worried about the waiting period. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

I don't understand this need you have to label certain scouts as "Real Scouts".

The AT is a well established and maintained trail. Except for the occasional blow down you won't have to worry about hooking tree limbs as long as you stay on the trail. You'll see very few people using external frames on the AT, mostly just scouts. Everyone else will be using internal, there's a reason for that. If you can find an outfitter or outdoors store near you like REI or EMS have them measure you for a pack. Your torso length determines the pack size. If you're doing an occasional weekend hike you can get by with just about any pack so maybe a you can find a used one cheap. If you get into longer trips you can invest in a top quality pack. I personally use an internal frame pack. My last external frame was a BSA Skyline pack that went to Philmont with me almost 40 years ago. If you want to do some research go to one of the long distance hiking forums like Whiteblaze.net or Backpackinglight.com Backpackinglight.com has a forum just for Philmont which has some good information on backpacking in general. Have fun hiking!

Always happy to share my experiences and knowledge with others. There's no luck involved, unless you consider surviving 30 years as a firefighter to be able to retire as being lucky. On second thought I guess I am lucky.

Lighten your pack then you can ditch the boots and go with trail runners.

DLChris: "Your pack load is pretty heavy and you might need something a lot higher on the ankle." Yea, but it's not too hard to get down to under 15 pounds base weight (without food and water). Makes hiking a lot more enjoyable and easier on the joints. Basement: "So chris...... How many miles did you backpack last year again?????" Really??? Can I answer that?

Now there's an idea! We have a spare 6X10 trailer and lots of extra camping equipment. Maybe we can outfit it to lend out to packs so we can get the Cubs off on the right foot camping. You know, lots of equipment like tents, stoves, patrol boxes, dutch ovens, lanterns etc. That way they can get use to plop camping so they'll fit right in with most of the troops in our area.

Well I like you Basement even though you don't like me because of all my Maine tagged trailers. You obviously are suffering from a case of Trailer Envy

My troop has a "No Electronics" policy that the PLC decided on. I only enforce it when the electronics become a distraction such as texting during a Scouts Own Service (remember that incident Kudu?) IPods while hiking is not a problem form me, IPods while the Patrol Leader is planning the next outing with his patrol is.

Everybody makes mistakes but this is being represented as an ongoing problem. I don't think anyone here is advocating giving a boy the boot for getting into a scuffle now and then. Boys will be boys. I've found that NOT removing scouts who create long term, ongoing problems causes more membership loss. Parents with well behaved boys who were raised to respect others have little patience for those that do not. And it's those parents that make the decision on if and where their sons attend scouting. I personally try to work with every boy who joins my unit but I'm very aware that some are beyond my capabilities.

There's another thread that describes scouts damaging patrol equipment. I consider that a "minor" infraction. I'm comfortable letting our SPL handle something like that. What you're describing is what I would consider a "major" infraction, repeated physical altercations. Our troop policy is that repeated "major" infractions go to the committee for review and discipline if needed. I (the SM) would sit down with the scout, SPL and PL and make it very clear that the next time he raises a hand towards another person he will be removed from the unit. Simple, straight forward, end of story. If it happened again he would be visiting the troop committee for his walking papers. I've been a unit leader for 10 years both as a CM and a SM. I have had situations like this before. I have waisted time with special meetings, letters, and endless discussions. What I have found is that they are generally a waist of time. At the troop level a simple directive from the SM is all that is needed. The SPL and PL are brought in to make sure everyone is on the same page and everyone knows this is the scout's last warning. I have removed 1 scout for this in 10 years. He told me that he didn't want to be in Scouting but his mother was making him stay. Fighting was a way for him to get out of Scouting. His mom put him in another troop with the same results. Now there's going to be some here that will say my approach is all wrong. This is the way I run my unit and I have full support from the CO. Your unit leader needs to figure out how they want to handle these problems, get everyone on board (COR, CC) and take care of these situations. If you don't and it gets too bad the other scouts will leave your unit.