Eagle732

Beav, You call it a contract, I call it an expectation. And I don't think our expectations are unreasonable at all. In reality if a scout isn't attending 50% of the meetings and 4 camping trips a year he's not advancing anyway since he's obviously not interested in Scouting.

Instead of an Eagle Scout Leadership Service Project they would do a n Eagle Scout Outdoor Leadership Trek. I like it!

Yup, increase is suppose to go to insurance. Maybe too many paintball injuries ; )

No legal case is simple, nor is the outcome predictable.

LNT recommends stoves. It would be a shame if scouts camped and never had a campfire to build, sit around, warm themselves, and cook on. Scouts need to learn how to do these things in a safe and responsible manner. I'd rather teach them how to have campfires in a responsible way than ban them. My guys would never even consider having a fire without a shovel and bucket of water or leaving it unattended. They understand the importance of fire safety because they've been taught this since they joined the troop. That being said all rules and laws must be followed. I've seen plenty of trash filled fire pits, smoldering unattended fires, and trees stripped of branches around campfire rings. Hopefully it not Scouts who are doing this.

One thing that I think is of paramount importance is to make sure everyone knows the expectations. My troop's policy is in writing, it is reviewed at a new scout/parent orientation when they join, it's posted on our website, and every family gets a copy and signs for it. There's no reason for a member to have an questions about our policy. Of course the problems happen when you have a change of policy in mid stream like we did with the new "active" language in the GTA. In that case I think you have to allow the scout work under the old guidelines until he completes the rank he's currently working on. In our case we just continued on with our current policy knowing (or hoping) that we now had BSA backing.

sailingpj, that's where your unit steps in to set the standards. My troop handbook says "To be active in ones Troop or Patrol you are required to attend at least 2 meetings per month and one Troop or Patrol activity per quarter to fulfill this requirement for rank advancement..." This requirement has been in place since before I was SM.

My favorite B-P quote: "The Scoutmaster must be alert to check badge hunting as compared to badge earning.

Any combination of months, the requirements doesn't say "consecutive months". Your unit can decide how it wants to define active. 2012 Advancement Guide 4.2.3.1 says: "The Scout meets the units reasonable expectations; or, if not, a lesser level of activity is explained. If, for the time period required, a Scout or qualifying Venturer or Sea Scout meets those aspects of his units pre-established expectations that refer to a level of activity, then he is considered active and the requirement is met. Time counted as active need not be consecutive. A boy may piece together any times he has been active and still qualify." So your unit active requirements need to be reasonable, pre-established, and time doesn't need to be consecutive.

"The Repulicans are dirty awful people with no redeeming value at all." "The republican party itself may not be a racist organization, but it is #1 with racists" Do these comments only refer to Republicans you personally don't like or all registered Republicans in general? And we wonder why the country is in the position it is these days.

The boys in the troop know it too.

I've been in that position and it's not an fun place to be.

double post(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

The Scout made the agreement under duress therefore the contract is null and void. Sorry, I'm just practicing to be a Scout Lawyering Merit Badge counselor (or is it councilor?)

Horizon, I wish Philmont would be more open to other methods. My backpacking method is to do Freezer Bag cooking. No pots to clean, just a spoon. Lick the spoon clean and dip it in the boiling water before the next meal. Not allowed in Philmont, you need to carry the large pots and wash dishes.

I think Scouts appealing Eagle should have to argue their case in person before the District, Council and National Appeals Boards. It's too easy now to just write a letter and let someone else sort out the mess. I think that's part of what's going on in the recent case where a scout would rather appeal than go on three camping trips. Easier to write a letter and put the CC and SM through the mill.

3 tub wash stations are good for plop camping but how about when you're backpacking? What's your method then? The Philmont way or something different?

Calling your opponent a racist or a nazi only serves to divert the conversation away from the real issues.

Mountaineer said "The BSA is not awarding PM certifications as part of the Eagle rank (get over it)" Really? Get over what? Maybe you could go back and reread my post. I was comparing the testing procedure of the two, not advocating that every Eagle earn a Paramedic license. Geez! Also you might believe that Eagles are not "the best of the best". I believe that Eagles SHOULD represent the best of the best in Scouting. I believe that unfortunately we need to make improvements, many of which desertrat77 just mentioned. Eagledad, I don't know about letting scouts pick the Eagles based on their experience with the candidates. Boys have a natural desire to be fair and to help others succeed. I've seen it many times during troop elections when a scout is elected to PL or SPL or appointed to a position based solely on the fact that they "need" a job for advancement. When offered the choice between electing the best person for the job or electing someone who needs a POR they always seem to choose the one who needs it. I can't imagine a troop voting down a boy for Eagle except in the most extreme circumstance. Of course all of this is just musings that make for good conversation. We have to work within the system we're handed.

Mountaineer said "The BSA is not awarding PM certifications as part of the Eagle rank (get over it)" Really? Get over what? Maybe you could go back and reread my post. I was comparing the testing procedure of the two, not advocating that every Eagle earn a Paramedic license too. Geez! Also you might believe that Eagles are not "the best of the best". I believe that Eagles SHOULD represent the best of the best in Scouting. I believe that unfortunately we need to make improvements, many of which desertrat77 just mentioned.

NOLS WIlderness Medicine calls for 1 tablespoon of bleach per gallon of water. That seems a little much for me but a few drops is not enough.(This message has been edited by Eagle732)

All good humor must have some basis in reality.

Well it might happen. I propose that the cost for the weekend testing be $200 (the same cost as a NYLT course). Of course all evaluators are volunteers that will actually pay for the privilege to test Eagles. So aside from the cost of food and some minor supplies this would be all profit for the council.

I've heard (and I have no idea if this is true and and I'm not taking the time to research it) that Queen's Scouts in England use to (or maybe still do) have to test on all the scout skills just prior to earning the award. The testing is done by what I guess would be district or regional leaders, not the boys unit leaders. If BSA would ever get serious about making Eagle a rank representing true skill then a re-testing method like this would ensure the skills are mastered. I'd exchange the Eagle project for a thorough testing policy. Imagine a SM needing to work with a Life scout for months preparing him for his final skills test at council. I could see a testing procedure similar to what I went through for my National Registry Paramedic license. Four hours of written tests followed by four hours of practical skills testing. All tests must be passes to be licensed or earn Eagle. Testing could be done over a weekend at the local scout camp. And only Eagle Scouts can be evaluators. Of course this would never happen. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

OK, trivia question. How much bleach in the sanitize tub? Also had an interesting discussion with a seasoned scouter who swore it was wash, sanitize, rinse.