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The Patrol Method

Lessons and questions of Scout leadership and operating troop program

821 topics in this forum

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  1. Push Ups

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  2. troop postions

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  3. Bad Patrol Leader 1 2 3 4 5

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  4. JLT ideas 1 2

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  5. Patrol size?

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  6. patrol size 1 2 3 4 6

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    • First, you are entitled to your opinion, but not your own facts. As qwazse amply showed in peer reviewed literature, your assumptions regarding same-gendered education are simply wrong. I'm not worried about my mind being changed when the data points in that direction. I am worried about sexists explicitly (or implicitly) harming girls education and development with outdated, outmoded, and unscientifically based notions of "proper" educational roles. The plural of anecdote is not data. Anecdotal evidence is not adequate to prove something.
    • I recognize the inconsistency in my statement.  In the case of female leaders for male scouts that question was settled years ago. Announcing a new policy that lets units now restrict leaders based on gender is going contrary to the general direction of the evolution of the country.  Making that decision today doesn't help anyone.  Making that decision 40 years ago would have been different. But, were I trying to come up with a co code rule, I would say that in times of transition of commonly held values, the BSA should employ local choice to avoid picking a side on a contentious decision.  It's not in the benefit of Scouting to pick a side.  But since decisions like the gender of leaders is very long since settled, opening up those kind of issues again only goes go create division again on topics that are settled.  I don't think that benefits Scouting.
    • That's not sexist. That is a different opinion based on different information. Shesh. Your supporting my point that you can't (won't) have an open mind because you risk loosing ground on your opinion. Even though you control your opinion. Are you afraid the other person jut might change you mind? Do you really think your information is the only information on the subject? Does personal experience that doesn't agree with your information count for anything.  Seems like folks today can only have a discussion if they feel they have the upper hand. Scoutlike? Even scientist differ on opinions based from personal evidence. As an engineer, I often have different opinions with other engineers even though our numbers are an exact and don't have an opinion..  Barry
    • It is sexist because empirical studies have never universally confirmed this. I have cited studies that point this out. (And here's a review article https://www.apa.org/monitor/2011/02/coed.) Yet you continue to use the same hackneyed assertions. For example, if I were in rural Africa and needed my sons to learn how to start and maintain a fire, I would not send them to the male elders of the village. Because, it is invariably the women who have that responsibility. (My Ugandan niece had formidable skills.) Here in the US, the woman deferring to the man for fire building is a 20th century, almost romantic, role. Prior to that, it was invariably something a boy learned from his mother. At WSJ I sat on Mt. Jack teaching an Indonesian scouts everything about sassafras. One girl took notes and had me draw the leaves in her notebook (with spelling in English and Arabic). I later showed her and her friends how to find blackberries and track bear. Would she have learned more about the plant faster from a woman? I doubt it, simply because there was no woman stopping, with root in hand, offering to brew them some tea while we rested. Meanwhile, the boys were more interested in video games, of which I apologetically said I knew little. We humans learn more faster when the teacher is competent. Competency does include respecting social norms -- which include sex roles.
    • You had me up to here. What is the point of the local option if some options are off the table? All the examples you gave for supporting the local option are political in nature to some degree. This is exactly why many posters (pro gays included) didn't support the local option. How can the local option give COs room to provide a program if the CO is given limited options based on perception. I thought the whole idea of the local option was to give the BSA a break on perception. Barry
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