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Welcome to the forum, @Eloisefig. That's certainly no fun. It sounds like you've already made up your mind and I can't blame you. Good luck. But I'm not sure how much better luck you're going to have elsewhere. It seems to me that every troop I know of is struggling. Anyway, I few observations: In your meeting with the SPL and ASPL you dumped a whole lot of new ideas on them that they likely don't understand if they've never seen it before. Babies don't take smaller steps then older children, they stumble around and crash a lot. Sometimes they need to be caught before they crack the

I see this idea often, not just from @HICO_Eagle “The BSA would have done something if only the abused kid would testify.” First, that’s pretty classic blame the victim. Second, in my case in the 90’s, an ASM did raise concerns and was told it was fine and the YP rules were being followed. After several years of abuse I did testify, on my own with the support of my family and zippo from BSA. So it’s always frustrating to read that because in the instance I know, the exact opposite happened. I doubt I’m one in a 100 thousand. On balance wouldn’t it have been much much bette

Now we are talking about BSA in general. You are way off on the homosexual vs bisexual comment. The great majority of pedophiles are heterosexual. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/1556756/ On whether the Boy Scouts did their best... I don't think I can add anything that will change your mind but note that your description of how an SE or TCC would have analyzed the situation has no mention of doing the right thing and is all about liability and reputation.

I’ll go one further: integrating the local community is the only way forward. There are hundreds of ways to do this. Waiting for National’s next marketing campaign is the least effective.

He was blocked re-registering in the 1970s and 1980s. The 1968 letter had the SE say they could not ignore the accusations and said it was Brock's actions that led to the result. For 1968, this seems like it was handled well ... for 1968 ... before computers ... before modern laws. This sounds like BSA's files worked well. The one thing that surprised me is no police report. So so so many of the files do have police reports. I bet there was not a 1968 chargeable crime. The 1960s were a long time ago and so much has change. A lot has changed.

Dear Scouters, I just wanted to introduce myself and say what a great resource this website is and how excited I am to be a part of it! I am overwhelmed (in a good way) by the amazing resources available about and for Scouting. I was a Scout as a youth decades ago. I achieved the rank of Life Scout, and I was also Senior Patrol Leader. Last year, I volunteered to be my son's den leader, which was my first experience as an adult leader. I have many fond memories as a Scout, and Scouting is one of the main reasons I love the outdoors as an adult. We go camping as a family every year w

And, for the history buffs, see page 49 in the attachment, right side, #10. 2007 Printing, BSAGuideToSafeScouting.pdf

Take out point 5, everything else applies when drivers are on their own. Before cell phones, we moved a whole troop of 120 six-hundred-miles and ended up at the destination with in 15-20 minutes. So it works well. Before cell phones, we used radios that had a range of 50 miles. Our trailer broke an axle in Colorado and all other cars knew within minutes. A plan was set to which car would help and which ones would continue to next stop at a safe place for a bunch of scouts. Much better than stopping a whole caravan of cars along side a busy two lane highway. Barry

Here’s a great winter Scout hat

One of the reasons I was surprised to have them eliminate the filing of the Tour Permit. That was another check to try and make sure rules were followed, as the permit had them and also included verifications of insurance and so on.

This is Hooey, When the initial allegations came forward about the nude photos he could have been removed as a member of the BSA period. There is no god given right to be an adult member of BSA. How many young boys could have been saved? And they did have standing as he was part of their organization. Taking nude photos of young boys and having sexual relationships with them is neither homosexuality or bisexuality. How can you possibly say they removed the threat as best they could when after the nude photos came up they allowed him access to children. That is called gross neglig

This statement I can't get out of my mind. I am a child of the 60's having been born in the early 50's. I had long hair, I smoked pot, I questioned authority, and I witnessed and read about all that was going on in that time period. Not once was Free Love about sex with children or taking photos of young boys to satisfy perverted sexual desire it was about consensual sex with consenting adults and not feeling guilty about it.

One trick with PLC: instead of one lengthy meeting a month, consider reserving 15 minutes after the regular troop meetings. This basically gives boys just enough time for after action review and time to plan the next event. Not great, but if it increases attendance you’ll have double your time in terms of man-hours attendance.

At that time that was probably as good as any other youth programs were or could do. Of course it is and will always be less than perfect.

The school board found a way to get kids to read books ... announce that they are banned. I would think BSA would be fine accepting controversial Eagle Scout projects. One of our youth did a project for an organization that provides housing for primarily LGBTQ youth who were abused at home. That said, there was a clear benefactor and and the project wasn't directed against any political group. So, I could see a way for a project like this could work in the BSA, but not in the manner it was conducted as a Gold project.

Welcome, @captkeating! I can relate to your excitement about reconnecting to scouting as an adult leader! I'm sure you will have a great time together, while Building a Better World while you're at it! I saw a joke BSA leader badge on Etsy the other day that said "CAT HERDER" and that seems to be the job as a cub scout leader! Good for you for stepping up! I'm thinking about incorporating collaboration games into next year's pack meetings to give the cats some focused experiences with what happens when you collaborate vs don't 😂

Have been a den leader and a cubmaster. Woodbadge trained. My son joined a troop, and has been in it ~2yrs. It's supervised neglect in my opinion. There is no ILST, PLC meetings are few an far between, with no guidance, agenda, etc. It's like lord of the flies. I offered to help. Scoutmaster(new to the position last year), said sure, and we talked about ideas, baby steps, while still allowing the scout led process. Had a 1.5hr sit down with SPL and ASLP(2 deep leadership of course- myself and SPL dad/leader), to go over how to structure PLC, things they can do, how to structure meetings, h

Where I have seen it “fail” is when you get on local roads with traffic lights. It can easily split up and cause people to either brake hard or “blow” a light. Not good stuff.

May 2, 2024: "ST. LOUIS – U.S. District Judge Rodney W. Sippel on Thursday sentenced a former Boy Scout volunteer to 22 years in prison for hiding cameras in bathrooms at a St. Francois County, Missouri scout camp. Judge Sippel also ordered David Lee Nelson to pay $55,000 in special assessments that will go to a fund for victims and prevention programs and $6,810 to pay for counseling for the victims in this case. After he gets out of prison, Nelson will be on supervised release for life, with special conditions that include a prohibition against any contact with minors without permi

I think it used to be policy to not convoy. Still it is best practice to avoid them. Even if you meet together and travel as a group, make sure each driver has directions and knows where the destination is. Drivers should be focused on the road, not trying to stay together in a convoy. Have a plan to communicate, whether it is by cell phone, walkie-talkie, whatever.

Should still be there. National added it when they found scout car accidents occur more often in convoys. Following drivers pay less attention when the aren't navigating and often break traffic laws trying to catch up to the lead car. A lot of motorcyclist have accidents in group rides for the same reason. We found that all the cars typically show up to the destination within 15 minutes even after a 600 mile day. Of course the the SM always showed up first. Barry

I did see in somewhere. I will look. It isn't a good idea, so don't do it. Copy for 1999 has it: Guide to Safe Scouting (scoutingbsa.org)

There are a number of helps for this sort of thing. Unfortunately, I can't point you to them! The site https://troopresources.scouting.org/ is undergoing an upgrade due out this month. However, it's not too hard to leaf through the handbook and ask the scouts to pick a chapter to work on for the next coming month. Usuallly after summer camp the scouts' advancement starts to diverge, then the PLC's are about asking what is the skill that most boys in their patrol need to master, and how would they like adults to help with that. DON'T focus on advancement per se. DO focus on skills to

I asked my dad, but it was the generation before him that experienced the change so his experience was pretty much like mine... at this point you really need a historian, the people who lived it are almost all dead now. I did find out that during his time, our troop was a sea scout ship. They spent a lot of spring meetings readying the boats. We still owned some of them when I came through, moored at the same dock. Even though we were a troop we did learn to rig and sail gigs, probably because the troop used to be a ship!

Like Skeptic, all this attention to gender in BSA scouting made me curious about what gender-segregated scouting in Sweden used to be like. Even the words for gender segregated scouting sound antiquated and sepia-toned. It's hard to imagine. But apparently someone wrote a thesis on it recently, and so Scouterna has an information page on it. Since there's a language barrier for all other WOSM NSOs other than Scouts UK, I thought I'd post a translation. "Scout magazine MARCH 8, 2022 When the girls took up scouting That others than boys would be allowed to be part of the Scouts wa

They know the deal when they sign up. Usually they are friends with someone in the Pack. We get most of them back.

The thing is neither BSA as a national organization nor the troop involved had standing. The Scouts involved were the ones who should have filed charges. The problem for BSA then was that accusations without proof of criminal conduct could have had serious repercussions and exposed the organization to liability. Put yourself in the SE or TCC shoes -- you have hearsay witness testimony but you don't know this yourself. You could file a charge with the police but you know the youth and their parents just want it to go away and may not testify. You know under the laws of the time that he

And from the Boy Scouts who very prominently purportedly hold themselves to a higher standard!

It's tough to turn a ship, it takes a lot of work. It can also be risky to turn it too quickly: Bad habits take time to correct and Scouting moves at Scouting speed - which can be frustratingly slow when you see that a lot of change is needed and your energy level for it exceeds those around you. SPLs serve for 6 months. Start working with prospective future SPLs now. Get them to NYLT. Then THEY will ask for ILST, THEY will come to PLCs with agenda. It's going to be tough to change things today. But you have to start planting seeds. If you like the unit otherwise, keep going

If you like, you can probably still send feedback to: commissionerserviceteam@scouting.org

"was twice "called to task" for taking nude photographs of Boy Scouts," you need a law to know that was wrong? "two Scouts came forward to say Brock had "relationships with them as well as other members of the troop" and I know for a fact that the types of relationships he was having was hella illegal, even in the 60's.

Twice called to task for showing bad pictures? I agree it's extremely in appropriate, but what 1968 law would have applied? If we look back on 1960s as the era of free love and redefining society, there is way more to this story than can be read here. And it 100% misses the time and context. ... He was expelled when more came forward. Yeah, the system worked. Like so many case law examples, the incidents are ugly and don't show society at it's best. But, it seems to have worked. ... I agree I'd prefer the police were involved. BUT, that was society in the 1960s. I'm mo

Ahhh... That's a logical fallacy to change scope when the judgement shifts. I was referring to the earlier use of a specific person that where the poster used that person to argue the system failed. From my reading that specific case file, the system worked. ... Similarly, an earlier poster says many of the files refer to incidents in the vaguest terms is yet another logical fallacy. The same files that contain vague references often also contains very specific details and interview notes. It's an ugly topic that indites society; not just scouting. @skeptic ... I really apprecia

Not remotely true.

Simply proof that the IV files were known early on, and that they were not covering them up. The bankruptcy and lawsuits are interrelated. Not news of course.

As a SM, this is the approach took with politics as well as religion. Barry

One of the simplest ways it was described to me as a uniformed adult leader: The scouts should know that you participate in elections. They shouldn't know who you are voting for.

“Organizations like [the Scouts] are symbiotic in that the Scouts benefit from accomplishing their requirements, and the community benefits from the fruits of the Scouts fulfilling their goals,” said U.S. Army Lt. Col. Reuben Doornink. “Scouting has been a big part of my life through the years and being an Eagle Scout can help form near- immediate bonds. Scouting is similar to the military in that I know if my family needed something, I could put it in a chat group and have 10 people at my door,” said Doornink. “One thing that being a Scout taught me is, ‘Keep working on the task regardle

From Rules & Regulations of the Boy Scouts of America July, 2023 Participation in Public Functions (page 6) Scouters must, when practicable, cooperate in connection with civic or other public gatherings of a nonpartisan and nonpolitical character in a way that gives youth members an opportunity to render service in harmony with their training instead of merely taking part in parades in their uniforms. Any such participation must be consistent with the principles of the Scouting movement .... Policy Concerning Political Questions (page 7) The Boy Scouts of America mus

Definitely, IMHO the BSA is conflict averse for better or worse.

Two sides to this. Freedom of expression vs child safety? Our local Eagle Board approves projects that serve the community for greater good, harmonious, good-PR,... The Board is not looking for controversy or conflict.

@fred8033, one of the first Google hits I came across suggested that Girl Scout membership declined from 2.8 million in 2003 to ~1 million in 2021. This would be a point-to point decrease of ~65% over an 18-year span. According to a table I pulled from Wikipedia, BSA membership went from 3.2 million in 2003 to ~1 million in 2021. This would be a point-to point decrease of ~69% over the same period. While some of the BSA's issues have been self-inflicted, I do think the membership challenges are part of a larger societal trend - kids just have a lot more choices these days (and that's

We have no idea how many of those claims are real. And this link suggests this is also just the point of the iceberg. The tar and feathers is due most likely many schools, the Y as here noted, Boys and Girls clubs, uncounted sports groups, and any other youth group the creeps manage to get into. That is the point. The issue is not just BSA, and indications are that based on membership over many decades, the percentages of proven abuse are low in comparison to many. But, the stats are vague, and more is likely unreported or acknowledged than is known. IF the legal vultures decide to go af

https://www.cbalawfirm.com/news/ymca-sexual-abuse/ Just to remind some; the issue is not just one for BSA. Yet, even though this link certainly suggests the Y had just as many issues as BSA, I do not remember seeing any media stories that were tar and feathering them with the intensity of BSA. None of it is okay, but when do we stop somehow making BSA more of a pyria than others?

And this is a surprise? It was written on the wall from the outset almost. Human frailties and too much time were bound to run the train off the rails. And when it is engineered by many questionable lawyers, impossible expectations, and media hype, it should have been obvious. Sadly, the most injured will, as noted, possibly end up with little, while others, find a way to take advantage with little or no proof. There is no equitable way to assure the best outcome, but that will not stop the scammers and carrion birds.

02/21/2024: Another summary of the current legal situation more detailed, yet balanced. Good reporting. https://news.bloomberglaw.com/bankruptcy-law/boy-scouts-settlement-pause-marks-shift-on-bankruptcy-doctrine

Your statement is so true in so many ways. The legal process adds damage for everyone. It's hard to watch. Worse, many attorneys and their firms have already been paid tens of millions in this case. Now, it could start over. Bankruptcy cost so far well over $100 million ??? Wishing you the best thru all this.

Actually, ever since the courts forced the BSA to open their files there have been lawyers and firms that specialized in suing the BSA. They got the statute of limitations thrown out and the flood gates opened. The ineligible volunteer files that helped the BSA for decades keep predators out (prior to the electronic age and national background checks) became a weapon to be used against the BSA. This was and is about a huge 1 Billion $+ payday for lawyers and law firms.

So, tell me again that the legal buzzards are not getting fed. Meanwhile, those that should be first are last, or so it seems. Only in this country I fear is this somehow found okay by many.

"Uniform" is one of the Eight Methods and has a purpose toward developing scout growth. Some adults take that more to heart than others, and use it differently than others. The objective to the "Patrol Method" method is enabling the scouts to think independently while working together as a team. That can be a very challenging expectation of the scouts. For me, the "Uniform" method is a positive part of helping scouts grow in making independent decisions for their outward actions toward the members of their patrol. Interestingly, I find the more troops are boy run, the less they look unifi