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Lot of good comments Summary is the BSA (SA??) has not fully defined what it is and what they do. When I joined way back when it was a game with a purpose, we had adventures, learned things, sampled many different hobbies and interests, and most importantly learned to work in groups and take care of ourselves. As we matured we went from follower to leader. Over the years the BSA strayed from that to want to become the swiss army knife of youth groups. We do everything. Also more focus on advancement and formal learning and less emphasis on experiential learning. 1/2 the required

How about going back to an earlier version?

I have been told that Scouting has been my surrogate family, with the adults in my life being surrogate fathers, the Scouts in my youth as surrogate brothers, and depending upon what age as an adult I was, me serving in a older brother or father role. I have served in various roles for over 30 years, and until recently also had a passion for Scouting. Read some of my posts over the past 5 years so see issues. I have rebuilt so much over the years, and the current state of Scouting is deeply depressing: declining membership, inability to get council support, ad nauseum. My troop is dying

It took a while, but I stopped letting overly demanding sports programs, and over the top coaches, get to me. I tried to make the youth understand that there are myriad choices in life, and making them is part of the "growing up" process. Ultimately, they need to choose, hopefully with focus and balance. Too many chose the overly demanding sports road, but with luck may have carried a small piece of the tenets of Scouting with them. A few, returned and refocused on Scouting. We never know. One of the good things about contact with the troop family over decades is that on occasion I see t

This thread is bumping with all of the controversial topics. I don't buy the stages of decline. Most of the changes are in line with the international scouting community (the name is more inline with international naming conventions, 173 of the 216 WOSM members are full coed at last count, shooting sports is heavily regulated in most countries, this seems like standardization not grasping for straws.). I've heard the moms discussion points, it's what BSA teaches the professional scouters to focus on. For some reason there is an emphasis on hooking moms on the value of the program and lit

I gave up referencing myself a while ago, so I won’t link to the thread that shows this data, but here goes anyway … while BSA was mulling over including girls in packs and troops (under the corporate double-speak “family scouting”), there was a WOSM census that revealed that membership declined in nearly every European country immediately after their scouting organization incorporated girls. Recovery to where they would have the same number of boys as they did before desegregation would take decades, if it has occurred yet at all. The UK took 25 years. So, if BSA is indeed about serving

To acquire Venturers in any significant number, the registration fee will have to be less than the cost of a pizza and a movie. While we’re rumoring, scuttle but says there are co-Ed troops being piloted. But even on an informal basis this is happening. I was manning a station at spring Camporee and saw several patrols of mixed sexes. One or two may have bee ad hoc, but a couple operated well enough that I figured they weren’t segregated OPO.

The obvious answer is that we haven't changed the name of the organization enough. I'm certain people will be knocking the doors down now.

Last time National improved the program, Bill Hillcourt had to come out of retirement to lead it.

We have faced some of the same challenges During visits (AOLs were off with the scouts as we meet in the woods behind the church) our leadership discussed with the parents the various outings (gorge trip, boating, kayaking, backpacking, biking, etc); youth led troop, servant leadership, Scouts camping away from leaders, etc etc. As I watched the parents and listened to the few questions, my comment as we huddled after...they are not buying what we're selling. They expect Cubs part 2 and we scare them. Programming for 11 year olds means the youth likely leave in a year or 2. Need to c

Another decision not mentioned in National Report, FleishmanHillard ($$$) which has previously worked with the BSA, was chosen as PR Agency of Record (AOR) in November 2023 with a focus on the rebrand. BSA Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) Michael Ramsey said his team is amplifying the organization’s message to reach youth and families across the country via national press releases and a social strategy that “leans hard into” Instagram and LinkedIn. “We have a lot of our leaders on LinkedIn,” said Ramsey. “But video is the backbone of a lot of the things we are doing. We are also lookin

I wonder if work culture has also had an impact on membership declines. Both of my parents had good, steady jobs with the same employer for 30+ years, but they rarely worked over 40 hours per week. Today, my wife and are always within 20 feet of our laptops. We log-in during off hours to get caught up or work ahead. At times, I wonder if this is really necessary since our jobs aren't that great; however, they are good enough where we don't want to lose them. I'm sorry to say the thought of taking kids camping for a full weekend sounds exhausting.

I’ve been preaching for a more simple cub program for many years because it pulls down the membership for all the other programs. But, I fear it’s the troop program that will be changed, which doesn’t need change. National has rarely shown to make changes to better the program toward a better program. Barry

I've been thinking about it for a couple of days. I've come to the conclusion that the BSA was pretty much my home. It may sound silly, but I can remember the first day I walked into the BSA office in my current council. I had never set foot in that place before, but I felt like I had just walked into my home once again. I did a little reading on rebranding this morning and found out that it's not unusual for brands to lose 20% of their loyal customers following rebranding. I was extremely passionate about the BSA and worked hard to revive a unit, expand the program, and be involved as mu

Another random thought, it does explain why Jim Kirk was never a Boy Scout. https://y.yarn.co/193eb197-66ad-4b5c-843a-0519c7779c8b.mp4

It's OK for us to be a little different. For all our troubles, the US is still exceptional in many respects. We've gifted the world airplanes, the telephone, the internet, Post-It notes, and sliced bread. Clearly, we're getting a few things right over here. 🙂 I respect that your experience may have been different from mine and believe yours to be valuable too, but most kids in the US already get 8 hours of mixed-gender interaction in school. Many extra-curriculars, aside from athletics, are also integrated. Boys and girls already have ample opportunities to interact. The si

I would say my troop is pretty outdoorsy. We camp 10/12 months, with a lock in IF possible in December and 2 weekends of Scouting For Food in February, being the 2 months we do not camp. Even during COVID, we continued to meet, virtually and outside, had monthly day trips in the outdoors, and even did our own summer camp. Yes we car camp, but we also backpack, cycle, and do canoeing and whitewater activities. And the Scouts pick Summer Camps with the program they want, with the only caveat being it has to be within an 8 hour drive. The last 2 batches of Webelos that visited, the activitie

18 Eagle required MBs can be done fully/nearly fully indoor while 4 (cooking, camping, hiking and cycling) have substantial outdoor requirements. BSA lost me on "scouting is outdoors" when they added Citizenship in Society merit badge. Most of my Eagle Scouts have said Wilderness Survival should be Eagle Required but yet BSA went with another discuss/research/report type badge. In addition, my Troop was the only one to camp outdoors during our recent district's Klondike. In the past the Patrols camping outdoors would be awarded more points...not this year. In fact, the Patrols who did

Of course, a name change on 9/1/24. Effective September 1, 2024, Scouting’s Shooting Sports programs within all programs including Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Venturing and Sea Scouting will be referred to as Range and Target Activities. No non-commercial club ranges - nationally authorized camp property’s range(s) or at a commercial firearm range only. Venture sporting programs have taken a hit.. excerpt [9/1/2024 Shooting Sports Program Updates Effective September 1, 2024, Scouting’s Shooting Sports programs within all programs including Cub Scouting, Scouts BSA, Venturing and

Also factor in impact to unit planning. If your council is different than ours, God bless. I can look at our council calendar today for August-December, and there are no dates for camporee listed. I can see OA weekend dates and NYLT weekend dates. Our unit is not unlike many around us, that planning meeting with PLC will take place before the end of July. If we don't have event dates to consider, then those events are not going to be considered. We will give deflection to not plan our weekend for one of the months there is an OA weekend for those who wish to attend that, but we aren't going to

I am grateful for the scouts I have reached. Whether they were only Cubs, if they joined the troop one year and left, or if they stayed long enough to earn Eagle. Everyone walks a different path. Everyone has lessons they need to learn. They all take something from the program, no matter how long they stay with it. The more you give to scouting, the more you get out of it. This is the right attitude. Realize that families are different, sports are different... There are lots more activities and stresses taking up kids' time than there was 20 years ago. We are not going to have as man

LOL, thought you were talking about council/district events. Training is another matter... (Even so, training is not a unit mandated thing... those are mandates on individuals.) Disagree Sure, but if a PLC decides they do not wish to participate in these events, you should support their decision. For example, our Scouts choose not to go to many of these events because they are tired of WINNING!! For most competitions, it isn't even close. It just isn't fun for them to whoop everyone's behind. So, they only attend these things about once every three years. And we adul

This has always been the situation during my time in scouting. What might be a little surprising is that even some two-parent families look for programs with male role modes to help develop their sons. I'm not sure if the reason is because the culture is anti-male and they are looking for reinforcement of masculine behavior, or the father is out of the picture a lot from work. But our troop had several scouts in that situation. Looking at this further, I wouldn't be surprised that families would be looking for the experiences for their daughters since the evidence also shows that girls s

BSA can follow a pretty wide lane and be “in line” as far as WOSM is concerned. The largest or fastest-growing WOSM programs have been sex-segregated. In many of these countries the Guides and Scouts collaborate nicely. So, to really fall in line, BSA and GS/USA would “play nice” together, and that ain’t happening. I think we in the U.S. are faced with an influx of citizens like no other country, and many parents from Europe and South America may envision scouting as co-ed because that’s all they’ve known since childhood. On the other hand parents from India, Indonesia, and Gulf states on

After the whole Hawaii thing how did we not see something happening? I don't think this is that big of a deal. Sure name change, but, we still have shooting sports. We're a very broad topic youth organization, not a shooting sports organization. The reduction in options is not that big of a deal, if a scout really likes shooting, and wants to get into different styles, different calibers, super serious with reloading etc ... why can't they go shoot clays on Tuesday night at their gun club, and roll into their troop meetings on Wednesday at the local church?

Your camps have wifi? LOL Seriously, wifi in the past has been a serious concern. There is one camp the troop likes that has extremely pour internet, to the point where their office staff will take turns driving into town to use the local McDonald's wifi.

I just did a crossover with our primary feeder pack. The pack has 90 scouts. Roughly 20 Lions, 20 Tigers, 20 Wolves, 15 Bears, 10 Webelos and 5 AOL. Of the 5 AOL only 1 wants to continue in Scouts. That 1 only joined Cub Scouts this year.... I talked with the other 4 parents. - They are looking to reduce activities after 5th grade - All are planning to increase their kids involvement in travel sports.... So no time left for scouts

Also not sure about this heading: Preparing Young People for Lives of Purpose and Impact Seems a bit vague and non definitive, more feel good than actionable.

I am not that worried about a DBA, or Trademark name. I am also not concerned about co-ed troops. I understand the concerns that some have expressed. However, if the Patrol Method and Scout-Led is done correctly, I see those as the mitigating factor for all the concerns. For example, one concern was that some boys want to be separate from the girls; to do their own thing without having to worry about primping etc... Then the Patrol Method and Scout Led is the solution. In a Scout Led, Patrol Method troop, the scouts choose their own patrols so these boys can choose to be all together as a

Agreed. I do not know the settlement of the wrongful death suit (August, 2023) against Aloha Council/BSA. Some random concerns I do not understand why "commercial ranges" are assumed safer than member-only sportsmen clubs (prohibited?) or more cooperative with an outside group program. This will likely end Council relationships with local, non-commercial sportsmen club which not only teach firearm safety and marksmanship but often host Klondike Derbies and scout fundraising events (turkey shoots, clay-breaking). The Marksman Experience at Bechtel will have to drop high-po

Probably trace this directly to Hawaii I think. No changes noted for archery.

There will be a good case study applying the "how the mighty fall" stages to the BSA. https://www.clevelandconsultinggroup.com/articles/how-the-mighty-fall-why-some-companies-never-give-in.php

2022 Report Cubs - 580,194 Scouts - 415,564 Venturing and Sea Scouts - 15,400 Explorers - 30,870 TOTAL - 1,042,028 2023 Report Cubs - 574,365 (-1.0%) Scouts - 392,275 (-5.6%) Venturing and Sea Scouts - 14,961 (-2.9%) Explorers - 33,445 (8.3%) TOTAL - 1,015,046 (-2.6%)

Another factor, membership losses are that bad that it affects the ratio.

Last year there was a rumor out of the national meeting about a new program for older scouts to replace venturing. I think national is still baking that one, I cornered a local who is on one of the national committees and he was like "I know of the rumor you're talking about, I can't discuss that." and he wouldn't say a word. So I would say there is legs to the rumor but no one has details/will provide. Venturing is really in the decline where I am at. What I see is that some troops sporadically have a handful of engaged older scouts and so they form a crew for a couple years and then when

Maybe that is why the Venturing Director made that announcement. To quote Han Solo:

The OA has lost a lot of meaning in my neck of the woods. And now that everybody who wants in gets in. None of my Scouts are interested. In the past 6 years, only 1 person wanted in, and he was pushed by his dad who was an Arrowman in his youth. He did the Ordeal, and went to a meeting, and it was so bad he never went again. As for 2 of my sons, despite telling the OA election team they were not interested in joining the OA and remove their names from the ballot, their names remained and they did get elected. But never did their Ordeal. The reason they told me was that the OA is no longer

With respect, I would start with the 4th grade Webelos. I was around in the old 3 year Cub Scout program, when you had 9-12 months to earn both Webelos and AOL and cross over. One year was not enough time to prepare for the differences in programs. When the 18-24 month program came out in the 1990s, it was based upon research, and the training of the time emphasized the differences between the two programs and how Webelos needed to start transition in 4th grade. When the training got updated circa 2009, that information was not emphasized as much as the older training. IMHO separating al

We really old guys likely chuckle, or get annoyed by the complaints about that type of thing. I was 15 and a Life Scout when I was sitting on a log at campfire at old Camp Arataba and guys in nice regalia were moving about in the crowd. All of a sudden a very loud yell in my ear found me being jerked to my feet and pushed to the front of the area where I was "tapped out", and I mean TAPPED OUT. All of us were then taken to get sleeping bags and went off to the woods. Of course that was when most tap outs were done heavily and you might hear the shoulder tap a long way away. We all wore th

As a Troop, we have seen massive losses before crossover, so we are looking to pilot running the 5th grade AOL program. Our plan is to hold AOL meetings concurrently with Troop Meetings had have our Troop Guide and a ASM run the den meeting. Basically take over for the den leaders. Not sure if it will work, but we figured it can't be worse than what has been happening the last 3 years.

FINALLY ! Our time with Pinewood Derby shows results : : :

Once BSA moved to admit girls, it should have changed the name to reflect its dual membership. Once BSA decided to accept girls' membership dollars, and charge girls the same fees that it charges to boys, it had a duty to make sure the general program experiences and opportunities were similar. That's what a well managed, functional organization would do. If it didn't want girls, and it didn't want their membership numbers and their membership dollars, then it would have made sense to retain the old name and the old perspectives and live with that. But that's not what the organization did, and

Just a guess.... GSUSA may well be ok with seeing us rebrand as Scouting America but would consider it a bridge too far if all we do is drop the word girl from their name.

My take is that it needs a tagline: (Except for Canada, Mexico, Central and South America) No clue why we can’t be Scouts USA.

You must be doing it wrong. 75% of scouting is outing.

I remember boys hiking the 3+ miles from the Boy Scout summer camp to the nearby Girl Scout summer camp in the evenings in the late 1970s. As was said earlier, "where there's a will, there's a way" -- but we don't have to make it easier for them. I personally felt there was a place for -- nay, a need for -- single-sex instruction in some things. The vast majority of teenage boys I knew -- from the time when I was a teenager myself until present -- don't focus well when there's a teenage girl nearby. Or rather, they focus well but not necessarily on what I need them to focus on. Having

Because GSUSA was not meeting their desire for an adventurous program. And their leadership does not want to change. While society does indeed teach there are no differences in roles, psychology and other sciences do show otherwise. Give me until the weekend to get the research collected. Because research from way back, and event to this day, shows that both boys and girls need their own spaces without the opposite gender present to develop. Again, GSUSA has not listened to their base, and have lost many over the years.

I think that changing the name to appease simpletons isn't a good solution, but it seems to be the way the BSA wants to go anyway. Rather than expect people to be critical thinkers and rise up to the organization's level, it will come down to meet them. We saw this with the elimination of the Bobcat badge. Simpletons were confused so the solution was to destroy a legacy rather than insist that people take time to learn and understand. To me, the BSA has been the only constant in my life. My parents divorced when I was young, so neither was in my life 100% of the time. We moved around

After talking to a professional recently, the writing in the wall that the "trial" period of 8/24-7/25 will be successful and full integration will occur. Also from the discussion, if you do not go coed, the council may not be able to help you recruit. I know my troop's volunteers will be meeting about folding the troop at the end of the year. Between existing challenges, and hint that we need to go coed or we will not be supported hit hard. But as @Scoutldr said, That is the sentiment of a lot of the boys I have worked with over the years. Sadly there are fewer and f