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  2. Well, the parents would be right. The average kid is far safer from sexual abuse in sports than the average kid in scouting. Sexual abuse of children is a society wide problem in any setting where adults have access to kids, but a kid on a soccer field for two hours in public view is far safer than a kid on a campground overnight in a remote location with unrelated adults. Studies like this highlight our problems with CSA but have little bearing on BSA's experiences and track record with it.
  3. Today
  4. I'm salivating waiting for this. It's going to exactly like climb on safely! A legal chokehold that elevates national from liability and voiding the indemnification clause for leaders who do not have the training and experience an incident. This is directly from climb on safely. "The adult supervisor works cooperatively with the climbing instructor and is responsible for all matters outside of the climbing/rappelling activity. " Climb on safely is not a training course in climbing. Contrary to popular belief it's a sideways acknowledgment from the leader who takes it that if BSA policies
  5. The sporting thing; there's an aspect of this compare and contrast that is not being discussed. https://childusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Five-Key-Findings-from-the-EAS-7.9.2021-Updated.pdf#:~:text=18.3% (nearly 1 in 5) of elite athletes,minor by a sport official or peer athlete. Because of the decentralized nature of sports, schools, clubs, etc ... there's no great big target with a big pocket of money (when comparing to BSA). So for 30 years there are local discussion when a pedo coach or physically abusive coach or exclusionary club gets caught doing the wrong thing; however, the
  6. Lot of wrong information about that second discussion with the SM about the MB. Page 41 of the GTA states that the 2nd discussion with the SM is supposed to be about the scouts experience, not a retest. As a SM you're signing the blue card not as an approval or denial, but acknowledging that the adult association of the discussion has taken place.
  7. I think the fundamental activity of the BSA, which is working with and helping to form the character of young people, is an underlying reason why we continue to move forward. As long as we are believed to be doing a good job on this, we continue to have support. We cannot take that support for granted though. Local volunteers are the face of the BSA. People and parents know and like our local volunteers. They generally have good reason to trust them Another key attribute of the BSA which has led to survival is that it is a local organization. Local chartered organizations with l
  8. Tradition. There are a lot of people who were in scouting as a youth and want their kids in it to share the tradition. Americana. There are people drawn to it from the aspect that is iconic and part of the overall American experience. Oath & Law. People are drawn to the oath and law. There is a certain thing about wanting your kids practicing certain principals/ideals and being around other kids who are also practicing those principals and ideals. Outdoors. There are youth and adults who want their kids to learn outdoors skills.
  9. What is it about the BSA that has allowed it to survive? The BSA as a whole (from the unit through national levels) has processed significant challenges during the past thirty years. For purposes of this posting I include the discrimination lawsuits (Dale v. BSA, etc.), changes to membership standards, institution of YPT, youth abuse lawsuits, inclusion of girls in Cubs and Scouts, COVID, bankruptcy, establishment of the Summit and rebranding. It would seem impossible for a not-for-profit organization to survive such a combination – yet the BSA moves forward. What attributes of t
  10. This is going sideways fast. I don't want to lock this thread, so please, don't let this website ruin your day. In the meantime ... Doesn't it make anyone else wonder that if we're arguing over advancement that isn't being done and the scouts don't mind and don't care, that this is really just a huge waste of effort? It seems the adults care about the advancement a lot more than the scouts do. Just maybe that means advancement isn't doing what it was intended to do. Aren't all the methods supposed to be ways to motivate the scouts to participate and interact with each other so they l
  11. During COVID, we had no choice but to allow families to pick up and drop off. Since everything was within 90 minutes (usually 45 minutes or less, but that one day trip) we had a few issues, but they were workable. HOWEVER post COVID had a major trip, 6+ hours away. family was going to be in the area prior to us and afterwards, so the decision to let us meet and drop off and pick up was made. That was a mistake. We got to the meet up point about 30 minutes late due to an accident on the highway. Family was upset that we were late. When asked when to expect arrival for pick up, we told the
  12. If this works for your unit, then I say try it. It worked very well for us in Cub Scouts to have open campouts. Join us when your schedule allows so you don't have to write-off the entire weekend. If you have another obligation Friday night, but you can camp with us Saturday night, then join us late. Or if you don't have the personal gear or are unsure about camping out the entire night, make it a day camp and join us for activities. This works well with Cubs family camping, with parents providing transportation to/from camp and staying. Logistically, this sort of transportation arrangement fo
  13. Wise man once said, "OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING." ( The author of the 2010's edition misquoted him, he obviously didn't do the math). Scouting and sports are two completely separate programs, with completely different goals and objectives.
  14. Perhaps for Cub Scouts but absolutely not for Scouts BSA. Scouting isn't for everyone. If a kid doesn't like camping out two nights or wants a day camp experience perhaps just stick with travel indoor sports. Also, while adult leader meetings are a great time for adults to drink and eventually discuss the Troop, scout outings are not. As a parent who has kids in both travel sports and scouts, I find the fewer parents involved in scouting a major benefit. Let's not destroy scouting by taking everything that is bad with travel sports and applying it to Scouts BSA.
  15. To be a Merit Badge Counselor, you must be 18. A Summer Camp Counselor (staffer) is not a de facto Merit Badge Counselor. And ONLY registered Merit Badge Counselors may sign off requirements completions. You must have never read your Scout Handbook, any Merit Badge pamphlet, taken the Merit Badge Counselor training, or read the Guide to Advancement to have this all jumbled up.
  16. Yes? That do that with the counselor. That counselor may end up not being an adult. It is up to the council advancment committe (see other parts of the guide to advancement) to manage the quality of the summer camp mb program. I can assure you that about 90% of MBs am nation wide are taught by counselors under 18. Have you been to camp? Have you assured yourself and your scouts of quality instruction? I have. If you have, you’d know that the requirements are done with an MBC that is more likely than not under 18. You must be new to the program to have this all jumbled up.
  17. G2A "There must be attention to each individual’s projects and fulfillment of all requirements. We must know that every Scout—actually and personally—completed them. If, for example, a requirement uses words like “show,” “demonstrate,” or “discuss,” then every Scout must do that. It is unacceptable to award badges on the basis of sitting in classrooms watching demonstrations, or remaining silent during discussions. "
  18. ^^^ If I could upvote this twice, I would. It's probably the most concise explanation for why families choose youth sports over Scouting. Rather than try to compete with youth sports, Scouting just needs to acknowledge it's fundamentally different and position itself as a compliment or alternative. We might consider making the program more inviting by offering additional day camps or 1-night camping options. I find this preferable to an indoor program (or no program).
  19. Actually, that isn't true. If so, all counselors would need to be 18. They oversee quality control to make sure those that are teaching the MB are holding to the standards, but the adult is not expected to test each scout on each requirement. Just not part of the program or expectations.
  20. And, while most such weak or fudged things are not dangerous, in the case of swimming it can be. I had a real wake up on that. I had a boy do swimming for a week at camp and he received his approval and card. A month later, we went to the local Naval Base and used their pool. The Navy guy running the pool told them all to swim the length of the pool,thenfloat, so he could judge their skill levels. The boy I noted could not do it. Now if you completed the badge just a month prior you should have verified minimal skill in four strokes at least, plus float. When I confronted the boy he ad
  21. Sadly, it is more common than one might think at summer camps. And some camps are significantly worse than others. Part of the problem is the "counselors" are other scouts, albeit a few years older. This should not be allowed. Even if if was an adult who officially signed the card. The adult is supposed to have tested each scout on the requirements, not rely on a 15 year old CIT who "led a class". The merita badge mill summer camps are a stain on the entire process. Sadly BSA doesn't just turn a blind eye, it appears they actively encourage it.
  22. Yesterday
  23. This makes sense as it would allow a leader to say "yes, we have an RSO, we have a rifle instructor, and we are at a commercial range". Just like safe swim defense or climbing, they could confirm that they are setup to meet the requirements vs. just saying "well, these are guys who do shooting normally at district events, so they know best".
  24. When the Scout admits it. Your example of a Scout admitting they didn't read the requirements is a pretty poor judge if they did them or not. If swimming merit badge at camp covers certain requirements each day, the counselor tracks completion, and when done, done. There isn't a requirement for the Scout to read the requirements, just do them. And it should be rare. Rare. Not a regular occurrence. It sounds like for your unit, this was a regular occurrence. Your sense of righteousness seems strong. Again "Just as we avoid penalizing Scouts for the mistakes of adults, it should be a rare
  25. Today there was a more detailed interview with photos by KSL. Shad Stevens is an Eagle Scouts: “I grew up in it. I was a very young Eagle Scout. It was my life as a young man. I got my Eagle Scout when I was 13 years old and then I served in Order of the Arrow and with other organizations, served on junior leadership training camps and a lot as a young man,” Stevens said. “Then after I got married and came back, I immediately became a scoutmaster and served in scouting for 20 years as a scout leader in one capacity or another.” “Last year and my wife and I went up and toured it and
  26. I hope this works too. Keep these camps teaching adventure to youth. It's too important to lose.
  27. LOL, "arm chair", for real? Climbing, caving, boating, swimming not risky? I would venture to say each one of those has far more injuries and deaths in Scouting than range sports. Have you taken those trainings? Supervision is not expertise... The trainings are not there to have the unit leader be the subject matter expert for the event. They are there to inform Scout leaders, "If you want to have this type of event for your unit, here are the points which must be observed..." Take Climb On Safely, for example... The training in no way qualifies a unit leader to take a unit o
  28. Again. Bugling MB... Scout attempts to play the call(s). After each attempt, he asks, "Did that pass?" When I ask, "what do you think?" He responds, "mmmaybe not(sheepish grin)""... We part company with a partial, but I do not hear from him again.... It's the high G that get's 'em. But I insist I hear SOMETHING approximating the call as we both hear it on my ancient CD . Three brothers arrive with new "Hunting Horns", also seen online as a "Cavalry Horn" ( the short little ones , not a "real" bugle). I tell them, yes with expertise, the calls can be made on these horns
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    • Well, the  parents would be right. The average kid is far safer from sexual abuse in sports than the average kid in scouting. Sexual abuse of children is a society wide problem in any setting where adults have access to kids, but a kid on a soccer field for two hours in public view is far safer than a kid on a campground overnight in a remote location with unrelated adults. Studies like this highlight our problems with CSA but have little bearing on BSA's experiences and track record with it. 
    • I'm salivating waiting for this. It's going to exactly like climb on safely! A legal chokehold that elevates national from liability and voiding the indemnification clause for leaders who do not have the training and experience an incident. This is directly from climb on safely. "The adult supervisor works cooperatively with the climbing instructor and is responsible for all matters outside of the climbing/rappelling activity. " Climb on safely is not a training course in climbing. Contrary to popular belief it's a sideways acknowledgment from the leader who takes it that if BSA policies are not followed, they get hung out to dry. For the leaders that don't take it, things are just as bad. Ignorance is not a legal defense to liability in court. 
    • The sporting thing; there's an aspect of this compare and contrast that is not being discussed.  https://childusa.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Five-Key-Findings-from-the-EAS-7.9.2021-Updated.pdf#:~:text=18.3% (nearly 1 in 5) of elite athletes,minor by a sport official or peer athlete. Because of the decentralized nature of sports, schools, clubs, etc ... there's no great big target with a big pocket of money (when comparing to BSA). So for 30 years there are local discussion when a pedo coach or physically abusive coach or exclusionary club gets caught doing the wrong thing; however, there has never been a national discussion about this. Contrast that with national media constantly on BSA about the lawsuits, accusations, and most recently the settlement and bankruptcy. Perception is reality; some parents falsely think their kids are safer in sports.
    • Lot of wrong information about that second discussion with the SM about the MB. Page 41 of the GTA states that the 2nd discussion with the SM is supposed to be about the scouts experience, not a retest. As a SM you're signing the blue card not as an approval or denial, but acknowledging that the adult association of the discussion has taken place. 
    • I think the fundamental activity of the BSA, which is working with and helping to form the character of young people, is an underlying reason why we continue to move forward.  As long as we are believed to be doing a good job on this, we continue to have support.  We cannot take that support for granted though. Local volunteers are the face of the BSA.  People and parents know and like our local volunteers.  They generally have good reason to trust them Another key attribute of the BSA which has led to survival is that it is a local organization.  Local chartered organizations with local chartered organization executives who support us, local volunteer supervisory structures and visible local activities.  When difficult things happen to organizations that are distant, lines of support are easily cut.  Not so when your next-door neighbors are involved. The BSA has been comparatively inexpensive as a youth activity.  It is easier to justify continued involvement with an organization that is a good bargain. Generations of family tradition of involvement and engagement have helped the BSA to survive its most difficult times.
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