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NEED HELP!!!! Unjustified conflict between leaders and scouters


ChristianB

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I came here seeking some advice from other scout leaders. We have two brothers in our troop that have recently been receiving harsher treatment from some of our adult leadership. There is some jealousy of them and some hard feelings towards their father. They have been put down and made to feel inadequate by these leaders. 90% of the time every one gets along just fine and the scouts and their parents are very active in the troop.
They have now decided that leaving the troop and going to another one is their best option. Again I think having them in the troop benefits everyone and them as scouters as well. 

without causing a great disturbance in the troop I don’t know how to approach this topic with our committee or our council.
I as a leader in this troop feel like these scouts and their parents have been done a disservice by the leaders who have jealousy towards them. 
 

also all adult parties are in a leader roll both on the scout side and on the committee side

Edited by ChristianB
Changed title to a more accurate wording
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58 minutes ago, ChristianB said:

I came here seeking some advice from other scout leaders. We have two brothers in our troop that have recently been receiving harsher treatment from some of our adult leadership.

What do you mean by "harsh treatment"? If is approaches harassment, hazing, or discipline that exceeds what is allowed under Youth Protection Training then you need to contact your Scout Executive immediately.

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I'm confused on why a Scouter (adult) would be jealous of a Scout.  Seems that the adult has forgotten that the entire point of this organization is service to youth.  Perhaps remind the Scouter of his duty to exemplify the Scout Oath and Law as a role model for the Scouts.  

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The good news is the scouts are sticking with scouting instead of leaving scouting for good. I too would like to know how these two scouts were treated differently than the other scouts. If the adult leaders are adding to the advancement requirements to make it harder for these two scouts to advance, then your COR must address the issue. On the other hand, if the parents are all about the Eagle Rank and they expect the troop to be centered their advancement, then it might be good that they left. 

I would meet with the COR and Committee chair of your troop and convey to them that you are bothered that these two scouts left. If this happened in my troop, I would be, as scoutmaster, evaluating my actions that could have caused scouts to leave. If I am doing something wrong, I would work to fix it. If I am expected to change the aims of scouting, then I have to let them go. 

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This looks like a people problem to me. Giving us the details is likely not going to lead to anything because we aren't the people involved. Rather, the people involved need to get together in a non confrontational way and talk. There are always two sides to these types of problems and the real question is how to get both sides to see the other's views. Scoutmasters do not think they are doing something wrong when they do it so that's one hurdle. A lot of parents are going to defend their kid first. This is natural and can also be a hurdle. It really depends on the personalities involved. Hopefully it's an honest mistake and this will be a 10 minute conversation. Unfortunately it might be much worse.

You don't mention whether the SM is in the middle of this. If not, I'd start there. If so, all I can say is bring it up with the committee chair. Do your best and hope for the same. At the same time, sometimes scouts need to leave.

Good luck.

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3 hours ago, DuctTape said:

Welcome.

You mentioned being a leader. What is your specific position?

 

2 hours ago, Armymutt said:

I'm confused on why a Scouter (adult) would be jealous of a Scout.  Seems that the adult has forgotten that the entire point of this organization is service to youth.  Perhaps remind the Scouter of his duty to exemplify the Scout Oath and Law as a role model for the Scouts.  

 

2 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said:

The good news is the scouts are sticking with scouting instead of leaving scouting for good. I too would like to know how these two scouts were treated differently than the other scouts. If the adult leaders are adding to the advancement requirements to make it harder for these two scouts to advance, then your COR must address the issue. On the other hand, if the parents are all about the Eagle Rank and they expect the troop to be centered their advancement, then it might be good that they left. 

 

1 hour ago, MattR said:

You don't mention whether the SM is in the middle of this. If not, I'd start there. If so, all I can say is bring it up with the committee chair. Do your best and hope for the same. At the same time, sometimes scouts need to leave.

Good luck.


My position is Assistant scoutmaster 

Just some background information. The scouts that I mentioned have been in the troop for almost 4 years and are very motivated scouts. Since the time that they joined they have gone the extra mile and have invested extra time outside of scouts to complete requirements that can be done on their own and don’t require group learning. 
One of the scout leaders that has been giving them a hard time is our Advancement Chair and doesn’t like that these scouts are about to pass up his son (that is 2 years older) in rank and has been holding these two scouts to the letter as others are given more leeway when it comes to completing requirements 

About a year ago the Father of these scouts became our Scout Master after our previous one retired. This is where the jealousy comes into play. 
 

Another one of the leaders that doesn’t like them is our Finance Chair, She doesn’t like them because she wants her son to receive special treatment no matter what because her son is diabetic. This is always factored into everything and her son is held to the same standards as the rest of the scouts with consideration to his health. But she wants everything made easier for him no matter what.

Their father is a terrific scout master, I have been in scouting almost my whole life and have experienced many different scout masters. 

These adults and a couple others in the troop didn’t like it that he became our scout master.
 

These scouts have never been given an easy path to fallow, they work their hardest and their hard work shows. The rest of the troop loves having these scouts involved and they love the troop over all as well. Everyone would love them to stay but these few individuals are making them feel unwanted. 
 

like was mentioned I know this is something that needs to be handled between the parents involved but with so many of the participants being in leader roles makes it difficult, the other thing too is I’m only in my mid 20’s and although I have a lot of Valuable experience and have been through similar situations, I’m not taken very seriously and am quite easily dismissed. 

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First of all, the "Advancement Chair" is just a member of the Committee.  He/she does not get to be the gatekeeper to decide who advances and who doesn't.  Their job is to handle the paperwork.  Approving advancement is the Scoutmaster's job, and then the Board of Review consisting of 3 committee members.  A BOR is NOT a retest of requirements.  If it's signed off, it's considered completed.  Period.  Sounds to me like everyone needs refresher training.  Now, to the more serious point....what you have described to us in your original post is the definition of bulllying.  This requires a mandatory report to the Scout Executive or to the YP hotline.  IF it is as you described...

 

 

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Sounds like the SM is being run over. Talk to him.

Also, the fact that you're in your mid 20's is not something that anyone will look down on. Don't doubt yourself. In fact, we have our own 20 somethings on this forum and my guess is they''ll chime in soon enough.

One thing you can do is talk to these scouts and their parents. Just let them know you're concerned. That will help them a lot. Due to your status as a younger adult those scouts are going to connect to you much more easily than a parent. If this family likes the SM then that's a good reason to stick around. If you can get the parents and the SM together so that everyone knows what's going on that could really help.

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7 minutes ago, MattR said:

Sounds like the SM is being run over. Talk to him.

Also, the fact that you're in your mid 20's is not something that anyone will look down on. Don't doubt yourself. In fact, we have our own 20 somethings on this forum and my guess is they''ll chime in soon enough.

One thing you can do is talk to these scouts and their parents. Just let them know you're concerned. That will help them a lot. Due to your status as a younger adult those scouts are going to connect to you much more easily than a parent. If this family likes the SM then that's a good reason to stick around. If you can get the parents and the SM together so that everyone knows what's going on that could really help.

These kids father is our Scout Master. They don’t want to leave but feel that these few individuals are set in stone against them. Conversations have been had between all parties but where everyone is so tense with each other nothing has improved.

I wish to help improve the situation as this family is planing on leaving but even though other leaders agree that this family has been treated unfairly I will be standing on my own in any course of action I feel is necessary. 

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1 hour ago, scoutldr said:

what you have described to us in your original post is the definition of bulllying.  This requires a mandatory report to the Scout Executive or to the YP hotline.  IF it is as you described...

I just want to repeat and reiterate what was stated here and what I posted; if (and I mean IF) the harassment you are describing is accurate it reaches the point of a YP violation. If you are a registered adult leader, you are obligated to report it up to the Scout Executive.

Edited by CynicalScouter
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1 hour ago, ChristianB said:

My position is Assistant scoutmaster 

This makes it easy for me to give you my first piece of advice.  Support your scoutmaster.  That's the job of the ASM.  

My second bit of advice is to not do anything that is not part of your job description.  Let the other people make their own decisions.  Let the kids decide which unit they want to be in.  Let the committee set the unit policies.  Let the COR deal with the council.  

 

 

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6 minutes ago, CynicalScouter said:

If you are a registered adult leader, you are obligated to report it up to the Scout Executive.

The father is the scoutmaster.  He shouldn't need anybody's help in reporting a YP violation to the council.

 

Edited by David CO
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4 minutes ago, David CO said:

The father is the scoutmaster.  He should need anybody's help in reporting it to the council.

Doesn't matter. If an adult observes what they believe to be harassment or bullying, they are obligated as a BSA mandatory reporter to report it up.

Quote

Reporting Violations of BSA Youth Protection Policies

If you think any of the BSA’s Youth Protection policies have been violated, including those described within Scouting’s Barriers to Abuse, you must notify your local council Scout executive or his/her designee so appropriate action can be taken for the safety of our Scouts.

 

Edited by CynicalScouter
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