Eagle732

Yea, one of the keys to leadership is having a vision and then being able to get others to "buy into it" to help you achieve it. Woodbadge 101.

"All these bans and rules are in place because someone did something stupid and then got a lawyer..... " Yes but I can still get hot coffee at McDonalds. Lawsuits are just part of the cost of doing business today. What is the cost of a hundred rules that stifle the program? (Not that I'm advocating breaking any of them!)

Agree with eolesen on not getting into the tent business if you can avoid it but it sounds like you're already there so... We encourage our Venture Patrol to bring their own tents, they use backpacking tents all year but they own them and are a little more experienced and careful with them. Also it's a little perk for them. For the rest of the troop we use Timberline 4s, for our typical monthly camping trips. They are durable but heavy, cost about $175 each. We have some that are 5 years old and still in good condition. I don't think you will find a backpacking tent that will hold up to Boy Scout use on a regular monthly basis, especially the new boys. For backpacking we use home made tarps made of plastic sheeting. I just bought a silnylon 10 x 12 tarp from Campmor, weighs 1 lb, 6 oz and cost $119. It should be pretty durable and we should be able to fit 4 boys under it. I have a Eureka Tetragon and could never get the fly to stop leaking at the top even though I seam sealed it repeatedly. Just my experience. Just a thought, do you have connections with anyone high up in the military? We had some sleeping bags donated to us from the local National Guard. The Army uses MSR dome tents. Maybe you could arrange a donation? They would be heavy but durable. How about something used but in good condition?

Our chuck boxes look like these: http://sne.tripod.com/plans.htm If I was going to build them I'd look at what each patrol needs to carry and build the box to fit, trying to keep it as small as possible. They can get very heavy. We use a garden wagon to move them.

The CC and the AC don't have to take part in the BOR but it sure would have been nice (read Courteous) to give them both a heads up. Hard to keep good help when you don't communicate and respect each other.

Oh, and he'll be an Eagle irregardless of the SM signing off or not. Saw an appeal go two full years until National sided with the scout, he got Eagle. There was even a thread on it here, maybe the longest one in history if you care to read it. Everyone swore it was BS and it couldn't go that long but it did. I knew both parties personally.

"Scout explored moving to another troop, and was sent back to us (a gentle suggestion that he should work out his problems with us rather than move)." Nice the unit did the right thing. I wish I had received the same courtesy a few years ago when we caught a scout cheating on his fundraising (unauthorized fundraising and misappropriating money). Committee suspended him so he joined another troop and got Eagle in 2 weeks.

No fee is paid by the unit for the COR although he is registered to the unit. He is a Council member but not a member at large. Councils have three classes of members; members at large, CORs and executive members. At least that's my understanding but I might be wrong.

I was pointing to two specific examples, Pack 79 and Pack 121, the later I posted a link to an article to. Both units in my opinion are violating BSA's policy. 79 is violating the BSA policy on not approving gay adult leaders and 121 is violating the youth membership policy by allowing girls to be Cub Scouts. Each examples of teaching sexuality or civil disobedience. They are advocating breaking the rules and bringing it to the public by making a press event of it to the great glee of the press. The kids know the adults are breaking the rules, I think it sets a bad example. BSA sets the policy, if they change it I'll go with it, no problem here. I don't care either way. I just don't think we (me or my unit) are in the business of teaching sexuality or civil disobedience. I would rather my scouts write letters to the CSE explaining why the policies should be changed. And if they chose to do that I would support them. In the mean time I have more pressing things to tend to such as our upcoming backpacking trip.

Yes packsaddle, comparing someone with a different opinion to a "patch nazi" or calling them "grand' are, in my opinion snide remarks that are personal and irrelevant to the discussion. I'm not even sure we have a difference of opinion. However I don't believe it is our purpose as Scouters to teach civil disobedience to our Scouts. I'll stand by my previous statement that we should teach them how to make changes in a proper and positive way to the injustices they see.

The way I handle this is by having a short ( no more than a few minutes) Scoutmaster's Conference with the scout. We agree on a MBC, briefly discuss the requirements and I ask him if he has any questions on the process. It really doesn't have anything to do with control, just making sure the scout as a good experience and has the support he needs.

And so we lower the standards to meet the standards that are suppose to raise our standards. Makes perfect sense. I certainly don't blame the lodge youth leadership, they're just trying to follow the adult JTE program. JTE is just another scheme that forces adult goals on a program that is suppose to be youth led.

rismith, I think we're talking about following rules in general. I site two cases, one involving a girl who was allowed to join a Cub Pack and the Pack 79 policy. One has to do with bending the rules thus allowing girls to join a boy program the other has to do with adult eligibility. Maybe you should not be so quick to be post derogatory remarks as 2 out of you 8 total posts have been. It's easy to hide behind a computer and make snide remarks but on this site we almost always have civil, polite, conversations. Although the experienced posters often disagree we always respect each other as dedicated scouters. If you want to make things personal please feel free to PM me at any time. (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

OakTree, If you're going to quote me please don't do it in a misleading way by taking things I say out of context or buy using misleading partial quotes. I did say "I don't think the example I want to set for my scouts is of one who chooses what rules to follow and which ones to ignore." Notice I used "I" meaning this is my personal opinion. I don't expect, nor do I care if you agree with me. And in the very next sentence, which you conveniently left out, I said: "I would rather them learn to follow the rules and work in a positive way to change the ones they think are wrong." So since you're such a big believer in civil disobedience who gets to decide which rules are immoral, impractical, or just ridiculous, a 12 year old boy? (This message has been edited by Eagle732)

If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? If a scout earns a merit badge and no one is around to see him complete it, did he really earn it?

I don't have this problem. Our DE and DC refuse to even talk to us! Life is good

The Scout and I always come to an agreement on who the MBC will be, then we fill out the card. I would hope that a scout would not come back with a card signed by someone else unless he had a real good reason. I believe it is the SM's responsibility to assign the MBC but I usually do it with input from the scout. We also have one MB that scouts can only take at the troop level, First Aid.

I always follow up with the scout after he completes a merit badge. When we don't have a MBC from out troop list and have to refer to the District list I get the scouts opinion on the MBC. If he had a good experience I contact the MBC and ask if he would like to work with our scouts in the future and then add him to our list. We also recruit MBCs from our CO and other local organizations that we work with such as the local American Legion post. We try not to depend on the District list since it's so out of date.

During our district winter camp last year the lodge offered brotherhood conversions. I sent three scouts up to participate. It literally took the scouts longer to walk up to the meeting hall then to complete the requirements for Brotherhood. I was told they just repeated all requirements in unison. They all came back with nice new Brotherhood sashes. The lodge needs a certain number of conversions to make Quality Lodge and this seems to be more important than a quality program. Unfortunately this is the unintended consequences of the JTE philosophy.

Well I have a dozen books to make an official complaint with but am still waiting for a reply to the email I sent over a week ago requesting an address and to whom they need to be sent to.

The Scoutmaster deals with them by not recommending the "power hungry" MBCs to Scouts. The scouts deal with it amongst themselves by letting each other know which MBCs to avoid. My troop established its own merit badge councilor list which consists of people who we know will work with our scouts. I have to admit that I've never met a power hungry MBC, only ones who enjoy helping boys learn about a subject they have an interest in.

Frank, since you have the inside scoop keep us posted!

I'm lucky to have a great UC. Every time we talk he asks "is there anything I can do for you?". He gets it.

I think you're right And by the way, you and I are agreeing way too much theses days

My state of Maryland passed gay marriage and it will now be on a referendum this November. My guess is it will not be overturned.