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Chapter 11 Announced - Part 7 - Plan 5.0 - Voting/Confirmation


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2 hours ago, Zebra132 said:

The nine TCC members receive no compensation and would probably like to move along with their personal lives. They are strictly volunteers.

You've probably said before.  Are any of the nine also members of the law firms working the case?   Are any of the nine TCC members lawyers?

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As the time that a vote total approaches, I encourage everyone to repeat the Scout Oath and Law several times to remind us how to treat one another.  There are victims here who wish for the plan

I just finished reading Bates' report.  Now I have a headache.  It's well-written, but a bunch of spin.  So we're too old to deserve a decent settlement?  While I get the sol issue, if a suit is valid

66% is the threshold for a bankruptcy.  However, WSJ was reporting even BSA admitted they needed 75% which they didn't reach.  There are two issues that the 73% causes. One will be with Silverste

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6 minutes ago, fred8033 said:

You've probably said before.  Are any of the nine also members of the law firms working the case?   Are any of the nine TCC members lawyers?

I know that none of the nine are members of the are members of the firm working the case and have never heard that any of the nine are Lawyers.

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2 minutes ago, johnsch322 said:

I know that none of the nine are members of the are members of the firm working the case and have never heard that any of the nine are Lauyers.

Thank you.  :)

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14 hours ago, fred8033 said:

Sounds like a legal mad tweeter ad.  :)

#1  It is far from inevitable this will become a chapter 7.  The only driving force I see is few interested in true mediation.  It really seems many want to drive failure of the bankruptcy proceedings.  

#2  A BSA bankruptcy czar would not automatically be able to go after LC assets as they are separate companies.  A court would need to rule that all these "franchised"  You are looking at years of legal cases to make that happen and it is far, far from guaranteed. 

#3  It is very conceivable that a chapter 7 would result in less money for victims because of the order of debt that is paid.  

Sounds like wishful thinking, trying to keep a failed organization afloat. One that has caused irreparable harm to myself and thousands of other men. This proceeding has been like being raped all over again. Specifically because of the actions of the BSA itself, their insurers and these lawyers as well, paying lip service to what we went through, while greedily exploiting us for their own gain. In my opinion, the organization is fascistic and it's founder was a rabid woman hater and possible pedophile himself. I could regale you with the story of my life after the abuse, how if affected me and still does to this very day. The mistrust. The isolation. The self-sabotage. The complete loss of self-esteem. The nightmares. But who cares, right? Not the BSA. By their own actions in this proceeding is how I judge them.

Hey, did you know that besides being raped by several of my Scouting leaders when I was a child in the late 60s, early 70s, I also had to endure a weekly ritual at Scouting meetings? If you "misbehaved" during the meeting, you had to run "the gauntlet" at meetings end. Where your fellow sadistic boy scouts pals stood in a long line and whipped you with their tough boy scout belts as you ran by. The scout leaders in my troop made sure you took off your shirt off first too. And that is what finally saved me from the abuse and torture; coming home with welts and bruises on my back and legs from the gauntlet whippings and my mother finally removing me from Scouting. Not the sexual abuse, which I was too ashamed and afraid to tell my mother about. You know the whippings were to instill some manhood in you, just to toughen you up. Get you ready for life. To be a good solider later on. So you eventually could become cannon fodder for the wars for profit mobsters

Don't tell me about the good the BSA does. My life isn't a crack for decency and humanity to fall through. But to the BSA, it is. And they've left me and thousands of others behind and they wish we would just go off somewhere and die. Not because of their words. The lip service. But by their very actions in this bankruptcy proceeding.

rs-148351-thehurting-tearsforfears-386-254-1362768046.jpg

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So I think at this point the BSA needs to ask one simple question.

What will it take to get a plan passed and survive as an organization?

Ask the TCC, DOJ, churches and all other hold outs. It will take an open checkbook for more money from LC and insurance companies for sure.

Or do we continue to fight in court until we run out of money.

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16 minutes ago, IWasAbusedinScouting said:

But who cares, right?

I care. 

There is no punishment I can think of that would fit the criminals who hurt you.  And, BSA engaged in, and continues to engage in, despicable practices in dealing with this. 

There is no final healing for those of us who bear the psychological scars of abuse.  We carry them always.  I'm reminded of mine often, and you endured far worse than I, and live with yours daily, as well.

I offer you my tearful empathy, and an admonition that we survivors can help prevent this from happening to others.

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Just now, 1980Scouter said:

So I think at this point the BSA needs to ask one simple question.

What will it take to get a plan passed and survive as an organization?

Ask the TCC, DOJ, churches and all other hold outs. It will take an open checkbook for more money from LC and insurance companies for sure.

Or do we continue to fight in court until we run out of money.

Speaking as a victim of Boy Scout sexual abuse, and a hold out debtor in the bankruptcy proceedings, I would gladly take ZERO dollars in compensation for what I went through, if it meant the BSA dissolves and is never allowed to reform as it currently exists. And for the national leaders to be held accountable for what they did and continue to do to survivors of their organizations rampant sexual abuse over time, of children under their care. Asking for only one sexual abuse survivor on their board that has so many members on it is just more proof that the people running the national office are only interested in protecting their corporate fiefdom. DECENCY isn't negotiated in front of a judges bench. They should have came to the bench with their decency in hand, on paper. Instead, they thrown crumbs at the problem and wonder why many people see them as unethical and inhumane.

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24 minutes ago, IWasAbusedinScouting said:

Don't tell me about the good the BSA does. My life isn't a crack for decency and humanity to fall through. But to the BSA, it is. And they've left me and thousands of others behind and they wish we would just go off somewhere and die. Not because of their words. The lip service. But by their very actions in this bankruptcy proceeding.

 

First, I have to say no child should go through what you went through.  Any part the BSA played in that is wrong and a failure of the organization.  Abuse like what you describe is unimaginable to me and as a father, would be devastating to an entire family.  You have my complete sympathy.

My only defense of the BSA, in terms of their actions in bankruptcy, is that bankruptcy is a horrible way to address child sex abuse liability.  I know they chose this path and perhaps financially that was the correct option for the BSA.  I think as a current scouter, I can ensure my Troop follows all barriers to abuse rules and keeps an eye on all adult leaders to protect our youth as much as possible.  In addition, I can pressure BSA to be a leader in methods to prevent abuse going forward.  I am not an expert in that area, but would encourage BSA to fully accept input from outside experts while still maintaining the key elements of the program.  Finally, every leader (either on this forum or elsewhere) has spent countless hours mentoring youth using the methods of scouting (which do not include any sort of the abuse you experienced) to help young boys mature and grow into outstanding citizens.  Many of us will debate specifics, politics, religion and other aspects of the program, but all have the same heart and a common interest in helping youth.

I expect none of this could provide much comfort given what you went through.  I can never know how I would have reacted to such abuse, but expect it wouldn't be far from your comments.  I do hope, in the end, some good can be salvaged from this ugly bankruptcy process and I wish you some solace going forward.

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1 minute ago, InquisitiveScouter said:

I care. 

There is no punishment I can think of that would fit the criminals who hurt you.  And, BSA engaged in, and continues to engage in, despicable practices in dealing with this. 

There is no final healing for those of us who bear the psychological scars of abuse.  We carry them always.  I'm reminded of mine often, and you endured far worse than I, and live with yours daily, as well.

I offer you my tearful empathy, and an admonition that we survivors can help prevent this from happening to others.

Thank you. I appreciate that and acknowledge your life experience as well. Peace.

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Just now, Eagle1993 said:

First, I have to say no child should go through what you went through.  Any part the BSA played in that is wrong and a failure of the organization.  Abuse like what you describe is unimaginable to me and as a father, would be devastating to an entire family.  You have my complete sympathy.

My only defense of the BSA, in terms of their actions in bankruptcy, is that bankruptcy is a horrible way to address child sex abuse liability.  I know they chose this path and perhaps financially that was the correct option for the BSA.  I think as a current scouter, I can ensure my Troop follows all barriers to abuse rules and keeps an eye on all adult leaders to protect our youth as much as possible.  In addition, I can pressure BSA to be a leader in methods to prevent abuse going forward.  I am not an expert in that area, but would encourage BSA to fully accept input from outside experts while still maintaining the key elements of the program.  Finally, every leader (either on this forum or elsewhere) has spent countless hours mentoring youth using the methods of scouting (which do not include any sort of the abuse you experienced) to help young boys mature and grow into outstanding citizens.  Many of us will debate specifics, politics, religion and other aspects of the program, but all have the same heart and a common interest in helping youth.

I expect none of this could provide much comfort given what you went through.  I can never know how I would have reacted to such abuse, but expect it wouldn't be far from your comments.  I do hope, in the end, some good can be salvaged from this ugly bankruptcy process and I wish you some solace going forward.

 

"My only defense of the BSA, in terms of their actions in bankruptcy, is that bankruptcy is a horrible way to address child sex abuse liability."

To me, it isn't about the venue so much as it is about the coverup and denial, which in of itself allowed for the sexual abuse of boys to continue.

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7 minutes ago, IWasAbusedinScouting said:

To me, it isn't about the venue so much as it is about the coverup and denial, which in of itself allowed for the sexual abuse of boys to continue.

I agree in transparency in reporting and I hope that is part of any settlement.  It will be helpful to show this for every council/region.  Lack of any youth protection failures would be a red flag as much as excessive ones. 

I also think BSA should release all of their files.  They have already done that in other cases (such as in Oregon) and hiding these files seems to cause concern/pain in the abused.  Given that, they should release these files to put to bed any remaining debate over what they may contain.

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10 minutes ago, Eagle1993 said:

First, I have to say no child should go through what you went through.  Any part the BSA played in that is wrong and a failure of the organization.  Abuse like what you describe is unimaginable to me and as a father, would be devastating to an entire family.  You have my complete sympathy.

My only defense of the BSA, in terms of their actions in bankruptcy, is that bankruptcy is a horrible way to address child sex abuse liability.  I know they chose this path and perhaps financially that was the correct option for the BSA.  I think as a current scouter, I can ensure my Troop follows all barriers to abuse rules and keeps an eye on all adult leaders to protect our youth as much as possible.  In addition, I can pressure BSA to be a leader in methods to prevent abuse going forward.  I am not an expert in that area, but would encourage BSA to fully accept input from outside experts while still maintaining the key elements of the program.  Finally, every leader (either on this forum or elsewhere) has spent countless hours mentoring youth using the methods of scouting (which do not include any sort of the abuse you experienced) to help young boys mature and grow into outstanding citizens.  Many of us will debate specifics, politics, religion and other aspects of the program, but all have the same heart and a common interest in helping youth.

I expect none of this could provide much comfort given what you went through.  I can never know how I would have reacted to such abuse, but expect it wouldn't be far from your comments.  I do hope, in the end, some good can be salvaged from this ugly bankruptcy process and I wish you some solace going forward.

I'll give you a good example in my mind, of the disconnect with reality. Happening right here, right now, on this very forum. Apparently, the post response I made to the erroneous Bill Gates photo was removed? How can a group like yours move forward and claim to be about decency and humanity, when a sitting board member of the BSA is a war criminal? Robert Gates has blood on his hands. The blood of innocents. Do the innocent dead in Iraq mean nothing to the person that removed my reply? EVERYTHING going wrong with our country today, is a direct result of this lie that took us to war and took so many lives. Over oil. And defense contracts. We have failed to teach our children that war is a racket and a scam and is detrimental to all life on our precious and  fragile planet. Certainly this is just like hiding the Perversion files from the public. I have to go now. Won't be back to reply for awhile, as I contemplate and investigate further what this organization is teaching our children today.

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2 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

Yes, your post misidentifying Bill (Microsoft) Gates as a board member was removed.

And the second photo of Bill Gates with Jeffrey Epstein was definitely faked...you were right to remove the post.

But there are other real photos of the two together, just saying 😜

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