Eagle732

Oh there's lots of room for interpretation. Take 2nd Requirement Class 8c for instance; "Demonstrate water rescue methods by reaching with your arm or leg, by reaching with a suitable object, and by throwing lines and objects. Does that need to be done in the water? Or how about 2nd Class Requirement 10 "Earn an amount of money agreed upon by you and your parent, then save at least 50 percent of that money" How long does the scout have to save the money for? How about 1st Class 9a "Tell what precautions must be taken for a safe trip afloat." Can I ask the scout to describe each point I ask him about or does he need to be able to recite all 9 points from memory and describe them? Why don't we let the SMs run there program the way they see fit as long as it's reasonable. After all that's what is happening anyway.

I have not been through the Eagle appeal process myself but know a SM that did. It was widely discussed here a few years ago when mom posted on it. If it gets to the National level here's what I know from discussions with my SM friend: You might be asked to write a letter outlining your position. You won't be interviewed. The scout and parent might be asked to write a letter outlining their position. The scout won't be interviewed. The National review board just reviews the facts submitted to it. It can take 2 years for the process to play out (despite what many said). Nation's decision is final. When National finds in favor of the scout it can be hard for the adult leaders involved to maintain a positive attitude towards BSA. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

"In God We Trust"

BadenP, I agree! When I see a CSE making over $250,000 a year with a council camp that's falling apart and they won't even buy materials for it's volunteers to maintain it I have to wonder. Seems their highest priority is to fund their own inflated salaries.

Yea, I'm well aware of the fundraising rules and there is no problem. Are you assuming that no UMEA would be filed? Council won't turn you down for doing your own fundraiser unless it violates the rules. If howarthe's council is telling her unit if they don't do one fundraiser they can't participate in another, well that just stinks. Either work around, order cards and send them back or just do your own fundraiser works for me.

Well I guess that's one way to deal with an unreasonable rule. I would have been inclined to tell council I'll go to the discount store and buy my own boxes of candy bars and keep all the profit fro the boys.

If you're going to buy tents buy a good quality, heavy duty tent from a company that you can buy parts from. Eureka Timberline 2 man tents ($160) would be a good choice. We use the 4s ($200! wow they've gone up since the last time I bought one) and put two or three boys in them. Some swear by the Alps brand tents but I've never used them. Get a membership with REI and get 10% back in a dividend each year. They stand behind everything they sell with a very solid 100% replace or refund guarantee. They sell top quality stuff although I've never used their tents. Free shipping too.

Some requirements are fairly easy to set a standard for that everyone can agree on, some are a little more open for interpretation. I believe we should give the SM the right and the responsibility to interpret the requirements, within reason, as he sees fit.

There are some good reasons to have the younger boys sleeping at least two in a tent. They can keep each other company and it helps the new guys from being scared, especially during storms. They can keep an eye on each other, if one gets sick or have a medical emergency (think asthma attack) the other can notify an adult. Helps to keep them out of trouble. If you have one who likes to do things they shouldn't be doing, you put him with a patrol leader who can keep an eye on him. (PL caught one boy who brought his own backpacking stove and was going to cook a midnight snack in the tent!) One two person tent is usually cheaper than two one person tents. Less tents to maintain, clean and dry after the trip. In the end the boys get some input and I would try to accommodate their wishes. However I would try to stay out of the tent business all together if at all possible. Let the boys buy their own 2 person tents and take turns bringing them. Then they get to take them home, clean and fix them. Saves a lot of work and expense for the troop. If you've ever had a tent brought back after going home for drying that sat for 3 months wet you'll know what I mean.

Who required you to sell them? The pack leadership, District, Council?

And thus the reason why every unit's program is different. It would be a shame if we all did things the same way.

We are not allowed to bring wood in to our council camp. State parks do not allow you to bring wood (except kiln dried) in to parks. But these are just rules, and we really don't need to follow them (see other thread on rules).

Ha, Dems calling for a "Truth Commission". Pot calling Kettle black. The truth is so rare in DC it's been added to the Endangered Species list.

"Since you're so buddy buddy with the District Trainer why don't you go ahead and ask him about BSA's coverage of jet skis and ATVs. Or if they are even ever allowed for scout sponsored events." rismith, if I were to ask this question what would the correct answer be? What is BSA's coverage on jet skis and ATVs?

It kinda like selling popcorn without the popcorn. Camp Cards are a discount card you buy for $2.50 from council, you sell them for $5 and keep the difference. More info here. http://www.baltimorebsa.org/support-scouting/2012-camp-cards/44450

"Eagle732 -- thanks -- this really hits home: GET Eagle. BE an Eagle. EARN Eagle. Thank you for helping me have a moment of clarity :-). " Well I was gonna copy and paste half the advancement guide but somebody beat me to it (Like we've never read it)

fred, My troop maintains certain standards. District, Council and National are free to award Eagle to anyone they want. They don't need our approval.

I agree with a lot of what the Tea Party believes in. I guess if that makes me a racists in your mind that's your problem. Oh, and I voted for Herman Cain in the primary election.

rismith says "Eagle boards of honor are done at the district level or higher - it is NOT appropriate for a troop to conduct them on their own" Our EBORs are administered by our Troop Committee in accordance with the 2012 BSA Guide to Advancement section 8.0.3.0 There's also plenty of room for a troop to determine if a candidate is "active" and has appropriate "Scout Spirit" to become an Eagle.

Probably out for revision again!

I always ask if there's anything going on in the troop that bothers them or they don't like. Every once in a while something interesting comes out. For the Tendefoot Scouts I always go over what is expected of them for their BOR. Some seem to worry about that. I'm sure you'll do great. Good Luck! (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

Every SM gets a chance to go through this. I've been down this road and that's why I so bluntly say that in the end he will get Eagle. Not EARN, or not BE an Eagle but get Eagle. The problem always seems to be a boy not active for the last few years comes back to get Eagle for a resume stuffer. Under the old advancement rules it was hard to stop. Now the SM has a little more leverage. You guys are doing a great job handling this. This is hard on everyone involved.

Interesting story about the submarine USS Barb and how Scouting played a part in a mission during WWII. Knowing how to handle yourself during medical emergencies and in the woods can come in handy sometimes. http://www.homeofheroes.com/profiles/profiles_fluckey.html

When I was looking for canoe paddles I called Carlisle, maker of paddles, owned by Johnson Outdoors. They set me up with a factory rep who enrolled me in a program for groups and businesses that buy gear. I bought a dozen paddles for almost 50% off retail and picked them up at a local Carlisle retailer. Johnson Outdoors owns Eureka Tents, maybe a call could get you a decent discount. Ask to talk to a factory rep.

Kinda depends on the rule and who made it. Some rules are hard for Scouts to comprehend; Why can't we ride in the back of the pick-up? Why can't we sleep under a tarp at Philmont? Some rules are hard even for adults to comprehend; What's wrong with not reporting all my income? What's the big deal about going 10 over the limit, everybody else is doing it? Hopefully the one making the rules make them for good reason. We get into trouble when we make rules that have no real purpose or they are not perceived as being useful or needed. In my opinion there's lots of stupid rules, but I realize I don't know all the reasoning behind every rule. Sometimes you follow the rules because you trust the organization that makes them and that they have good reason, even if you don't know why (take airport security rules as an example). Sometimes you follow the rules just because the penalty for failing to do so is too great (decking the mouthy CC isn't worth going to jail over). And sometimes you follow the rules to set the example for others. (Since I've been teaching my son to drive I make sure I do the speed limit when he's in the car and not even 1 mph over) One final thought, ever read Lord of the Flies?